JZK vs. Weaver: my Opinion

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David McCarthy
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JZK vs. Weaver: my Opinion

Unread post by David McCarthy » Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:23 pm

JZK vs. Weaver: my Opinion

The following is not an endorsement of any group or individual. It is a strongly held opinion that I feel I want to comment about; the lawsuit between JZ Knight and Whitewind Weaver.
The importance and ramifications of this case should not be under estimated.
This lawsuit filed against Whitewind Weaver and "Art of Life Coaching" by JZK is a blatant attack on everyone's spiritual liberty and freedom of speech.

If Knight is not stopped at this legal crossroad, then what we have witnessed for the past twenty years within her RSE organization; the deceptions, abuse and fear mongering, will far extend beyond the gates of RSE and Yelm.
Knight is attempting to squash individual rights to express spiritual values and practices; that?s called censorship, if not outright dictatorship.

Our rights and protections under the First Amendment guarantees our freedom of practicing our religions and free speech.
It was never intended to support tyrannical and corrupt religious organizations or ?spiritual corporations?,
or to hand them a free license to intimidate, harass, or crush another group or individual.

JZ Knight is a spiritual counterfeit, her RSE organization is no more than a greedy "for profit" corporation; a cult in my opinion. Yet, JZ Knight has cleverly camouflaged RSE, Inc. behind the very laws that are set in place to protect religious freedom.
Her lawsuit also serves to spread fear and control over anyone that dare makes a stand against her. In layman?s terms, this would be called bullying, however the effects of Knight getting away with this action, would be far more reaching.

This makes a mockery of the First Amendment of this country.
If we do not stand up for our rights, then others will soon stand upon them.

Please contact Chrysta Anderson if you can help them in any way.

David

**************************************

Chrysta Anderson,
Chrysta@ArtOfLifeCoaching.com

Phone: 360-709-9088
Toll Free: 866-686-8040
Fax: 360-364-0088

http://www.artoflifecoaching.com/contact.htm
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:38 pm

http://www.theolympian.com/southsound/story/579691.html

Attorney grills Knight about ex-student
By Keri Brenner | The Olympian ? Published September 10, 2008

Comments (5) Photos

OLYMPIA ? Yelm channeler JZ Knight testified Tuesday in court that she was so "disturbed" and "bothered" about reports that Rainier spiritual teacher Whitewind Weaver had "moved next door, taken my school's teachings, changed them around a little and then started teaching them" that she authorized a lawsuit against her.

"It wasn't anything I wanted to do," Knight, founder of the Ramtha School of Enlightenment, said during the second day of a civil jury trial in Thurston County Superior Court. "We usually tend to assume people are impeccable."

But Weaver's attorney, Robert Kilborne of San Diego, grilled Knight about how the channeler could have taken such strong legal action when Weaver had been so supportive of her and the school.

Weaver, founder of Lacey-based Art of Life Coaching Inc., sent a letter to her students in Oregon telling them she was moving to Washington to study at the Ramtha school, urged the students to do the same, and enrolled in more than $8,000 worth of classes, Kilborne said.

"If you were aware of all the facts, would you have still done what you did?" Kilborne asked Knight during intense cross-examination. "Why couldn't you have just called her (Weaver)?"

Knight, self-proclaimed channel of a 35,000-year-old male spirit warrior entity Ramtha, was the second witness in her case accusing Weaver of breach of contract in connection with a seminar Weaver taught in August 2006. Knight claims the seminar violated terms of a registration form Weaver signed that says teachings at the Ramtha school are for the students' personal use only and can not be disseminated or taught for commercial gain.

Weaver's attorneys deny the allegations.

Seattle attorney David Spellman, representing Weaver, pummelled school administrator Mike Wright during cross-examination in an effort to establish that the registration form was inconsistent from year-to-year and lacked specifics. Spellman tried, in particular, to show that the teachings seen by Knight as appropriated by Weaver could easily be items of public domain.

Knight's attorneys claim Weaver copied seven school processes, including Fieldwork, an exercise designed to improve the ability to focus attention and intuition by finding a symbolic card on a fence while blindfolded.

"Is 'Pin the Tail on the Donkey' focused attention?" Spellman asked Wright.

"It could be," Wright replied.

"So, then is it Fieldwork?" Spellman said.

"No, it's 'Pin the Tail on the Donkey,' " Wright said.

Knight, under direct examination by Tacoma attorney Rick Creatura, told the jury the fabled story of how Ramtha first appeared to her in 1977 on a Sunday afternoon in her kitchen in Tacoma. In visits during the ensuing years, Ramtha used Knight's body to speak at seminars, in books and on tapes around the world.

"He revealed that his plan was to teach people that God was within them and that every human being was divine," she said.

Kilborne, on cross-examination, was not impressed.

"Isn't it the flat truth that there is no Ramtha?" he asked.

"That is incorrect," said Knight, who hosted a conference of scientists at her school to investigate the Ramtha phenomenon. "And science proved in 1997 that Ramtha was not me."

The trial is expected to last through Thursday.

Keri Brenner covers Thurston County for The Olympian. She can be reached at 360-754-5435 or kbrenner@theolympian.com.

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:43 pm

Pin the Tail on the Donkey!!!

Bwhahahah!!! :lol: :lol:

California Dreamin'
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Unread post by California Dreamin' » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:46 pm

Would it be inappropriate to have the reporter, Keri Brenner, visit this website?


Keri Brenner covers Thurston County for The Olympian.
She can be reached at 360-754-5435
Or kbrenner@theolympian.com


So funny, the comparison with Pin the Tail on the Donkey?

Good thing JZR hasn't taken the blindfolded teachings to the level of "Pinata." :lol:

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:01 pm

Would it be inappropriate to have the reporter, Keri Brenner, visit this website?
she has visited this website along with several of us for an interview for several hours.
She TOTALLY left out a TON of information, let the story go for months before going to print,
and then follows up with a pro RSE story shortly after.

Either she or the Olympian do not want to stir up any waters, and if anything,
promotes RSE. They are NOT impartial at all in regards to "defectors" or ex students.

The best news people we have is the Nisqually Valley News. They do a thorough and diligent,
impartial job.

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:14 pm

told the jury the fabled story of how Ramtha first appeared
......

interesting choice of words.
I hope to god they have some normal people on that jury.

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Weaver's Attorney Interrogates Knight and Wright

Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:59 am

Attorney grills JZ Knight about ex-student
OLYMPIA ? Yelm channeler JZ Knight testified Tuesday in court that she was so "disturbed" and "bothered" about reports that Rainier spiritual teacher Whitewind Weaver had "moved next door, taken my school's teachings, changed them around a little and then started teaching them" that she authorized a lawsuit against her.

By Keri Brenner

The Olympian

OLYMPIA ? Yelm channeler JZ Knight testified Tuesday in court that she was so "disturbed" and "bothered" about reports that Rainier spiritual teacher Whitewind Weaver had "moved next door, taken my school's teachings, changed them around a little and then started teaching them" that she authorized a lawsuit against her.

"It wasn't anything I wanted to do," Knight, founder of the Ramtha School of Enlightenment, said during the second day of a civil jury trial in Thurston County Superior Court. "We usually tend to assume people are impeccable."

But Weaver's attorney, Robert Kilborne of San Diego, grilled Knight about how the channeler could have taken such strong legal action when Weaver had been so supportive of her and the school.

