Fieldwork - what's true about it?

Many experiences have happened during these techniques, known as disciplines, at RSE. People have been hurt physically, emotionally, and otherwise. Post your experiences.
Wakeup-Call
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Fieldwork - what's true about it?

Unread post by Wakeup-Call »

A friend of mine, fellow RSE student, is trying to wrap her head around what she's heard about the Ramtha scam.

She asked me, "Well, what about fieldwork? How can you explain people finding their cards...without cheating?" Because we were never cheaters at that discipline and found our cards.

I'm so glad I've finally let myself think about the science/math on this that RSE so readily dismisses. I told her to think about a billiard table. That if you kept bouncing 10 balls around the table for 10 minutes, 1 hour, 2 hours, 12 hours...how many would fall in a hole? And it wouldn't be magic or a result of focus.

If this were real, it would be very easy for JZ to go to a university and ask to have a project done by some Decision Sciences computer programming students build a model to calculate how many "hits" would occur just based on the mathematics of probability and statistics. The same math that phone companies use to figure out that, for example, 10 phone lines can accommodate 1000 people making calls in a business (I'm just ballparking...but the numbers astound people at how few lines are really needed).

Then, JZ or staff could type into the software program the parameters for each fieldwork session to calculate the number of cards that should be found simply due to random bouncing around the field. The parameters of # of people, # of cards and length of time on the field.

If CONSISTENTLY, more cards were found than the predicted random amount, then there's something scientific to investigate.

Since this would be such simple science to introduce and would be such a strong support to the validity of the discipline, it just adds to my conviction that JZ is a total sham. The only "science" she's introduced in recent years is writing down the names of the students who found their cards...as though this reduces cheating because people won't tape a card to their chest, under their coat, before going to the field.

I just can't believe I ever fell for the RSE message that no cards found were ever due to randomness, and if you let that thought dwell in your mind then you were introducing doubt and it would be a long long time before you found a card again!
tree
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Unread post by tree »

Fieldwork - what's true about it?
Very interesting topic.

I have had some difficulty wrapping my mind around this one as I was brought up with Dale Carnegie type "positive" thinking all
my life. I was taught to set goals, practice long and hard, and the end result would be mine.

I found my share of cards at RSE, but I ALWAYS concentrated on the result I wanted, never the card itself.

So, I am not quite sure where to put the stoopid disciple-lin .

I actually never came out of any of my research or exit counseling with a clear answer on this for myself.

but, I never considered your very good point of:
I just can't believe I ever fell for the RSE message that no cards found were ever due to randomness,
this never occured to me until you spelled it out here. Thank you.

In fact, I don't know where to put how I made it to the void every time until group 10 was formed either.
AND, I might add, WITHOUT HELP from you-know-who. I was never one of the "elite" of the school.

While I was so confused last year, a friend of mine suggested I make a GOAL list.
This helped me 1) readjust some of the vernacular of the school
2) get some concrete goals in mind so as to not be so lost in the sauce (of all kinds :wink: )

For her to have suggested that to me was one of the best helps in re-adjusting to life without the list,
without making cards, without the "safety" of the blue star, etc.

any further thoughts on this subject from ex students, I would be really open to.
Whatchamacallit
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My Opinion

Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

Seems to me that making a GOAL LIST is a good idea. A great idea. It is a list of your own ACTION toward attaining the self chosen goals for your own future.

Compare that to making a list for things that you're "intending" to manifest. You just think about them in your mind and then you file your fingernails until those things come to you without effort. (sound familiar?) The bad news is that when something does seem to just happen, it could wrongly get attributed to the teachings, when it would probably have happened anyway. How do we know that ? Because of the lack of consistency.
If life were a matter of just think-and-it-will-be, then I'd have lost 30 pounds a long time ago and kept it off.

Field Work TRADEMARK (LOL)
IN MY OPINION it's a bunch of bologna. In all the years of the teachings, the percentage of students who get their cards has remained pretty much the same. MOST students do NOT get their cards at any given event. It's just statistics, and nothing more. A certain percentage of people (billiard balls, if you like), will certainly hit a predetermined/chosen spot if bounced around the table enough times. That's why it takes HOURS and DAYS at events, for even the great MINORITY of students to find their cards. Going on 30 years later, nobody gets their cards all the time. Hello ? Sad story, but it's true.

