The EnlightenMeFree (EMF) Online Debate Forum

Hello Everyone, greetings

I have had two aftermaths or aftereffects of Leaving completely the RSE belief system, and I am wondering if anyone else are dealing with the same struggles...

1) To re-adapt fully socially has been pretty damn difficult..

2)I feel always fear at night on my room, pretty much bad vibes, nightmares, hallucination, not always always, but on many occasions specially at the beginning when leaving the belief-system...and is being difficult for me to sleep well.. of course sometimes I get better sleep, but oh Lord is so difficult..


Just wondering if someone here is at the same page , and how they{ve deal with that...

God Bless everyone :)

all non masters are the ones who die in the earth changes. the coming back programming is fearbased. but you r on the right track already. since you get this connection : leaving rse means to clear or relationship to live and other humans. you r on a track to solve this problem. after i realized the emptiness of the ramtha teachings i had to cope with the fear to have not understood the message. or there is the thought: ramtha might be right and i diden't take the warning.thank god for emf.

DUK,
you are not by far the only one with these recovery anxieties.
Most of the people I've encountered since 1980 who have left RSE-like cults have anxieety and panic after leaving. One lady I know who left a small channleing cult that used "transformative" techniques, a therapist now, called this "major grocery store attacks" wherein she had to drop everything and leave the venue she was in to deal with it.

In my case when I was in the midst of my struggle to drop out of CUT in 1980, I had stomach cramps for months that woke me always at 4 am before my final break with the group. I am sure this had something to do with the "dark forces" that the group subtly suggested would attack anyone in a chakra like the "solar plexus" who dared leave the "teachings" after commitment to them.

Many others I knew were in a constant state of paranoia for about a year about everything from spiritual attack to the group physically coming into their homes to drag them back.
Nightmares are indicators of a brain trying to "normalize" from neurological "rivals" as cognitive patterns, old vs new, compete for attention.

It is not unusual to feel like a "stranger in a strange land" for up to two years after dropping out of a totalist mindset. For some people this adjustment takes much longer.

I was paranoid the other members would see what I think, smell the doubt on me, maybe they did. But word soon spread and noone invites me over anymore.

I have been very paranoid, especially writing on here. I thought I would be some sort of target. Put my life in danger, etc.. thats how scared I was.

I came down with a pretty bad illness, worse in my life, and my friends who knew tried to convince me Ramtha somehow did it because I was talking s-- about him. ( I am now completely healed). I knew it had nothing to do with Ramtha but it was hard convincing people who thought it was, after all they all believe the guy who runs this site, David, had his house hit by lightning.

I felt I couldnt talk to anyone, even my best friends in the school. And all of us were very close. I felt sad most of all. Angry, mental, sworn revenge somehow..now all those feelings gone.

You will be ok.

I was so angry after it all. So angry I had been duped. Horrified that I could have been lied to, fooled. I trusted what I had learned was the truth, because I believed in what people said they were. Now the whole RSE thing is a joke. I felt scammed.

Is that my fault? That I was scammed?

yes it was ouer fault. in a way. we gave jz aka ramtha permission to scam, program us. we gave her ouer money. just like a car salesman who sells a crap car. moraly they should get both locked up. sadly they life theire parasitic lifes on theire next victims. to tell others that we got scamed is sadly the only thing we can do.

Hi Duk-

I hope you are doing better now.

It has been 5 years and I am still dealing with every kind of anxiety imagineable.

of course christmas music has just passed, I just missed "creating my new year"- btw - the first time in 5 years I was not reminded
in my own mind that I needed to do this. I was proud of this small accomplishment.

Some time just a glance of an old growth fir will snap be back to some teaching on the field.

But I used some techniques that were given to me. I have to be willing to work at them to keep getting better and building the old
roads in my brain that were more dominant before RSE.

Keep working at it.
It gets better with time and practice.

Tree said:

But I used some techniques that were given to me. I have to be willing to work at them to keep getting better and building the old roads in my brain that were more dominant before RSE.

Hi Tree.

What kind of techniques are you using. I still find a lot of the world's natural beauty tainted by Ramtha,

CD

CD-
I will look them up this afternoon and post them.
At first I thought they were totally stupid and elementary.