Weaver, founder of Lacey-based Art of Life Coaching Inc., sent a letter to her students in Oregon telling them she was moving to Washington to study at the Ramtha school, urged the students to do the same, and enrolled in more than $8,000 worth of classes, Kilborne said.

"If you were aware of all the facts, would you have still done what you did?" Kilborne asked Knight during intense cross-examination. "Why couldn't you have just called her (Weaver)?"

Knight, self-proclaimed channel of a 35,000-year-old male spirit warrior entity Ramtha, was the second witness in her case accusing Weaver of breach of contract in connection with a seminar Weaver taught in August 2006. Knight claims the seminar violated terms of a registration form Weaver signed that says teachings at the Ramtha school are for the students' personal use only and cannot be disseminated or taught for commercial gain.

Weaver's attorneys deny the allegations.

Seattle attorney David Spellman, representing Weaver, pummeled school administrator Mike Wright during cross-examination in an effort to establish that the registration form was inconsistent from year-to-year and lacked specifics. Spellman tried, in particular, to show that the teachings seen by Knight as appropriated by Weaver could easily be items of public domain.

Knight's attorneys claim Weaver copied seven school processes, including Fieldwork, an exercise designed to improve the ability to focus attention and intuition by finding a symbolic card on a fence while blindfolded.

"Is 'Pin the Tail on the Donkey' focused attention?" Spellman asked Wright.

"It could be," Wright replied.

"So, then is it Fieldwork?" Spellman said.



"No, it's 'Pin the Tail on the Donkey,' " Wright said.

Knight, under direct examination by Tacoma attorney Rick Creatura, told the jury the fabled story of how Ramtha first appeared to her in 1977 on a Sunday afternoon in her kitchen in Tacoma. In visits during the ensuing years, Ramtha used Knight's body to speak at seminars, in books and on tapes around the world.

"He revealed that his plan was to teach people that God was within them and that every human being was divine," she said.

Kilborne, on cross-examination, was not impressed.

"Isn't it the flat truth that there is no Ramtha?" he asked.

"That is incorrect," said Knight, who hosted a conference of scientists at her school to investigate the Ramtha phenomenon. "And science proved in 1997 that Ramtha was not me."

The trial is expected to last through Thursday.

Keri Brenner covers Thurston County for The Olympian. She can be reached at 360-754-5435 or kbrenner@theolympian.com.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/l ... ht10m.html

wolfman

Unread post by wolfman » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:07 am

A year or so ago I got a couple pieces of mailed literature in my Rainier mailbox regarding White living in my area and to be on the look out for her scamming business practices.

The author of the letters was from Oregon or Calif. I believe, and the author was upset that White had done harm and thievery to a relative and took it upon himself to mass mail these letters to countless numbers in the Rainer area to warn them about this person.

Something smelled fishy to me regarding all this.

I suspected that the Ranch had something to do with it after I heard that Judy was suing White.

I have no proof of this. It was just weirdly timely.

I wonder if the topic of these mailing's will be brought up in court?

Wakeup-Call
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Unread post by Wakeup-Call » Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:05 am

Pin the Tail on the Donkey - that is soooooo good!

Also love the question as to why JZ didn't just pick up the phone and call her devoted student? Why start with the lawsuit, oh ye great enlightened, loving peacemaker?

joe sz
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secrets, oaths, contradiction

Unread post by joe sz » Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:40 am

"And science proved in 1997 that Ramtha was not me."

This is an admission by JZ that Ramtha does not exist. If Ramtha is anything "he" must be JZ. JZ has provided no other evidence that Ramtha exists and she has even trapped herself by a legal maneuver to trademark Ramtha. No one else can prove or disprove that Ramtha exists.

RSE claims or has claimed to be a "mystery school" and by that, if it follows the Theosophy (Great White Brotherhood) cults as it claimed it does, it also opts to keep its teachings "secret" by legal protection. Using the Pythagorean mystery school and earlier Egyptian guild as a model, FreeMasonry, Mormonism and similar movements require initiates to take an oath to not reveal under pain of death the teachings to the mundane world. RSE of course does not threaten to "kill" anyone that blabs but RSE utilizes a legal maneuver to prevent outsiders getting the RSE info from others.

re the Pythagorean school of 500 BC:
"Each member of the school was forced to swear an oath to never reveal to the outside world any of their mathematical discoveries. Even after Pythagoras's death a member of the Brotherhood was drowned for breaking his oath - he announced the discovery of a new regular solid, the dodecahedron, constructed from 12 regular pentagons."

[Sources: S. Singh, Fermat's Enigma]

I find a real contradiction here. RSE cannot be a "mystery school" as there really is no mystery. Egyptian, Pythagorean, and early Masonic secret guilds actually taught valuable information with which one could measure the heavens, build grand structures, temples and monuments, and scribe in languages unknown to the illiterate. Real, useful information meant power---real power. We can still marvel at the grand temples ancient masons constructed with their secret mystery school wisdom and we can still appreciate the "sacred" music wisdom of the Pythagoreans.

What RSE teaches means almost nothing as nothing real, grands or beautiful regarding RSE claims has ever been demonstrated to the satisfaction of astute, credible outsiders. No grand buildings, no new mathematical theories, no new brain science.

This lawsuit against White.... reveals just how pathetic the RSE mystery school is---sueing someone for teaching nothing of import. 8)

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:54 pm

"And science proved in 1997 that Ramtha was not me."
it just takes a little bit more money to fly in a few "scientists" to disprove this statement.
I would love to see these "scientists" TODAY, after what they personally believe AFTER
this false concluding experiment, be cross examined.

joe sz
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Unread post by joe sz » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:25 pm

Tree.
Science did not show up to test JZ. A few apparently biased scientists did. Yeah, I'd like to get them all on record now about those tests but that could be done simply through email.

The way to resolve this is not to fly anyone in because that would be a waste of time. Scientists that are qualified and willing to put their results up for peer review would never be approved by JZ.

The tests only showed that when JZ is in Ramtha mode while being tested, she exhibits somatic symptoms and affect that diverges from her "normal" personality. It did not prove anything about Ramtha, whether the spook was JZ acting or "not her." It only proved that the state that JZ's body/mind was in as a Ramtha personality was different, that the measurable effects were real. No one ruled out whether a good character actor could replicate the same results. Also, no one examined JZ when she slips into Ramthaese without all the dissociation, something she has done repeatedly according to close eye witneses, eg, Jeff Knight.

In the end it does not matter what the scientists found. Let us say that they found no change or little somatic distinction between Ramtha and JZ. She like any channel could argue that the spiriutal domain is untestible and non-material, therefore will not effect the result. Channels can also claim that no psychosomatic change shows they are not faking because good acting could account for the changes.

I still contend that the best tests to examine whether any channeled spook or Ramtha is a distinct intelligent entity comes from open Q&A with simple tests of knowledge and fact that we know JZ does not know and that Ramtha must know if he is real.

For that test you need someone skilled in stage magic, esoteric teachings, and philosophy. You do not need EEGs, lie detectors or MRIs.