I found my cards lots of times. Sometimes more than one card. However, I was not consistent.
Last night, I focused on my smiley face cards. I have posted this before but for clarity and new readers, I will backtrack a bit to say that I've posted about how I used to use the Zener cards way back when I was a teenager and I was pretty good at them. I did not get 100%, but I did get more than what one would could call statistically significant (more than chance). I was "good" (whatever you want to call that) in the arena with the cards, too. I remember "standing up" a lot, and other students mumbling, "She's good." I felt VERY uneasy with that and then I refused to stand up. I am not a person for the limelight in that way, despite that I am outspoken. They aren't the same things!

I mention this because (this is a longer story that perhaps I'll share another time, perhaps not), there were times when I was "encouraged" to share certain things from the stage, and I refused. The pressure was on. I remember talking to hubby about it at home, and saying that I didn't feel MY choice to remain a wallflower if I wanted or needed to, was being respected. I wondered about that a bit, and then I realized that (duhhhh), that's how JZ can keep her finger on the pulse of ferreting out those whom she can use to make herself/the school look "successful" with the teachings. It's always about her and how she can market her corporation. It's not because we are so wonderful that we can do something with 100% consistency connected to the disciplines in that "school". For poor suckers like me, who are blessed/cursed with a hefty dose of intuition, we mistakenly believe we are going to learn how to fine tune that ability and increase it's frequency and consistency. Not so.

When I am supposed to get intuitive info, I do. Other times, I do not. In other words, it's there when I need it so I don't have DO anything. It's built in, so to speak. Went to a meeting this afternoon with one of my daughters. Pulled into the parking space, turned off the ignition, turned to daughter and said, Jane Doe isn't going to be at the mtg today." Well, Jane Doe has never missed a mtg that I am aware of. Sure enough, she wasn't there today. I dont' talk to Jane Doe, and have no reason to even have thought about her. It just "hit me" and I just KNEW. I believe we all have that and can all tell stories along that line. No statistics involved, and we don't consciously control it, either. Nor does JZR.

As for going to the Void in the TankTrademark (LOL), then we don't ever know if WE did it on our own and doorways were quietly opened for us because we were being led to believe we were so powerful that it kept us hooked to the school, waiting for the next upward level of evolution to come upon us by the grace of our God since we so diligently did the Great Work.

It's all statistics.

Short term and long term goals (not a LIST you repeat)...a good plan. Reality versus fantasy, that's what that is about.
Wakeup-Call
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Unread post by Wakeup-Call »

Tree:

I'm going through something similar. Although I do technology project management for a living and am used to visualizing possible potential outcomes of various courses of action, associated risks and developing contingency plans. So I'm using a bulletin board and cutting out pictures of things I want to be sure I get. But I don't get hung up on it happening magically. Generally, I look at my budget and decide, "hey, I'll start shopping for a bicycle, I'll have the funds in Sept"

When I've got the item (I trying to stop saying "manifested"), I take it off the board and tape it in a notebook. But my mindset with this practice is to remind myself that I'm accomplishing my goals and I can continue to do so.

I've got a Word document going with thoughts about where I want to live next, now that I'm not tied to the Olympia, WA area. Just jotting down pros/cons for different ideas. E.g., Michigan because my parents are aging and my sister lives there - so I could be closer to them for emotional connection. But I don't care that much for the snow/long winter. On this topic, I'm trying not to put pressure on myself to decide, or make it a goal with a deadline... it's just percolating.

I chuckled when you mentioned the Blue Star for safety... last weekend I was fine with throwing out my Ramtha "eyes" and photos. But I couldn't yet take down the blue star over the front door, or the "car card"... I was out of town on business this week and looked over at my card....and I knew I just wasn't ready to take it down! I have too much superstition associated with it and until I'm ok with visualizing myself arriving safely and paying attention to my driving, etc. I didn't want to pull the proverbial rug out from under myself until I was ready. Right now, I'm ok with just realizing that it's superstititious. It's no different than driving for years with the St Cristopher medal on my visor because Catholic Mom made me promise to do so.