The part where you said about the natural world being tainted by the teachings I totally resonate with.
it's crazy crazy hard because even any tree or some bird or some ant can have the potential of a flashback or bad vibes.
Occasionally I will have an epiphany of sorts that re-sets my brain on the order of:
oh wow. yes. The Mamas and the Papas were around making their music l o n g before jz knight came along.
But those are few and far between. and... I still cannot listen to the Mamas and the Papas. it has to be an epiphany or light bulb
sort of thing. at least for me. Sometimes its a conversation with another former RSE member that turns it around.

1) To re-adapt fully socially has been pretty damn difficult..

2)I feel always fear at night on my room, pretty much bad vibes, nightmares, hallucination, not always always, but on many occasions specially at the beginning when leaving the belief-system...and is being difficult for me to sleep well.. of course sometimes I get better sleep, but oh Lord is so difficult..

Socially, I don't do well at all. Not at all.
If I go, let's say into a casino, it takes me days to recuperate. My nervous system has just been totally over stimulated.
And I need a t-shirt: does NOT play well with others (in a social setting)
here, on a forum, I have time to think about what I type.
If I have an outing with people,
I need a couple of days to re-set and be by myself. I have found not other viable answer.

As for the sleep...it still pretty much sucks.
They had me on Ambien and about 5 other drugs....until the police were called to my house.
Apparently I was sleep cooking, sleep walking, god knows what else.
I later found out there are lawsuits I think in Australia of people sleep walking off bridges and balconies.
So I threw that stuff out the very next day.

I used to have 2-3 beers before I went to sleep. That way i could get at least 5 hour solid.
But then this played with my head: oh, you're still drinking like they do in the group, etc
Now, I just sleep when I can. Sometimes it means not sleeping well for several days.
But I have found exercise of any kind as well as an all around balanced foods/meals aid with the exercise.

I know having my little rescue dog helped ALOT. But that is another story and it might make me sad.
But I will re-tell it later as well.

I have to head off to the doctor right now. I will post more this afternoon.
This is such a sensitive and not-many-answers-out-there topic, at least from a cult survivor's perspective.
That has been my experience. It's so trial and error.
Sometimes I wish the brain pathways that were formed in RSE would just !poof! go away.

Tree

um..is there a way to subscribe to a thread so I know what I missed?

I am going to take a stab at trying to answer a few techniques.
I would put it under the heading of "Mindfulness".
Fortunately, this doctor has not chosen one of jzr's trigger words for the therapy.
in my experience though, with both the therapist and the group therapy, there were often times some words and some
exercises crossed the line with rse. It was during these I would walk out (if it were in group) or I would let the therapist
know that that was a particular key word or trigger word that was used at RSE. She would remind me that at some point,
I would understand that those words in particular were used long before jz used them.

"University of Washington psychologist Marsha Lenehan has incorporated mindfulness practice into a new treatment called Dialectical Behavior Therapy, originally designed to treat Borderline Personality Disorder, but now known to be effective with many other problems, including suicidal depression. UCLA psychiatry professor Jeffrey Schwartz has successfully used mindfulness meditation to treat Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Other studies show impressive benefits in the treatment of anxiety disorders and insomnia. In a study of binge eating disorders, those who practiced a simple mindfulness exercise daily reported decrease in frequency and severity of binges. And in patients who have recurrent depression, mindfulness practice has been shown to reduce the risk of relapse by almost half."

So in this book there are a series of handouts which include several including Core Mindfulness Skills.
Each week we were given one or two handouts and had to tediously describe during the week how we applied any of the skills.
There were 31 in total. And of course, one doesn't learn these in the course of a week.

one was called 'practicing a non judgemental stance'
it is an exercise to describe an action or a feeling

* Replace judgments with a statement of preference: "I like..." "I prefer..."
Replace judgments with a statement of fact: "This happened in this way at this time..."
Replace judgments with a statement of consequence: "This is ineffective/effective for....."
Practice accepting what is (facts, preferences, consequences).