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Knight vs. Weaver, ongoing

Unread post by EMFWebmaster » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:51 am

Posted by Whatchamacallit
12 Sep 2008 01:46 am


I haven't checked....I may be repeating a post or two...but I also added comments in CAPS.
Last updated September 10, 2008 9:15 p.m. PT
JZ Knight testifies against ex-student
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
OLYMPIA -- Mystic JZ Knight has testified that actions by a former student so disturbed her that she took legal action instead of picking up the phone to call the woman, whom one attorney described as a strong supporter of Knight and the Ramtha School of Enlightenment.
"It wasn't anything I wanted to do," Knight said Tuesday during the second day of a civil jury trial in Thurston County Superior Court. "We usually tend to assume people are impeccable."
Knight testified that she authorized a lawsuit against spiritual teacher Whitewind Weaver, who runs the Lacey-based Art of Life Coaching Inc., after she had "moved next door, taken my school's teachings, changed them around a bit and then started teaching them."
Knight claims a seminar Weaver taught in August 2006 violated the terms of a registration form Weaver signed that says teachings at the Ramtha school are for the students' personal use only and may not be disseminated or taught for commercial gain.
Weaver's attorneys deny the allegations.
Seattle attorney David Spellman tried to show during cross-examination of Ramtha school administrator Mike Wright that the teachings Knight accused Weaver of taking could be considered as in the public domain.
Spellman also attempted to illustrate that the school's registration form was inconsistent from year to year.
During her testimony, Knight told of how a 35,000-year-old spirit warrior named Ramtha first appeared to her in 1977 in her kitchen in Tacoma. Since then, she said, Ramtha has used her as a conduit to speak at seminars, in books and on tapes around the world.
"He revealed that his plan was to teach people that God was within them and that every human being was divine," she said.
San Diego attorney Robert Kilborne, who also represents Weaver, asked on cross-examination, "Isn't it the flat truth that there is no Ramtha?"
"That is incorrect," said Knight, who has hosted a conference of scientists at her school to investigate the Ramtha phenomenon. "And science proved in 1997 that Ramtha was not me."
REALLY ? IT ISN?T ?JZ? ? JZ AS WHAT ? IT DOESN?T PROVE RAMTHA EXISTS, AND IT ALSO IS NOT A FOOLPROOF METHOD OF MEASUREMENT. ANYONE WHO KNOWS ABOUT BIOFEEDBACK KNOWS THAT. SHAME ON GORDON MELTON.

The trial is expected to last through Thursday.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/378 ... uit11.html
Testimony: Rival hurt business
Knight-Weaver trial
By Keri Brenner | The Olympian ? Published September 11, 2008
Comment (1)
Clients stopped coming to Rainier spiritual teacher Whitewind Weaver's events after the neighboring Ramtha School of Enlightenment banned people at Weaver's August 2006 seminar from taking classes, a colleague of Weaver's testified Wednesday in Thurston County Superior Court.
"Everyone who attended got a letter from RSE that we were not welcome at the Ramtha school until things were resolved," said Chrysta Anderson, director of Lacey-based Art of Life Coaching Inc., during the third day of a civil jury trial. Anderson said the letters led to a drop in coaching clients from between 20 and 30 prior to the seminar to almost none.
"We have no clients now that we had at the time the letters were sent," she said on examination by attorney Robert Kilborne of San Diego.
But Tacoma attorney Rick Creatura, representing Ramtha school founder JZ Knight of Yelm and her company, JZK Inc., said the school only sent the letters to 24 former Ramtha school students who attended the 30-person Weaver seminar.
"These were RSE students, and we didn't know who was part of Art of Life Coaching and who was part of RSE," Creatura said. He said the letters were appropriate given that Knight was investigating whether the seminar's attendees and organizers copied teachings from the Ramtha school.
PERSONAL COMMENT: SO YOU?RE TELLING ME THAT IN THIS COUNTRY, THE U.S.A., PEOPLE ARE GUILTY UNTIL INVESTIGATED BY JZ KNIGHT TO PROVE THEIR INNOCENCE ??? BECAUSE JZ WAS BOTHERED AND DISTURBED BY *** COMPETITION*** ? HOW MANY BOOKS HAS ?RAMTHA? BOLDLY ADMITTED THAT JZ READ AND ?HE? REPEATS FOR TEACHINGS, CHARGING HEFTY FEES TO OBTAIN USED INFO ??? HOW MANY TIMES HAVE STUDENTS PAID HEFTY FEES ONLY TO SIT AND WATCH VIDEOS ?? ESPECIALLY VIDEOS THAT ARE READILY AVAILABLE AT THE LIBRARY, SUCH AS THE BRIAN GREENE DOCUMENTARY ? WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMING TO ?

"Every business has the right to suspend service," Creatura said. "I don't think you'll find any case in the state where denying service was found to be an unfair business practice."
Knight, self-proclaimed channeler of a 35,000-year-old male warrior spirit entity named Ramtha, is alleging breach of contract in connection with the seminar taught by Weaver, founder of Art of Life Coaching. Knight claims Weaver violated terms of a registration certificate Weaver signed at the Ramtha school that restricts the school's teachings to students' personal use and prohibits the teachings from being disseminated for commercial gain.
Weaver, who took the stand late Wednesday and who will continue testimony today, denies the allegations.
GO, WHITE WIND WEAVER ! THIS IS ABOUT FREEDOM OF SPEECH, AND PUBLIC DOMAIN , IMO. JZ HAS ALSO USED INFO AVAILABLE ELSEWHERE, PUT A LITTLE TWIST ON IT, AND THEN SLAPPED IT WITH A COPYRIGHT.

She said she has been a student of a variety of spiritual, mystical and new age disciplines and has developed her own personal mastery model, Spherical Reality, which was a focus for her August 2006 seminar, she said.
HEY, WHITEWIND, DID YOU COPYRIGHT IT, TOO ??? WHAT IF JZ BEATS YOU TO IT ? SPHERICAL REALITY, COPYRIGHT-YOU-KNOW-WHO
CONTINUED??
http://www.theolympian.com/southsound/story/581353.html