And my final comment is that I've started reading The Alchemist again. I didn't hear about this book through RSE so it isn't corrupted for me. It's been years since I read it, but loved it. What I recall and wanted to revisit is that the guy who was on his journey had a goal in mind but didn't force his way to it...he watched for how doors opened and closed. I remember he spent two years or something in a little store doing a menial job but doing it well. It's just a fable, but it had a different flavor than the All-American or RSE or The Secret mindset of Decide-Focus-Get, Decide-Focus-Get, Decide-Focus-Get or else you're a slacker loser. I came away from my first reading feeling that I needed to let life ebb and flow more.

Just some thoughts of where I am on this right now
Wakeup-Call
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Unread post by Wakeup-Call »

Fieldwork Lessons Learned

The more I ponder my fieldwork experiences, the main life lessons I got from it had nothing to do with finding a card... in fact we could probably write something like

All I Really Need to Know I Learned During Fieldwork (instead of Kindergarten) :D

- Dress appropriately for the occassion
- You'll have fewer hard knocks if you slow down
- You'll get bumped off your path - it doesn't matter if the person did it purposely or accidentally - all you need to do is refocus on your goal and start moving again toward it
- Other people cheat to get recognized, that doesn't mean you should
- Some goals are really not worth the trouble (e.g., wading through the stream)
- In the most blinding, ridiculous, chaotic circumstances, a little politeness goes a long way
- Other people will be yelling & telling you how to reach your goal (Focus! Spin to the left! Spin to the right! Hold it! Fall back! Blah-blah-blah!) but you're the only one who really knows what's the best way for you
- It's rare to find people who will genuinely celebrate your success with you - those are the keepers
HumblePied Piper
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Unread post by HumblePied Piper »

Posing the question from a logical standpoint specific to this "finding your card game" (not that it needs to be discussed):

can we make a list of all the variables?
such as, were the cards always put in 1 or 2 or 3, or certain general areas; on fences, on 1 fence; are the people that find their cards familiar with that particular territory of the grounds (we all have muscle memory for distances we've crossed before, things we've physically accomplished, etc)

then a list of all the constants?
did your card always have the same paper; same feel

the last question i would have is about the psyche... (good) people sometimes cheat, to gain acceptance, to gain notoriety... to feel as though they are not a failure (which, with all the people with little/no self-esteem, very understandable); the mind can and does even trick people into thinking that they didn't cheat, because they so wanted to "not fail" -- that would be labeled "Denial".

then, if still no answers, how about the same experiment be tried in a different setting/ unknown territory. if it is true, someone should be able to find their card even if it is hidden in a book, or buried in the dirt, right?

i'd be happy to host an experiment with anyone in my big backyard... i've got a video camera, too! and, successful or not, we could always send it to the Funniest Home Video show. :twisted:

variables... so many variables... the more controlled, the more likely to produce a certain outcome. it looks to me as if Judith and her cronies control a whole lot.

my 2 cents
Stopped going to the hardware store to get milk.
journeythroughramthaland
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Unread post by journeythroughramthaland »

HPP,
can we make a list of all the variables?
such as, were the cards always put in 1 or 2 or 3, or certain general areas; on fences, on 1 fence; are the people that find their cards familiar with that particular territory of the grounds (we all have muscle memory for distances we've crossed before, things we've physically accomplished, etc)

then a list of all the constants?
did your card always have the same paper; same feel
You are on to something here. I have also heard that it might be possible to steer through the actions of the guards???

In any case, I was at a convention where JZ spoke here in LA and gave a demonstration of "remote view". using adience participation. I always had an idea about this so I figured I would try it out. The first thing I drew was a picture of my long passed away dog. The second thing I drew was particularly nebulous, I don't remember what it was.

For the first one, my partner drew a star, the second one she drew a dog. She was all excited thinking in some way even though she got it wrong both times some how she just had needed to have made some "reajustments to get it right.

At the end of Her lecture, JZ dput all the cards out for display. Lo and behold what do you think. I counted them (I have the count somewhere in some notes) and out of about 150 people, 90-95% of the cards fell into the same groups, houses, stars, suns, dogs, cats, airplanes, flowers, feathers, birds, etc.and there were only 10-15 groups.

If one figures that out thee is a much greater chance that there will be more matches then one might ordinarily think there are.

