I never bought into the Ramtha be all. My passion was the disciplines, and I still acknowledge that the TANK experience is my most favorite adventure/training. Candle focus and C&E still calms my brain so that I can make better descisions in life; much like othe NLP methods. My mathematical background still intrigues me to somewhat master the cards with a blank card on top; but a science experiment is still an experiment. I thank RSE for this training; and I am grateful for RSE to ignite my passion for Math and Science again. I don't need RSE for that anymore. I do love TED.com
I tried really hard (struggled) in buying into "Ramtha be all" experience. I am not on a tight budget, so I purchased every CD, DVD, etc. I flew to RSE 4-5 times a year for events. I owned a big tent and a trailer. And most important, I paid $5,000 to attend the first Ramtha Feast; I wanted to see Ramtha up close and personal and decide once and for all if Ramtha was real; 'cause I had many facts (doubts). But the one thing that blew my mind was JZ/Ramtha presence and eye contact. (I am no slouch with engaging with powerful people; I meet with world leaders all the time; for almost a decade).
The FEAST: Ramtha greeted my eye to eye; hand to hand. My eyes almost popped out of my head and I hardly remember a thing; amazing experince/moment. Then as we walked to the dinner Feast, I could not comprehend what happened to me. Now for the next 9 hours, I came to my logical senses and realized this was all BS, and I was surrounded by people who were just pretending to be into it ... but all secretly knew it was BS as well. There were a few teachesr there; and their eyes said it all. One teacher had the look like he knew it was BS. Another teacher was snapping out of it just like I was. Some other students just stopped caring. And a handful of students were very much emotionally into it; but talking to them afterwards they were hardcore into their own self-importance and loved to believe that they were the chosen ones. "Self Importance" is the key and the trick to get people to buy into "Ramtha be all".
(A year earlier) Reading cards was the "Self Importance" hook that caught the school in a massive wave. I was one of the first guys on stage that "read" the cards. I actually wrote the step-by-step method on how to read the cards that went went "viral" on email. The best way to get emails to go viral was that I told a few people not to share this important knowledge. Within weeks ... hundreds of student read my instruction sheet on how to read the fabric on the back of cards and the easiest way to organize and memorize them. (Same method in Engineering and Mathematics). So where does "Self Importance" come in? The first 50 students that read the cards on stage each gave a 20 minute speech on how important they are. One lady went on the local news (another country) to demonstrate her great skill. Mike Wright was dissapointed JZ would not allow him to do it on youtube. I felt like a total asshole after I did my thing on stage; and oddly enough I got more mad when many women wanted to seduce me.
The final line was crossed when JZ/Ramtha proclaimed that Japan was going to sink and that all Japanese students must pick up and move to Yelm. I justified in my head that is one thing to teach Sovereignty, being self-sufficient, and storing food and water; I do think this is wise advice on many levels. But to piggy back a major disaster in Japan with a horific proclamation that the whole country is going to sink ... that is beyond unprofessional. How does one even analyze such advice? You'd have to be 100% certain the advice was coming from the most powerful enlightened master to stay and participate in the school. I do not fit into that demographic, so now I am back riding solo. The spiritual path is an alone journey. Thank God.
I thank this webpage for pointed out that Vera Stanley Alder's books are the books JZ plagiarised; that was the magic bullet that centered my heart.
and thank you for sharing your story.
An enjoyable read. You seem to have gone through rse without greater emotional or financial damage.... Good for you.
When you describe the experience of your first personal encounter, I was reminded of my own similiary strong reaction.
The 2nd time it was still intense ... The 3rd time it was less intense but more scary. Then in the end it was completely gone.
I wondered for quite some time how these initial reactions can be understood.
Was the experience genuine, made up or manipulated?
After reading and watching some Derren Brown's videos I've learned that we can be manipulated to have such strong physical and psychological reactions and I believe that this is what happens when we meet eye to eye with a supposed master.... We are suceptible, wide open, ready to experience something special and a skillfull handler is able to deliver.
I'd love to hear how you explained to yourself this strong reaction just to figure out the BS shortly after.
So this lead to my confusion.
One one hand RSE had greatness at the school: disciplines, intro to pseudo science, thinking outside the box, being self sufficient in life, and attaining unemotional power for ourselves. A one-of-a-kind institution.
However, the other side was constant garbage of conspiracy theory, untrusting your fellow man, selling crap overpriced vitamins, making up catastrophies so people move to Yelm, scaring people, unsafe environment for young women (under 18), lies about science testing JZ, and my personal favorite(s) of the CIA and NASA not wanting us to master the disciplines so that they can keep the power to themselves.
So to answer your question, I don't think its just the setup that gets us hooked. I think Judith has power; I think she uses in improperly; and to make matters worse ... there are now people less powerful raking in all the easy cash (Oprah, The Secret, etc); and JZ is jelous 'cause her overall business model is a cult-ish mess.
I agree that JZ has a powerful and charismatic character. For sure one has to have an impressing personality to apply ones power on people.
The linked videos ('The so called Messiah') display very vividly what we are discussing here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ02I6Qy ... ure=relmfu
I agree that people who spend that much money (on a feast) tend to whitewash the experience.
I translated the last european feast and was wondering how the participating/paying students felt about it.
IMO the evening was a complete mess...
After some drinking the insults started. Some people have been verbally attacked and worn out....
What to say? These people showed up again at the next event..... and the contradicting, nonsensical stuff that was said they justified with some very fanciful explanations
Get your feet under you, your critical thinking restored, educate yourself on red flags of cult like behavior (which it seems like you are doing all of this already) then TRUST yourself. Get some friends and share your beliefs and question them. A good place to continue to search and not spend your money while you are doing it. You are a Science guy, great..stick with that for awhile, there is much to learn about our universe just in Science. Question the science, see where it falls down. This is just advice from someone being very careful before I step back out into the "whats it all about" seeking. I also think it's okay if we don't get all the answers NOW. I mean how could? We can't even comprehend most of the KNOWN universe let alone the unknown.