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:59 am

Tearful testimony wraps up
Knight-Weaver trial
By Keri Brenner | The Olympian ? Published September 12, 2008
? COMMENT (1)
OLYMPIA ? A tearful Whitewind Weaver acknowledged in court Thursday that before she was sued by Ramtha School of Enlightenment's founder, she thought the spirit entity Ramtha was second only to her mother as "the most amazing, loving human being."
"I appreciated very much the things that were espoused by Ramtha, and they are still dear to my heart," Weaver said from the witness stand on the fourth day of a civil jury trial in Thurston County Superior Court.
Weaver, under cross examination by Tacoma attorney Rick Creatura, said she no longer regards Ramtha, a 35,000-year-old male warrior spirit entity channeled by Yelm spiritual teacher JZ Knight, as her mentor. Knight, founder of the Ramtha school, claims Weaver appropriated Ramtha school techniques and used them in her own five-day seminar, in violation of a school registration certificate that says the teachings are for students' personal use only.
"In your two communications with (school administrator) Mike Wright, did you ever ask for permission to use RSE teachings or were you ever trying to seek written consent to use RSE teachings at your seminar?" asked Creatura, representing Knight and her company, JZK Inc. Weaver, founder of Lacey-based Art of Life Coaching, said she didn't think she would be using RSE teachings, but "I was going to invite Mike Wright to the seminar; I wanted to be complementary and just honor them."
Testimony in the trial ended Thursday, with closing arguments and instructions to the jury set for Monday. A hearing is scheduled for 12:30 p.m. today before Thurston County Superior Court Judge Gary Tabor on Knight's motion to dismiss a counterclaim brought by Weaver alleging that Knight violated consumer-protection laws.
On Thursday, Creatura grilled Weaver on whether seven techniques or phrases Weaver used at the August 2006 seminar in Rainier had been part of her repertoire before she attended 12 workshops, classes and retreats at the Ramtha school from January 2005 to July 2006. The items included breathing and focusing exercises using blindfolds and outdoor intuitive processes, phrases such as "so be that" and "neuronet," and instructions such as "turn to your neighbor."
OLYMPIA ? Weaver said she had always used similar elements. But Creatura said school officials who reviewed 75 hours of videotapes of Weaver's earlier work could find no examples of those elements.
"If I had known the ramifications of signing the (registration certificate), I never would have signed it," Weaver told the jury. "I didn't think it extended into 34 other years of my life experience."
At one point, Weaver broke into tears when Creatura put up a map showing Weaver's home and surrounding land. She said she was upset "because of the harassment that has taken place at my property." Tabor immediately sustained a motion by Creatura to strike the comment and told the jury to disregard it.
Creatura said later that the judge had ruled in March to exclude any allegations of trespassing on Weaver's property by Ramtha school supporters because an investigation had proved them unfounded.
"There was no evidence to connect that to RSE," Creatura said. "She was not supposed to mention that in the presence of a jury, but unfortunately, she did anyway."
According to reports filed with the Thurston County Sheriff's Office, deputies were called to Weaver's home two times in April and once in August to investigate alleged vandalism. The police reports include mention of dents and gouges on a vehicle, stolen personal journals, unexplained carvings on a wood table and the discovery of a female plastic "action-figure" doll "in a punching motion" on the floor of a vehicle.
Keri Brenner covers Thurston County for The Olympian. She can be reached at 360-754-5435 or

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:15 am

"so be that" and "neuronet," and instructions such as "turn to your neighbor."

you have GOT to be kidding me.
THESE are 3 of the 7 examples RSE could come up with?

I hope RSE looks totally ridiculous to the jury.
And then, of course, JZ can bring up a notch if she loses.
And for what?
To look more ridiculously greedy than before?
I hope she digs herself into a huge hole with this one because common people
are seeing through her charade.

trade mark all they want.
in fact, why couldn't they trade mark "rock work" way back when?
because we looked like total idiots pushing rocks on our skulls and breathing like
we had been underwater for the past 2 months.
They look just as ridiculous raising their hands when they walk.

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:19 am

At one point, Weaver broke into tears when Creatura put up a map showing Weaver's home and surrounding land. She said she was upset "because of the harassment that has taken place at my property." Tabor immediately sustained a motion by Creatura to strike the comment and told the jury to disregard it.
Creatura said later that the judge had ruled in March to exclude any allegations of trespassing on Weaver's property by Ramtha school supporters because an investigation had proved them unfounded.
"There was no evidence to connect that to RSE," Creatura said. "She was not supposed to mention that in the presence of a jury, but unfortunately, she did anyway."


I am glad she did anyway. It sticks in the minds of jurors.
It makes it look like RSE it toally harassing this woman all the way down the road.
Sorta reminds me of James Flick's trespassing.
"It has never been a problem before."

California Dreamin'
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Unread post by California Dreamin' » Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:03 pm

A NEW ARTICLE RE THE TRIAL: (This one is hysterical.)
In a humble T-Town kitchen, a legend is born
THE NEWS TRIBUNE
Published: September 12th, 2008 12:30 AM
Gotta love the drama of two New Age spiritualists cat- fighting over good ol?-fashioned market share in court this week.
Couldn?t be more entertaining if they bent spoons with their minds.

It?s not the trial of the century. Heck, it?s not even the best-ever JZ Knight court appearance. This one?s a snoozer compared to the Yelm channeler?s 1992 divorce trial in Pierce County, when ?Inside Edition? and The New York Times tuned in.

The judge in that case wouldn?t let cameras show Knight?s face. But there were no such rules in Thurston County this week. Let?s just say after all the work she?s had done, we?re surprised her 35,000-year-old warrior pal, Ramtha, still recognizes her.

We?d forgotten until this week that JZ Knight is among the A-list luminaries (like disgraced financial guru Wade Cook) who once lived in T-Town.

It was a Sunday afternoon in 1977 when Ramtha reportedly first appeared in Knight?s Tacoma kitchen. Perhaps inviting himself over for brunch. Or asking directions to see ?Star Wars? at the Roxy.

Since then, Knight has made millions teaching followers how to get in touch with ?their inner God.?

Which prompts a couple of metaphysical/legal questions:

? When Knight takes the stand, does she raise her right hand and say: ?I swear to tell the whole truth so help me me??

? If her warrior sidekick shows up to testify, how does he get sworn in since he?s older than the Bible?

Up next: JZ Knight sues rapper Jay-Z for stealing her stage name?

When driving south through Olympia, don?t worry about leaving your nuclear weapons at home anymore.

The O-Town City Council voted this week to dismantle the city?s nuke-free ordinance.

Fine with us. The law never solved the problem anyway. Only pushed the missile silos south to Tumwater.

Sen. Pam Roach, R-Auburn, pulls out the sharp knives in cutting down one of her state Democratic foes. Or should we say sharp clippers?

Roach writes online that the D?s are scared of veep nominee Sarah Palin and are showing it by harping on Palin?s supposedly lowly qualifications.

Then Roach, without naming names, notes that Sen. Mary Margaret Haugen, D-Camano Island, used to work in the cosmetological arts.

?I am not arguing that ?hair dresser? is a disqualifier,? Roach taunts at pamroachreport.blogspot.com. ?In this case there are several real deficiencies that make me wonder if there might have been a weak field that year.?

Snip, snip, snip!

We end by giving a big Puyallup Fair shout-out to the Habitat for Humanity volunteers who are helping a single mom build her first home.

And how about this lucky family who will get to live at the fair!

Fried Twinkies for breakfast! A dip in a different hot tub every night after hours without having to clean any!

And when the kids act up, punishment is a short walk away. Strap ?em to a sheep in the mutton bustin? pen!

Got news for The Nose? Call 253-597-8742, Ext. NOSE (6673) or write TheNose@thenewstribune.com.

California Dreamin'
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Unread post by California Dreamin' » Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:13 pm

Quotes: "Fried Twinkies for breakfast!"

"The judge in that case wouldn?t let cameras show Knight?s face. But there were no such rules in Thurston County this week. Let?s just say after all the work she?s had done, we?re surprised her 35,000-year-old warrior pal, Ramtha, still recognizes her."


This reporter really knows the inside scoop. :)

Wonder if reporter knows about auction? Think I'll let it slip . . . . :wink:

joe sz
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juries

Unread post by joe sz » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:54 pm

Unlike biased sides in a jury trial, jury members are to stick with instructions from the bench regarding a case based on the rule of law. Even if a jury member finds JZ and her cult to be despicable and this whole lawsuit to include harrassment, they will have to overlook such feelings. If they find that Weaver even out of naivete used and "sold" trademarked info without permission, then JZ will win.

My hunch is that there may be a split in the jury. In any case, I expect appeals if JZ loses but will there be enough money to run an appeal if Weaver needs it?