But she KNOWS the odds and chances, she has been doing it for years and has seen it, Why wouldn't she mention it? Three guesses if you can remote view this ( ), ( ), ( ) answer at the bottom....









($'s), ($'s), ($'s)
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner
tree
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Unread post by tree »

As for going to the Void in the TankTrademark (LOL), then we don't ever know if WE did it on our own and doorways were quietly opened for us because we were being led to believe we were so powerful that it kept us hooked to the school, waiting for the next upward level of evolution to come upon us by the grace of our God since we so diligently did the Great Work.
can't say I can quite agree with this.

The amount of concentration it takes to navigate through the tank is enormous.
I find it hard to believe that I was just a "positive" statistic who was invisibly aided.
tree
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Unread post by tree »

how about the same experiment be tried in a different setting/ unknown territory. if it is true, someone should be able to find their card even if it is hidden in a book, or buried in the dirt, right?
I like your idea.
piles of dirt or in a book.
anything unfamiliar in territory.
tree
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Unread post by tree »

along with the namefield....

I have seen Audrey find her card more accurately than anyone else, and in such a short amount of time ( 6- 7 minutes in a 2 acre lot).
not to mention, I have seen her card placed on a FENCE POST, not just the usual fence,
and she go right to her card.

I think for the general population, the statistics answer is highly plausible (along with the stars, dogs, cats, etc for remote view).

But I have yet to hear anyone make a viable explanation for Audrey on the field or on the archery bales.
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David McCarthy
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Unread post by David McCarthy »

Tree commented...
I find it hard to believe that I was just a "positive" statistic who was invisibly aided.
Tree,

There is no doubt that certain "masters" are targeted and groomed by Judith's twisted mind....it all starts on day one.
But "The Tank" is a particularly nasty aspect of RSE, and a classic example of brain washing techniques
using stress, deprivation and self worth ?or lack of it? to accomplish its goal.
The tank is no more than a sadistic instrument of RSE compliance, and a brilliant way for Judith to target and groom certain individuals... It is a fact that JZR selects who she wants to make it into the "void"...! by having secret doors and panels opened by staff member, without them suspecting, it is all so sick.

If we want to be "tested" there are many healthy and compassionate"ways to accomplish this in life..
a ropes course is just one of them.

Ropes course ? Wikipedia?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ropes_course

David.
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....
tree
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Unread post by tree »

There is no doubt that certain "masters" are targeted and groomed by Judith's twisted mind
yes, i agree, yet I was not one of the hadn picked "groomed"

I can't see how a few of you can just dismiss this as a mere statistic or boilded down to grooming.
I do have a personal Tahumo experience, as well as a few in the tank to validate these.
But that is for me, and obviously not for any one else.
It seems you are lumping the baby and the bathwater , which I am endeavoring not to do.
20 years seems a whole lot to just toss out without any "postives", which, btw, everyone
seemed ok with on another thread.
tree
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Unread post by tree »

But I have yet to hear anyone make a viable explanation for Audrey on the field or on the archery bales.
And this is where I am coming from, including my own experiences.
If any of you have a viable explanation, please share.

I am just not into trashing everything and lumping every thing into one big ball of sadistic mindf*&^ garbage.
I refuse to be victimized to 20 years of someone else's agenda.
I have made my way out.
I have some things of wisdom that have come from the experience.
I am not going to just toss this into the heap of crap. It seems pointless to do that.
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David McCarthy
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Unread post by David McCarthy »

yes, i agree, yet I was not one of the hadn picked "groomed"
Tree...
I respectfully and gently ask you...how would you know that? How would anyone know that...?

Staff members who manned the "Void Door" were also instructed by JZR to open it ONLY to those
"they" deemed to be "focused"...!
Hey there goes my good buddy Tree..I will let her in..!
Hey..there is that Son of a B....he is definitely not focused...!
Judith knows well the psychology of manipulation let a few fishes in the trap..the rest will follow..

RSE takes one thousand fold more than it gives.. for some it has taken their very lives and broken apart countless families.
I think an important point in our recovery is to understand that whatever "value" we have gained at RSE...
is despite of...not because of...!,
It is in cherishing those values that eventually breaks the RSE chains and sets us free.