So glad you are here Eddie. You are amongst people who understand exactly where you are right now.
What was it that you could see made the other teachers wake up?
What happens during a dinner? What food is there, do you have to bring your own?
9 hours of what? Just the "Ramtha" character talking, was she asking questions? Were people asking questions? Anything like new revelations or secret knowledge taught? Who were the teachers you thought for sure woke up? Any new predictions?
I love how you say you fell for the story that The CIA didnt want us to have the remote viewing power.
I did real remote viewing, and its nothing like they do at the school.
They get a bunch of people blindfolded and say, " Now draw a famous landmark" and if someone draws Big Ben THEY GOT IT. They are psychic. That is not how remote viewing works at all. ''Pick a farm animal" is not remote viewing.
They get a bunch of people blindfolded and say, " Now draw a famous landmark" and if someone draws Big Ben THEY GOT IT. They are psychic. That is not how remote viewing works at all. ''Pick a farm animal" is not remote viewing.[/quote]
Vanilla, who says that the ability to "remote view" exists at all? To my mind, what you are presenting is as much 'hoo-hoo' as anything that Ramtha presents. Please clarify.
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Thank you for your post..Eddie, ex, Kelku, Virginia, WofthesunEofthemoon and dear Vanilla.
As a moderator...I think its important to clarify something here and to help this thread stay on topic.
I understand your concern WofthesunEofthemoon.... I don't believe in "remote viewing" either, nor does Vanilla .
But even if some of our posters believed in 'remote viewing' EMF is not about to slam them because of that.
Perhaps a new thread to respectfully debate this subject would be interesting for some.
But knocking down someones ('hoo-hoo').. is black hole territory on EMF...as One mans 'Religious Faith' may be another mans 'Woo-woo'!
and neither means cultic abuse is taking place.
We do encourage exploring other groups / religions that have cultic abuse taking place,
and yes.. you can guarantee a huge dose of cleaver / religious seductive Woo-woo is being used to undermine critical thinking within these churches / organizations.
But lets keep our focus directly on exposing the abuse, coverups and ways of healing from RSE and other cults.
Otherwise we will fall into the same trap as with Joe's Catholic church cult thread when all hell breaks loose when someones translates our exploring cultic abuse withing a religions faith/ organization who then feels an attack is being made on their cherished religion.
My RSE Experience & Red Flags....anyone?
When I read The Weinberg/Knight white book, Ramtha, I found the inacuracies of everyday science such as in the book's description of the relationship of energy versus wavelengh of electromagnetic radiation rather off-putting. It certainly calls in to question how carefully anything in the book has been understood and documented (i.e., if there were a Ramtha, then how well captured was the entity's teaching?). (No, I don't believe there is a Ramtha.)
There were 50 people (or less) at the Feast. We ate for a bit while "Ramtha" rambled on. Then there was the opprotunity to ask the master teacher a question. For those people that asked questions that were based on "Fear" or a type of "Rambling" thoughtless question ... it was in the element of JZ to deliver an entertaining and charismatic answer as she weaves in a delightful story.
Though when a person asked an intelligent question based on critical thinking, you can clearly see the struggle and lousy sales job of JZ; she would twist around and bring up a story that would trigger fear or get someone's adreniline going.
So we ate great food, drank lovely wine, and listened to BS. The BS I heard at the Feast were the core of the teachings for the next 6 months. It was informative to see a con at work to work her illusionary craft.
Basically it is the same as being part of a drunken wine teaching just more lightening (your purse).
The food is included but people have to bring their own wine which, IMO, is ridiculous if you consider the price (5.000 $). Plus it really looks bad when people wear formal dresses and carry a plastic bag with clinking wine bottles. The staff at the noble italian palazzo looked at least startled when our group came in... lol.
People desperately tried to ask personal questions which was denied by Scamtha for a while until s/he gave in... then the answers were featureless or abusive.
The personal interaction mostly displayed that night, was Scamtha picking some people (only one side of the room) and rumpling up their hair really badly. So badly that my brain formed the mantra, "Don't you get close to me!"
After s/he had a decent amount of wine we (the translators) shared looks of inquiry quite often but maybe I was just too sober to grasp the meaning.
She also displayed a fit of rebellious juvenile behaviour by lightning a pipe in there which is strictly forbidden, of course, which made S. Klein nervous and me chuckle) ... later on somebody called the police and the music had to be turned down.
.... so business as usual except that Judith gets a nice paid vacation. I guess there were about 70 paying students. In Milan there were about 100...- very intimate indeed.
So if one was wild about getting dreadlocks designed by a drunken masterteacher the money was well invested.
If someone on the street would have come up to you and said Japan is going to fall into the ocean, aliens are going to fight for our future but don't take sides, there is a dark planet in our solar system that is going to wreak havoc, you need to live underground to survive the end days, you'd say "Dude, here's $5. Please leave me alone and seek medical attention. You're ill." Since you and most of us on this board somehow bought into the common denominator, all of the BS seemed plausible. It was a slow process from you're not reaching your potential to hoard food and live in an underground shelter to survive the end times but JZ shamefully directed many many people on that journey.
I digress. Thanks again for sharing Eddie and welcome to EMF.
I think most people on the outside could accept a story like yours and even justify the exhorbitant amount of
money spent, because your story sounds somewhat rational.
Your experience of meeting her in person so reminded me of the Darren Brown videos/tactics.
she claims her IQ goes up every year (160 last I heard she claimed), but pure NLP at its finest.
Thank you for posting. Truly fascinating.