Whatever the result, RSE has cemented its reputation as a peewee version of Scientology when it comes to intimidating critics and competition.

Will Anonymous take note? 8)

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:43 am

Ramtha's JZ Knight wins civil lawsuit
BY KERI BRENNER | THE OLYMPIAN ? Published September 15,

OLYMPIA -- A Thurston County jury ruled this afternoon in favor of Yelm spirit channel JZ Knight, founder of the Ramtha School of Enlightenment, in her breach of contract case against Rainier spiritual teacher Whitewind Weaver, founder of Art of Life Coaching Inc.

The jury, deliberating less than two hours on the fifth day of a civil jury trial, awarded $10,388 in damages to Knight.

That was the amount of revenue Life Coaching Inc. received from an August 2006 seminar taught by Weaver where the contract violations occurred.

The jury, after seeing videotape clips of Ramtha school seminars chosen to match with those at Weaver's seminar, decided that Weaver violated terms of a Ramtha school registration certificate that says the school's teachings are for students' personal use only.

Weaver attended 12 classes or retreats at the Ramtha school before conducting her own workshop in Rainier.

For more on the story, see The Olympian Tuesday.

______________________

comments 3
I am not your lawyer or advisor. Always seek the advice of a lawyer and professional whenever doing anything. I have never attended or signed anything dealing with the people or organizations discussed in this article.

I picked up these handy tidbits over the past 35 years in the New Age/New Thought field. These ideas can save your hide more than you can know.

1. Don't sign anything giving away any of your rights until you have seen an attorney.
-----A subset of this is that some people (I am not advocating this but reporting it) rarely use their real name and address and personal information and bio markers such as fingerprints for any activity or process unless they are required to by law or legal oath or they need to reference it later. Never use personal checks or your bank checks or credit card or debit card if possible. Pay in cash or postal money orders and get receipts.

2. Don't legally fight someone financially bigger than you or has more political connections that you or is better looking or cuter than you unless you have lots of money and really good legal defenders or don't care if you lose the lawsuit and want to make a point. If told to cease and desist your activities by a much large rival then gracefully do so or work out a deal.

3. When offering a product or service similar to that offered by a much larger and more powerful competitor then expect some negativity or a fight especially if you take their customers.

4. When offering a product or service try and pick a location where your larger competitor does not reside or have an office or most of the clients resides.

5. Be polite when your competitor is around or referred to or talked about. Keep your mouth shut when anyone is talking about a competitor. Never print online or in the newspaper anything about your competitor.

If you see anything about your competitors printed under your name or group or business or saying you said something you didn't then, when made aware of it, demand a retraction or apology or removal or submit a statement saying you didn't say it and be short and sweet and nice about it.

6. When creating a New Age or Alternative Spiritual or Religious or Popular Psychology service or process or teaching then it is extremely advised that you use very old terms and references, say 100 years old, as they are in the Public Domain and you are protected to use them. Or, create new terms and new words for what you do and verify no one is using them then put them into writing, have the document notarized and then go to your County Recorders Office and Record the document.

If you are required to do certain processes or use certain terms and such as per a government issued legal license or law then do as the law demands.

Prophet Atlantis
Prophet Atlantis | 09.15.08 - 5:30 pm | #
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OMG, you mean The Olympian is going to highlight this crap even MORE tomorrow? Thank God I don't subscribe, I can skip buying my morning copy. A total WASTE of space. They must be counting on a s-l-o-w news day.
Another Anonymous | 09.15.08 - 5:25 pm | #
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What a bunch of duped sheeple. How come they didn't just bring in 12 sheep from the mattress place to jury?
Another Anonymous | 09.15.08 - 5:22 pm | #
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Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:56 am

the comments alone in less than 3 hours on the net should tell you how the people locally feel about
jz and her little school.
I would have loved to be a fly on the wall regarding what they thought vs, as Joe said,
what they had to do regarding the law......

Tree
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Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 12:31 am

Unread post by Tree » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:58 am

2 more comments posted just in the time it took me to post the article ( and no, I did not post a comment :twisted: ):

LOL! I am pleased to see that others are as disgusted in this k-r-a-p as I am. It is a backwards world.
Deb | 09.15.08 - 6:00 pm | #
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Where did they get these jurors, from the school of idiots.
BJ | 09.15.08 - 5:51 pm | #
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Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:59 am


Tree
Posts: 974
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 12:31 am

Unread post by Tree » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:01 am

No kidding 'BJ', I wondered how the jurors kept a straight face unless they were wackos themselves.
LR | 09.15.08 - 6:04 pm | #
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joe sz
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no ad hominem

Unread post by joe sz » Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:01 am

If they find that Weaver even out of naivete used and "sold" trademarked info without permission, then JZ will win.
My advice is to not second guess the jury on this one. And I would not make ad hominem remarks toward the court or jury.
If they got it wrong, then Weaver and company can appeal.
[/quote]

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:00 pm

Ex-student violated contract with JZ Knight, jury decides
By Keri Brenner | The Olympian ? Published September 16, 2008
OLYMPIA ? A Thurston County jury ruled Monday that Rainier spiritual teacher Whitewind Weaver borrowed techniques from the Ramtha School of Enlightenment in Yelm and taught them as her own, violating a school registration certificate that limits the teachings to students' personal use.

The jury, deliberating less than two hours on the fifth day of a civil trial on the breach-of-contract claim, awarded $10,388 in damages to Ramtha school founder JZ Knight and her company JZK Inc.

That was the amount of revenue Art of Life Coaching Inc., the company founded by Weaver, received from an August 2006 seminar where the contract violations occurred.

"We asked for $10,388 and a verification that the defendant broke a contract, and we received both, so I'm well-satisfied," said Tacoma attorney Rick Creatura, representing JZK Inc.

In closing arguments, Creatura asked the jury to set aside personal skepticism about Knight or her claim to channel Ramtha, a 35,000-year-old male warrior spirit, and to decide the case solely on legal issues.

"I want you to wipe the horns off their (Knight and school associates') heads ? these are real people, intelligent people," he said. "Their beliefs may be different than yours, but they're still entitled to protection."

Weaver, calm and composed after the jury's announcement at the Thurston County courthouse, said she was satisfied that she and her colleagues stood up for what they believed was right.

"I'm sad that we got the verdict we did, but I'm very proud of everyone on our team," Weaver said.

Knight, contacted later, said the case was "highly important" because "we had to set a precedent" that the school's teachings were protected.

She added she was pleased her side prevailed after two years of the dispute.

"Many people have been granted permission to use the work," Knight said, "but the problem was they (Weaver and associates) never asked ? they just used."

She said the trial afforded the opportunity for 12 jurors to hear all the evidence and, "it was wonderful to see the legal system in action."

OLYMPIA ? Weaver's attorney, Robert Kilborne of San Diego, said although the jury "obviously thought there was a technical violation of the contract," they "didn't understand the larger issue" of unfair competition.

In closing arguments, he described the Ramtha school as an "Enron-like" multimillion-dollar corporation "attempting to put a small business under."

"So there are people willing to believe that there's a 35,000-year-old man here to teach you?" he told the jury, itemizing hypothetical multimillion-dollar revenue streams at the Ramtha school. "It's a sales gimmick."