I find, if I can remember let's say, in a sudden flurry of some teaching from the ranch that washes over me,
if I can just stand and describe what it is I'm feeling and then let if flow away, as if in a wave, it will pass.
It takes an incredible amount of effort at times to do this. Sometimes even to remember to do it
because suddenly, at times, I am just overcome with some past memory of something associated with rse.
And then at other times, I just run out of the store and walk it off. It might be a long walk!

Another one, when I can remember is:
if I can understand I am in one of these huge waves of whatever it is (usually it's a reaction to maybe a dream,
a tree I have seen, an old feeling from the tank, or the field, or of being in my tent,
I will sit down on the nearest object and I will say to myself:
identify and smell 3 things right now that you can smell.
identify and see 3 things right now that you can see.
identify and hear 3 things right now that you can hear.
identify and touch 3 things you can touch right now.
and if you can, identify 3 things you can taste right now.

Usually, this takes a couple of minutes.
And if I need to , I repeat the entire sequence.

I find by then, the feeling has dissipated quite a bit. And once in a while, has gone away all together.
But not usually.

And then I walk. I take a short walk.

________________

a couple of mindful breaths might do, but sometimes this seems to akin to C & E.

________________

if the feeling is beyond overwhelming, holding a piece of ice in the palm of your hand might do the trick.
or squeezing a rubber ball.
or rubbing a stone.
or listening to very loud music (this works for me very well. that and listening to whales or seagulls on my i-pod).
look at a sign and read each letter backwards on the sign (one of my favs, if I remember to do it).
look at a painting and describe each color you see.
call a 1 800 number to hear another voice.
chew on a piece of your favorite gum.
suck on a piece of peppermint candy.

All this work by Dr Marsha Lenehan has proven to be, in the last 2 decades, the most non-invasive as well as loving and mindful.
( little did I know until I was across the country the first time that she was located in Seattle)

tree
thanks for the lead on Dr Marsh Linehan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsha_M._Linehan
she herself suffers[d] from 'borderline personality disorder' and went through many years of manipulative, suicidal and self-destructive episodes. I have dealt with many [women mainly] who have this diagnosis at our hospital. I don't know why, but the behavioral health industry often labels men with similar manipulative behaviors as "anti-social personality disorder". women rarely get that label but folks with anti-social personality rarely harm themselves.

Those mindfulness techniques you mention, are practical, I think. I talk folks through panic attacks regularly when they call our crisis lines at the hospital at night or those that appear here in person. The "trick" is to redirect the brain function into another neurological area to diffuse the anxiety loop. Anything concrete works well. "what did you eat for breakfast today? How did it feel to eat that? tell me what position you played in football? Or just listening to the person describe the emotion can help because it gives her an opportunity to exteriorize the anxiety. Of course, the breath is basic---a person is less likely to hyperventilate if they are talking and concentrating on a dialog.

I have some idea what you are going through. I hope people on this forum grasp that your efforts in recovery are nothing short of heroic, and thankfully Linehan offers a lot of hope.

Tree,

Thanks for your thought-full reply.

I will apply whichever of these techniques come to mind next time.

A couple of days ago I was in an uncomfortable situation with someone and later, when I was alone and began thinking about the it, I said to myself "blow it out." Yikes! This would have been a perfect situation in which to apply some new techniques.

CD

[quote="California Dreamin'"
A couple of days ago I was in an uncomfortable situation with someone and later, when I was alone and began thinking about the it, I said to myself "blow it out." Yikes!
[/quote]


don't you just HATE when that happens??!!! I mean, you're trying to have a perfectly 'normal' day in life after RSE and some thought that was literally planted there by you-know-who just comes to your mind. it is SOOOOO frustrating!!

and...if you need copies of some handouts or something, let me know.

one thing might work for one person, another might work for another.
I do know that working with Jill alone, the program took a bit longer.
Working with a therapist AND a group: that is how the program is intended. I didn't know that either.
it is utterly amazing what things stick, what ideas work, what worked for someone else, how their story impacted the listener-
I still think of stories that the one sitting across the table who cuts herself impacted me.
Then there was the one who's mother died in a car accident who was later blamed by her father- how her strides and tribulations
and how she endeavored to apply the skills or "skeelz" as I playfully call them .
Then there was the one who also was borderline and how her family all kept making excuses as to how they themselves were angelic
and had no reason to change any coping skills- it was only her who had all the issues.
Tremendously eye opening.