David
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....
HumblePied Piper
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Unread post by HumblePied Piper »

Tree wrote:along with the namefield....

I have seen Audrey find her card more accurately than anyone else, and in such a short amount of time ( 6- 7 minutes in a 2 acre lot).
not to mention, I have seen her card placed on a FENCE POST, not just the usual fence,
and she go right to her card.

.

I would like to, at least, use my skepticism abilities here. As most of all these "gains" that are made at the school are a mind trap, I would love to be witness to all of her surroundings before and during the test. I estimate that she probably has been reinforced by her successes; all the kudos, the congrats, maybe a higher "status" in the compound. Would that make her more susceptible to cheating? Would the school be more willing to capitalize on her success by giving her "hints" (wink wink)? Wouldn't that make others (who are not critically thinking) believe that there is TRUTH in the concept???

again, my 2 cents (that = 4 cents, so far)(gotta watch where my pennies go when we speak about RSE)
Stopped going to the hardware store to get milk.
tree
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Unread post by tree »

how would you know that? How would anyone know that...?
for starters, it was pretty obvious with group 10.
At the special lock in the door(for the tank that qualified one for group ten)
Lars was told how to open it and go through.
I was right behind him and was told, " This time is not meant for you, master. Go find
the beginning of the tank."
I thought, "ok." Focus. Focus. Focus.
About ten minutes go by.
Then I have a reaction.
"WTH??!!! I made it there fair and square!!!"
Next thing you know, group ten is formed.

second: "the comrades".
PERSONALLY hand picked by JZR.

it was really obvious after about a month of these two groups gathering, that they were of
"the inner circle"-hand picked.
Then another few months go by, and each group is utterly chastised by the "hierphant" for not
being good enough and not being focused enough.

So, I can pretty much surmise, I was NOT hand picked and groomed.
NOT ONCE, was I ever given special dispensation either as a student nor as a staff member.
We ALL know who they are.

THIS is how I know.
tree
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Unread post by tree »

Would the school be more willing to capitalize on her success
RSE did captitalize on her success as well as Kenny's and Debbie's (not to mention Joe Dispenza as a popular teacher).

It appear that if one's ego gets bigger than JZ's, then they are booted out. Debbie and Kenny's ego are still at the humble mode.

And to this day, you can put Audrey ANYWHERE, in ANY FIELD, and she can either find her card in less than ten minutes
AND hit 18-20 of 20 arrows in a target from 80 paces out.

again, my 2 cents (that = 4 cents, so far)(gotta watch where my pennies go when we speak about RSE)
you've gotten off cheaper than any of us Humbled ! :wink: :shock:
HumblePied Piper
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Unread post by HumblePied Piper »

Tree --

My questioning isn't to conclude with whether you believe Audrey has these psychic powers...

I am questioning whether it has been accomplished outside of the school, in an environment that is not familiar, test given by people not affiliated with RSE, Audrey, friends of Audrey, without any gainful interest in whether she passes or fails, etc...

If she could, why hasn't she marketed the skill... to my knowledge, she would be the only person in the world capable of it... I'd bet credible scientists, national and international press, and maybe even David Letterman would be craving interviews and exhibitions...

I will be staying with my position -- skeptical. To believes in these kinds of ideas without accreditation, is to have blind faith. Like George Carlin used to say, I gave up Catholicism at the age of.... reason. I look at it in the same light as Dr. Emoto's infamous ice crystals.

No offense intended to all the Catholics in the audience. :wink:
Stopped going to the hardware store to get milk.
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

Tree said, "can't say I can quite agree with this.

The amount of concentration it takes to navigate through the tank is enormous.
I find it hard to believe that I was just a "positive" statistic who was invisibly aided."

Yes, I understand well how much concentration it takes to navigate through that tank. I agree with that.

I wasn't referring solely to you re: the tank experience, itself.
I was referring to the doubt that could be cast upon the tank experience when one makes it to the Void. Why ? Because "Ramtha" has, on a number of occasions, openly admitted to the audience that there are people who are guided to the Void, though they are not aware of it. For me, I would then always wonder if I really did it on my own or not.