Co-counsel David Spellman of Seattle, in closing arguments, tried to discredit Knight's case by alleging that the lawsuit was filed by "Ramtha, the arrogant one," evoking an old science fiction TV show.

"You have now entered the Fourth Dimension," Spellman told the jury. "You're in the Twilight Zone in Thurston County."

Spellman said Weaver didn't channel Ramtha at her seminar, but focused on her own work called "Spherical Reality."

But Creatura said the jury was swayed by a series of side-by-side videotape clips comparing Knight teaching Ramtha school seminars with Weaver leading similar processes at her August 2006 event.

"The jury could see and hear what happened and then decide for themselves," Creatura said of the videotapes.

As to unfair business practices, Creatura said the Ramtha school was "not trying to put them out of business."

"They can teach Spherical Reality from now to kingdom come," Creatura said. "Just don't take our stuff."

Spellman said his side was hurt by various trial exclusions, such as not being able to use words such as "copyright" or "trademark." Superior Court Judge Gary Tabor on Friday dismissed Weaver's counter-claim of unfair business practices.

"The judge gave them a fair shot, and they lost," Creatura said. "Everything else is sour grapes."

Keri Brenner covers Thurston County for The Olympian. She can be reached at 360-754-5435 or kbrenner@theolympian.com.

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:07 pm

a complete continutation of comments from the small press release on Tuesday
(prior to the one posted today that I just posted above):

________________________________

You hypocrites. There is no bigger sham going on than Christianity. Created by the powers that were in charge at the time as a way to unify many different arguing factions of people, the bible was written using all the "best" parts of the current pagan religions at that time. The gnostic texts were the parts that were omitted (and are the most interesting.) Religion is about control, and you drones that come in and say "that one is, but not mine" are proof. Listen to yourself from outside. Oh, and we have to take the message to the heathens in China and Africa. Why? They have older and more interesting religions than you! Certainly ones that balance man with nature instead of saying "Meh, go ahead and rape it." You want live a spiritual life, great. They can be fun and meaningful. You want to be religious, fantastic. But don't come around preaching how yours is different. It isn't. You're just as "saved" as the next guy. Every religion has some truth in it. Yours just happens to have the truths it took from a bunch of others in it.
Exxon/McCain 08 | 09.16.08 - 4:28 am | #
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Ramtha doesn't claim to offer religion.
dj h-jay | 09.15.08 - 11:56 pm | #
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Yes Deb, Jesus even spoke against the Pharisees, the "religious" leaders. There IS a difference, and I don't care to have Jesus lumped in with it. It is people that totally warp "religion." As you said, Jesus is a relationship.
Another Anonymous | 09.15.08 - 9:21 pm | #
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Iconoclast

You are so right... religion is a business, but Jesus is a relationship. Don't give up on finding Him. Heaven bound.
Deb | 09.15.08 - 9:02 pm | #
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The great revelation here (which should really be a surprise to no one) is that religion is merely a business--one of the oldest and most cutthroat games around. No matter what god is proclaimed, the initiates know the real game is always money, power, prestige. From the Taliban to the Vatican, from L.Ron to JZ, it's the same shell game. It doesn't matter how much gilt is on the altar or how much perfumed incense they wave around, it's always cheap, tawdry, and stinks to high hell.

Enjoy your opiates, masses.
Iconoclast | 09.15.08 - 8:41 pm | #
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Plagiarism is plagiarism...Joe Biden has been working that scheme his entire career...
lb | 09.15.08 - 8:25 pm | #
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One of RSE's "teachings" is that everyone has their own truth. Why doesn't JZ allow Whitewind her own truth?
Ahtmar | 09.15.08 - 8:24 pm | #
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I'd rather follow Jesus. He tends to encourage GIVING to those in need, not taking it.
Another Anonymous | 09.15.08 - 8:07 pm | #
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I know many of the Ramtha followers. I don't want to say how but I know JZ. Please don't let her take your lifes work to help pimp out her pleasure palace. Learning about life is great, even better when you learn from people that care. Her son's new Mastercraft is not going to help you find the path you are looking for.

Don't throw your lives away.
Truthy | 09.15.08 - 7:57 pm | #
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you have to love the name, though

Whitewind Weaver.

a heck of a lot more unique than JZ Knight
anonymous | 09.15.08 - 7:38 pm | #
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Yeah Deb, probably our hard earned tax $$ at work.
Another Anonymous | 09.15.08 - 6:14 pm | #
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No kidding 'BJ', I wondered how the jurors kept a straight face unless they were wackos themselves.
LR | 09.15.08 - 6:04 pm | #
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LOL! I am pleased to see that others are as disgusted in this k-r-a-p as I am. It is a backwards world.
Deb | 09.15.08 - 6:00 pm | #
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where did they get these jurors, from the school of idiots.
BJ | 09.15.08 - 5:51 pm | #
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not your lawyer or advisor. Always seek the advice of a lawyer and professional whenever doing anything. I have never attended or signed anything dealing with the people or organizations discussed in this article.

I picked up these handy tidbits over the past 35 years in the New Age/New Thought field. These ideas can save your hide more than you can know.

1. Don't sign anything giving away any of your rights until you have seen an attorney.
-----A subset of this is that some people (I am not advocating this but reporting it) rarely use their real name and address and personal information and bio markers such as fingerprints for any activity or process unless they are required to by law or legal oath or they need to reference it later. Never use personal checks or your bank checks or credit card or debit card if possible. Pay in cash or postal money orders and get receipts.

2. Don't legally fight someone financially bigger than you or has more political connections that you or is better looking or cuter than you unless you have lots of money and really good legal defenders or don't care if you lose the lawsuit and want to make a point. If told to cease and desist your activities by a much large rival then gracefully do so or work out a deal.

3. When offering a product or service similar to that offered by a much larger and more powerful competitor then expect some negativity or a fight especially if you take their customers.

4. When offering a product or service try and pick a location where your larger competitor does not reside or have an office or most of the clients resides.

5. Be polite when your competitor is around or referred to or talked about. Keep your mouth shut when anyone is talking about a competitor. Never print online or in the newspaper anything about your competitor.

If you see anything about your competitors printed under your name or group or business or saying you said something you didn't then, when made aware of it, demand a retraction or apology or removal or submit a statement saying you didn't say it and be short and sweet and nice about it.

6. When creating a New Age or Alternative Spiritual or Religious or Popular Psychology service or process or teaching then it is extremely advised that you use very old terms and references, say 100 years old, as they are in the Public Domain and you are protected to use them. Or, create new terms and new words for what you do and verify no one is using them then put them into writing, have the document notarized and then go to your County Recorders Office and Record the document.

If you are required to do certain processes or use certain terms and such as per a government issued legal license or law then do as the law demands.

Prophet Atlantis
Prophet Atlantis | 09.15.08 - 5:30 pm | #
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OMG, you mean The Olympian is going to highlight this crap even MORE tomorrow? Thank God I don't subscribe, I can skip buying my morning copy. A total WASTE of space. They must be counting on a s-l-o-w news day.
Another Anonymous | 09.15.08 - 5:25 pm | #
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What a bunch of duped sheeple. How come they didn't just bring in 12 sheep from the mattress place to jury?
Another Anonymous | 09.15.08 - 5:22 pm | #
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California Dreamin'
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Unread post by California Dreamin' » Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:05 pm

Now that JZR has been named "victor" in the trial, I'm sure that RSE students will run with this "victory" and use it to VALIDATE Ramtha, RSE, and JZ Knight. I fear this trial will be used as a reference point in defense of any past and future allegations made about RSE.