[quote="joe sz"
she herself suffers[d] from 'borderline personality disorder' and went through many years of manipulative, suicidal and self-destructive episodes. I have dealt with many [women mainly] who have this diagnosis at our hospital. I don't know why, but the behavioral health industry often labels men with similar manipulative behaviors as "anti-social personality disorder". women rarely get that label but folks with anti-social personality rarely harm themselves.
.....
I have some idea what you are going through. I hope people on this forum grasp that your efforts in recovery are nothing short of heroic, and thankfully Linehan offers a lot of hope.[/quote]

thank you Joe. trying to find the right icon to insert here.... just...thank you..... inserting a kind of Namaste bow, but it too ranch like
___________________________

oddly enough in this country, I later found out in the the book Buddha and the Borderline, a doctor technically cannot put 'borderline' on your chart, because if they do, insurance companies recognize it an "uncureable' dis-order and thusly won't pay the claims on these treatments.
yet, if it is put under the classification of PTSD or acute anxiety or something similar, treatment will be approved. This little caveat took a while to discover as well.

http://www.amazon.com/Buddha-Borderline ... 748&sr=1-1

tree,
you are absolutely correct about insurance payment and diagnosis. i deal with this as one aspect of my job which is to "pre-certify" payments with insurance companies for patients being admitted. Ins Co will not pay for inpatient treatment for "character disorder" or Personality Disorder as in Axis II in the DSM [iow, borderline personality, narcissism, schizotypal personality, anti-social personality, etc.] There are scientific or neuro-biological reasons. Axis I disorders like Mood Disorder or Schizophrenia are directly treatable with specific medication. In general, Axis II disorders are only indirectly affected by meds and people with these disorders do better with longterm, outpatient therapy. Borderline was so named, I think, because the patient exhibits what appears to be psychotic behavior but they are not psychotic. iow, the behavior is more calculated, on the bordeline between Axis I and II.

This is tough area to nail down but i will give one concrete example. A chronic Borderline I know would typically call in to our crisis lines drunk and hint that she might try suicide, then wait till the crisis worker called 911 before hanging up, then wait till the ambulance was outside her door before swallowing an overdose of pills or cutting her wrists or burning her arms. This went on for 8 years, her arms are full of scar tissue. But once she overdid it, no one showed up to help her because she wandered outside and fell unconscious in bushes---she nearly died that time before being found the next cold morning. It was a wake-ip---she has been in remission, has a full-time job and doing exceptionally well in outpatient therapy for past two years.

Anyway, PTSD is among the spectrum of chemically treatable Axis I anxiety disorders, and that is why insurance will pay for inpatient therapy and/or meds.

Hi Tree, CD, Vanilla, ex and the other ex's who are still struggling. Wow! I agree with Joe, your efforts are heroic!

I have been wondering for some time if I should mention on this board, a technique I use that is really wonderful for processing and eliminating emotional trauma. I have hesitated because I wasn't sure if it was appropriate to offer advice.

Anyway, since this thread is talking about specific healing techniques I guess it might be OK to post this here. I started using this technique myself about 6 years ago and it helped me greatly in exiting an abusive "cult-of-one" relationship and in processing a lot of old emotional issues.

It's called Emotional Freedom Techniques (EFT for short). It's is an energy psychology technique and it's really quite "out there" from the perspective of mainstream psychology. However, there are some very encouraging results being reported for treatment of PTSD, anxiety, depression and numerous other emotional and physical ills. It involves focusing on a negative emotion while tapping on the meridian endpoints on your face, hands and upper body; you can learn it and practice it yourself for free. I find it to be a spiritual practice for me but it does not require any specific spiritual orientation or religious belief.

Here's a link to the EFT homepage: http://www.eftuniverse.com/, there are lots of free resources there; and to a PDF of the "mini-manual" which gives instruction in the technique: http://www.eftuniverse.com/images/pdf_f ... Manual.pdf

The full instruction manual is available for purchase, but I also have an old copy on PDF, I can send it by email to anyone who wants it; also I have some of the old DVDs which came with free permission to copy and distribute, but there are many free videos on the website as well.