In my experience with students of RSE, any victory, such as result of the trial, will justify to them ALL of what goes on behind the closed gates of the compound.

Tree
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Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 12:31 am

Unread post by Tree » Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:49 pm

I'm sure that RSE students will run with this "victory" and use it to VALIDATE Ramtha, RSE, and JZ Knight.
this is exactly how current students will use this court decision.
Just adding another layer of blindfolds to their eyes and brains.

Tree
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Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 12:31 am

Unread post by Tree » Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:21 pm

"We asked for $10,388 and a verification that the defendant broke a contract, and we received both, so I'm well-satisfied," said Tacoma attorney Rick Creatura, representing JZK Inc.
the same one in closing arguments who had to ask jurors to put aside any prejudice they might have.

hmmm.....

I would loved to be a fly on the wall in THAT lawyer's office!!
And I am SURE both lawyer's offfices were laughing hysterically over dinner/drinks about the Pin the Tail on the Donkey
routine. This would be a great SNL skit.

yea, she got her techincality.The law was on her side.Duly noted.

But, the whole entire Pacific NW (minus the RSE student sector) is laughing behind her back.
They look ridiculous, irregardless of a little $10K suit.
Hell, she spends that in a few days!! pfft!

ohhh!! the follow ups are going to be grand!!! :twisted: :twisted: lol

California Dreamin'
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Turn to Your Neighbor

Unread post by California Dreamin' » Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:03 pm

Somewhere in the newspaper articles regarding the trial (unable to find it right now) there is the allegation that the term "turn to your neighbor" was illegally used.

I've been to many seminars where this technique was used, and this was before my years spent at RSE.

If you google Turn to Your Neighbor, over 10,500 occurrences appear -- many directly involved with educational and religious groups. How can JZR have the audacity to trademark such a common phrase AND GET AWAY WITH IT? Where is the integrity????

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:00 pm

3 of the 7 that were quoted as being "stolen" from JZ included:

"so be it", "neuronet" and "turn to your neighbor".

I am thinkin Star Trek, neruo-science, and several hundred other sources (that Califormia Dreamin' mentioned)
have used these terms without taking aim at others who do.

oh poo! the sandbox isn't big enough in Yelm to play around apparently.

take your toys and slogans and go back home to your sandbox RSE.

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Sad Grandfather
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Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:54 pm

Well, it was a case of one con artist sueing another for stealing her scam. So be it, I'll just turn to my neighbor, and have a good laugh about the neuronuts, er, neuronet, and their law suit, so sue me. What is the world coming to, when a con artist can copyright a scam?? It's a shame either of them had to win! Actually, I'm sure the lawyers got all the funds, so all Judy can say is, "My scam was more enlightened than your scam."
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

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G2G
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Unread post by G2G » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:21 pm

I believe I remember 'turn to your neighbor' from romper room and kindergarten days. It's just plain crazy and a violation of our constitutional right to free speech. So be it was around for eons. Neuronet is an abbreviation for neurological network. It's jzrk who took these words from others. How can you copyright mere words? More probably was the pattern of how the jury saw these terms incorporated in Whitewinds' program. Still is crazy. Jzrk should be sued for violating anyone's right to free speech if using these words constitutes copying her so-called teachings. Let's add up where jzrk has borrowed: Theosophical Society, Blavatsky, Vera Alder (sp), buddhism, hinduism, christianity, shamanism, Native Americans, pagans, Castanados (sp), quantum physics (even though she's thrown in her version she still took the idea and remodeled it for her students), other 'channelers?' - Cayce, for example, how many more can we add to this? However she's NOT been sued? She can't jus take from others and copyright it. Oh shoot She did, huh? Can anyone sue against a 'false' copyright? Hey for that matter she stole from the 'blue man group' with the blue bodies! Someone should let them know.
If anyone ought be sued, it should be jzrk for taking and using material belonging to no one and slapping her own label on it.
What a hypocrite.
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Sad Grandfather
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Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:11 pm

I suspect we're back to political corruption and the power of money. If I had the funds to put in the right places I'm sure I could patent a time machine or perpetual motion device or, hey, let's copyright the Bible and the Koran and get royalties on every copy sold.

I hope Judy isn't reading this and getting new ideas! :-)

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Unread post by joe sz » Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:00 am

[I believe I remember 'turn to your neighbor' from romper room and kindergarten days. It's just plain crazy and a violation of our constitutional right to free speech. So be it was around for eons]

Yeah, in my research days I attended many 'turn to your neighbor' New Age sessions pre 1988/RSE.

I'm projecting here but I think the jury in this case had to take into consideration that WW was not using that specific terminology in her classes prior to taking JZ/R wizard school classes. If WW had produced any reliable evidence [tapes, dvd, written material] that proved she was using those terms preJZ/R wizard school in her workshops, this would not have been a winnable case for JZ.

This reminds me of when George Harrison got sued by the Chiffons for inadvertently ripping off the melody of "He's So Fine" for his hit song "My Sweet Lord." The Chiffons won even though it is a common enough riff and Harrison denied it was a conscious act on his part.[/quote]

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G2G
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Unread post by G2G » Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:37 pm

My sweet Lord!!! :o

It's really too bad WW didn't have anything on DVD, or if they did, it wasn't enough to convince a jury.

(digging through old 45's!)
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

California Dreamin'
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New Nisqually Valley News Article re Trial

Unread post by California Dreamin' » Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:12 am

KNIGHT PREVAILS IN SUIT AGAINST WEAVER
Posted 19 Sep 2008.
By Megan Hansen
Nisqually Valley News


A jury sided with channeler JZ Knight Monday and found Rainier shaman WhiteWind Weaver violated a signed contract.

Knight was awarded $10,388 and acknowledgment that Weaver broke the contract.

?It was never something I wanted to do,? Knight said. ?We had to do this to protect the teachings.?

?I?m very happy we prevailed because we knew we had the evidence the general public didn?t know about.?

In August 2006, JZK, Inc. filed a lawsuit against Weaver and ?The Art of Life Coaching,? after Weaver held a four-day event in Rainier called, ?Health, Wealth and Wisdom: An Equation for a Great Life.?

The jury ruled that Weaver breached a student contract by using some of what she learned at Ramtha?s School of Enlightenment during the Art of Life Coaching event.

RSE sent a spy to attend the Art of Life Coaching class.

Weaver signed a student registration form agreeing not to use what she learned at the RSE for profit.

?It?s common to have such agreements,? Knight said.

Students must agree not to teach or disseminate any information they gain at RSE.

?It?s disappointing she never asked,? Knight said. ?She simply moved a couple miles away and set up shop.?

?That?s when we said ?OK, we?ve got to do something.??

If they violate the terms, the form states that RSE would seek damages in the amount of what the person earned as a result of disseminating that information.

?We register people all over the world to use the teachings,? Knight said. ?We license oodles of people.?

Knight was asked if Weaver had requested permission to use some of the teachings if she would have been allowed.

?That?s a hypothetical I wouldn?t even address right now,? Knight said.

Weaver does not have to pay Knight?s court costs because it was not included in the contract.

Since then the contract has been redrafted to include repayment of RSE court expenses.

Weaver estimates her court costs exceed $280,000, which she cannot pay.

?Bankruptcy is ominous,? Weaver said.

?The evidence we presented to the jury was revealing the obvious in our case,? Knight said. ?Side by side video clips to Ramtha teaching with students compared to Ms. Weaver duplicating the same methodology of the Ramtha?s teachings. We simply compared Ramtha?s teachings on three different videos.?

Knight said she felt the most telling were conditions of the contract Weaver signed.

?Ms. Weaver signed two of these agreements,? Knight said. ?(She) took our Conditions of Participation agreement copied most sections and incorporated it into her business model in 2006, with each of her attendees signing the agreement.?

Weaver said some comments made during the trial were disheartening.

?It was sad to me to hear their perspective,? Weaver said. ?I have no interest in being a celebrity.?

?I?m about sharing my work and making the world a better place.?

Robert Kilborne, Weaver?s attorney, said the lawsuit was not about protecting the Knight?s teachings.

?The lawsuit was brought to stifle any competition in the area,? Kilborne said. ?It came down to the jury not understanding the contract.?

?Most of it was ambiguous, arguments over the type of music that was played. They were confused by the argument.?

Kilborne said Weaver has taught basic principals for over 30 years.

?There?s nothing that differentiates RSE from other self-help groups except for this outlandish story,? Kilborne said. ?A raving lunatic?s claim to channel a 30,000 year old man � it?s the most bizarre thing I?ve ever heard.?

Knight also disputes claims that the lawsuit was an attempt to break Weaver financially.

?People can make us out to be the big, bad brother in town,? Knight said. ?It was evident in trial I?m not trying to run her out of town.?

?She could have made a choice to settle early. I think she?s running herself out of town.?

Weaver disputes Knight?s claim that she could have settled early.

?We would have loved to settle,? Weaver said. ?We even went through settlement conferences.?

?They came back with a large sum of money plus the conditions of the lawsuit.?

With the negative attention from the lawsuit, Knight said some people get the wrong impression of her.

?I have various churches that are my neighbors � the Moose Lodge, it?s a secret society and I respect them,? Knight said. ?I have Buddhists as neighbors and I think they?re beautiful. I have never thought them bad.?

With all said and done, Knight hopes to move on.

?I wish (Weaver) well and I don?t have any malice,? Knight said. ?Look at the issues.?

?Everything else is sour grapes.?

Marie
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Unread post by Marie » Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:00 am

?Everything else is sour grapes.?
I'm thinking the only sour grape here is the alkie who drinks all that red wine and defines love and "enlightenment" by how much she can charge per head.

ex
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Unread post by ex » Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:10 am

?Everything else is sour grapes,? said the split personality who spares no opportunity to point out that the Buddhists and the Dalai Lama dont get it. Who drove other people out of town? Doesn't she sound sweet in her press releases compared to her counterpart ranting from stage against neighbours [+nascar +walmart]? Yes it's non-compliance to smoke in a hall like hers. Yes she builds bridges over a riverbed. But I guess everything is fixable with the millions she squeezed out of people who paid to become "enlightened." The enlightenment turned out to be their bank accounts -- all lightened.

Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:15 am

HOLY SMOKES !

JZ was quoted, saying "With the negative attention from the lawsuit, Knight said some people get the wrong impression of her.

?I have various churches that are my neighbors � the Moose Lodge, it?s a secret society and I respect them,? Knight said. ?I have Buddhists as neighbors and I think they?re beautiful. I have never thought them bad.? "

That's just gall.
In my opinion, any negative attention Knight got, gives the correct impression of her.
As for the churches, moose lodge, buddhists..."Ramtha" has bashed so many world religions from the stage, I can't think of one "he" hasn't bashed. For Knight to insinuate that there is RESPECT ??? Based on my experiences in that arena, I would say that's a lie.

ex
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Unread post by ex » Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:53 am

congratulations to jzr,my deepest condolecence to whitewind weaver.both of you are snake oil salesman.so much i would have wished that the justice system would have stoped jzr it dident happen.but i give a sh about you my real considerrations go with the people you drag down with your actions.hope you both cant sleep at night abusing so many souls for your personal benefit.

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littlewiseone
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Unread post by littlewiseone » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:06 am

I wonder why it was not possible for WW to bring up the (lack of) validity of the 'contract'... maybe she could countersue...? I guess it all gets kinda pricey.

JZ conveniently left out christianity and the catholic church she so 'repects'. :roll:
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make...

- The Beatles

California Dreamin'
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Unread post by California Dreamin' » Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:46 pm

[quote]?We register people all over the world to use the teachings,? Knight said. ?We license oodles of people.?[/quote]


"Oodles of people?" Oodles? Does anyone know of even ONE person who has been registered or licensed to use the teahings?

This reminds me, I used to wear jewelry associated with the teachings. When I wore the stars as neckaces, I was frequently asked by outsiders if I was involved in either the Jewish or Pentacostal religions. I always replied that I wasn't and that I didn't believe in organized religion. People would then ask what the star I so bolding wore represented, to which I'd skirt the issue and reply evasively that I couldn't to reveal the star's meaning. I must have sounded like an kooky zealot. I'm so very glad I didn't tattoo any stars on my body.


ANOTHER QUOTE:
[quote]Students must agree not to teach or disseminate any information they gain at RSE. [/quote]

Now that I'm out of the school, it's apparent that the agreement not to disseminate any information gained at RSE to outsiders is a method to recruit new students, i.e., if someone genuinely wants to know about RSE "information taught," all they have to do is pay $1000+ dollars, join the school, come to multiple events, and when they are ready (and financially broke) the teachings will be revealed to them.

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:17 am

Greg Simmons himself publicly bashed the Catholic Church as a cult.
And I recall very vividly "Ramtha"mocking the buddhists down the street on SEVERAL occasions. Their robes, their bells,
and the Dali Lama's lack of knowledge.

Who the hell is she kidding about loving all her neighbors and the surrounding churches.
You freaking liar!!!

JZ's actions speak louder than ANY words.
The greediness, the mockery, James Flick trying to cover his a $ $ with "it's never been a problem before."
No wonder so many local people are REALLY taking a huge dislike to her these days.

Jeezuz JZ. Grow some true compassion by your ACTIONS.
You are losing the popularity contest by a mile.
Tell the kitchen queens to start mixing the koolaid.
Narcissitic predators.

Wakeup-Call
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Licensing the Teachings

Unread post by Wakeup-Call » Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:17 am

Licensing the teachings....interesting....

I wonder if JZ has in mind to manifest more fabulous wealth via franchising or something similar.

I had posted a question about how Jacqui Davis gets away with Dance N Create without a lawsuit from JZ. http://www.dancencreate.com/zenbuilder/Home.php

Looks like I have my answer. I would bet that as long as she pays JZ, she can mimic all she wants.

Just b.s. about "protecting the teachings" - more like protecting the profits.

Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:39 am

Wakup said, "Just b.s. about "protecting the teachings" - more like protecting the profits."

Exactly.

It's so transparent.

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The Sworn testimony of JZ Knight

Unread post by EMFWebmaster » Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:27 am

View topic - The Sworn testimony of JZ Knight

http://www.enlightenmefree.com/phpbb3/p ... .php?t=454

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