Maybe somebody will find this helpful.
Much Love,

since we share recepies here: since the "believes" we got indoctrinated are attached to our surroundings like music nature food. i challenged ramtha when the associations got too spooky. since ramtha never showed up if i called 4 times into the wind. there r only some conclusions left: he gives a sh... in this case i am off the hook and he was never a loving teacher. do you relay wanna relay on a teacher with no compaction? he lied to show up in our distress. same objection. he is to big a coward to face you doubting. he is not associated to the wind. the wind or ocean waves do not strike us down on accord whats sayed by jz knight. he has no power at all and is just an imaginary friend from jz. all this is very theoretical. i still get in fight mood when i see ramster faces. but since i don't now the new ones they get less and less. i also have to remind me that they might not go there anymore. in my material life i made more changes than the ramsters around me. i pull some satisfaction out of this. seeing how they life with no power running their generators on expensive gasoline. piles of wine bottles at the garbage. no time to get their gardens up in spring....... with some believes i drop back to the point were i got on my search.long before rse looking if i got an answer. since i was a cult hopper i have some experiences to compare. mostly change happened is not to attribute to rse its more life itself. i see the time in rse more like my teen-years were you sometime just f....up and have to live with it. what i bother nowadays with is general miss trust against normal people. being social and pleasent in a supermarked is still a challenge and exercise for me. a animal especially a companion dog is a realy good help. the most we miss r probably the friends we thought we have.

hi ponysong-

thank you for your link in your signature. gives a good background of your experience.

I had heard of EFT. It worked for a friend of mine but I did not resonate with it at all.
Anything at all remotely connected to chakra's, meridian, god, whatever...."You shall not pass!!" LOL <-----nice little old teaching again!pfft!

DBT was what my friend thought was my last shot at some method to help me. She hit the nail on the head.
She was right, thankfully (where's the little angelic emoticon?). And I was so lucky...
in my town!!

oh...and there was a prime example of how key/trigger words play off:
jz as ramtha's definition of luck: a stream of consciousness.
The old teachings just keep coming up and we have to bat them down with a 2 x 4.
Some of them take a mercenary assault!!

a animal especially a companion dog is a realy good help.

I agree completely.
There is so much healing for old folks in assisted living places as well as dogs trained for vets who have PTSD.
Dogs are so very keen in many ways. (insert petting puppy emoticon )

Anything at all remotely connected to chakra's, meridian, god, whatever...."You shall not pass!!" LOL <-----nice little old teaching again!pfft!

Yes, I wondered if that might be a problem. But there's no knowing without asking.

Best of luck and deep healing to you, Tree!

Hi there, its been a while since the thread started, and I keep struggling whit the same things, but on a less degree, way less ...

I can identify with tree alot, and i think we all can, I passed thru a phase of loneliness n nonpeace of mind, n i still do, but far less.. I remember having to think alot on every situation in order to recover my critical thinking, because of anxieties or crazy thougts, feelings or actions with no control, the only way for was to talk outloud in order to recover my rational being, and so I could regain some "sort" of peace, call me crazy but that happened alot, still does on a less degree.

So how did I did it?, well I dont believe I am fully restored, great damage it was for me to eat all that rse shit. And it has cost me alot, I know I cant pay all of that cost by my own, so I can fully restore, so...

I believe that the damage is both psychological and spiritual, on the psychological level I made myself go to a psychologist so I can get some good conclusions on my mind, and clear it, and I still do sometimes the "autotherapy".. but less.

On the spiritual level, well I was formely catholic in my early years, so even though my beliefs on christianity were broken, because of RSE beliefs, I remember, somehow or another that when I was a christian and assited to catholic church I rememeber having peace on my heart after confessing my sins, I remember when I was touched by the holy spirit I just wanted to hug everyone, I remember socializing was very joyful and easy... So I made myself a promise, thet no matter what or how much it costs I was going to return to christianity and to my church, more clearly returning to Christ. So thats my journey, were I am now spiritually, of course it is not easy, Ive returned to church but the battle is still on..

I believe that the psycholigical and spiritual takes a big part, I believe that this two take a big part on taking someone out of their mind, As well as taking someone back to life.

Everyone have a nice Day...God bless...