Hope that is more clear as to my comments.
California Dreamin'
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Unread post by California Dreamin' »

David -

I know the answer to this is probably posted somewhere in the EMF archives, but I haven't seen it yet.

Can you tell me how you know "It is a fact that JZR selects who she wants to make it into the "void"...! by having secret doors and panels opened by staff member, without them suspecting . . . ."

Are you certain? This is really very important to me and is extremely disturbing when I think of all that I put into the my experiences. What a betrayal.

[/quote]
California Dreamin'
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Unread post by California Dreamin' »

"I am just not into trashing everything and lumping every thing into one big ball of sadistic mindf*&^ garbage.
I refuse to be victimized to 20 years of someone else's agenda. I have made my way out. I have some things of wisdom that have come from the experience. I am not going to just toss this into the heap of crap. It seems pointless to do that."


Tree -

I love your posts and your attitude. I think it's vitally important to salvage the good and toss the rest. There definitely is wisdom to be learned from the overall experience, and I'm just glad I'm out.

I wouldn't mind, however, unemotionally tossing JZR into "the heap of crap." That's what she did to me.
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David McCarthy
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Unread post by David McCarthy »

California Dreamin'


Can you tell me how you know "It is a fact that JZR selects who she wants to make it into the "void"...! by having secret doors and panels opened by staff member, without them suspecting . . . ."
A very good question...
The person who told me was a 'high ranking" RSE staff member assigned to "facillitate" the tank.
I dream of the day when those former RSE staf members come forward and tell you all direcly what has taken place at RSE.
Tree is that "magic # 1..so far.. It is only a matter of time before others speak out, If we can all support one another here on EMF..!
and find our own courage.......
that day will come sooner..

David
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....
tree
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Unread post by tree »

The person who told me was a 'high ranking" RSE staff member assigned to "facillite" the tank.
Well, then, I would really like to hear from the panel of "master builders" , but of course,
that will be at least a few years (25 to be exact) after JZ's death (yes, you read it. The lawyer wrote it.)


Humbled,
I am a personal friend of Audrey's and I know her field work and archery work for fact.
She has no interest in marketing anything, and she does credit these things to Ramtha.

Debbie used to be a personal friend, and I have witnessed both her and Kenny live doing the reading of cards.
I don't know what else to tell you here.

I do like your other ideas, as I said, for controlling the environment .
ex
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Unread post by ex »

i was in a room with manny people i made the decission to get out there.found a exit got in a new peacefull room.and heard:master...name come over here focus on my voice.so i got even a hint for the next exit.but :you master with the red shirt go away from my voice and take the ledder you find at the other end .i refused 3 times to take the ledder.finaly i took it.bak to the start.from that moment on i knew that this school never was about spiritual growth i saw audry crawling through the fence a few month before she claimed to delocalice.a saw her shooting the day before her big hits: no hit at all.never thought about a pinnhole in the blinder?and the cardreading is just the icing googel cardtricks and you will find whats possible.in the 5 years i was in this school i never ever saw the demonstration of a miracle bejond any doubt.i talked to the guy which manifested a toothpick not in his hands he found it in front of him.i more expierinced this scool as proof that all newage things are more or less a waste of time and money.so are the religions just mincontroll institutions.
HumblePied Piper
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Unread post by HumblePied Piper »

Tree wrote:
Humbled,
I am a personal friend of Audrey's and I know her field work and archery work for fact.
She has no interest in marketing anything, and she does credit these things to Ramtha.

Debbie used to be a personal friend, and I have witnessed both her and Kenny live doing the reading of cards.
I don't know what else to tell you here.

I do like your other ideas, as I said, for controlling the environment .
Tree-

From my experience, there is no harm in maintaning a personal belief. My fear is that the people I know that are still in the "grasp" of the school maintain the closed-loop thinking -- the school (JZ) tells them, or subverts them, into what reality is or is not. My fear is that the mind control is so far under the surface, that the people I care about cannot distinguish or discern reality from any event or activity related to the school.

I would love to hear Audrey's standpoint! Can you have her come here and answer how she does it?

Truly, between my partner and me, I hope we can put all of the pseudo-sciences aside and keep our focus on loving and supporting each other, our family, and our support network family. Our best progress has been made when we've let go of the smaller issues and concentrated on what is really important.

with hope,
hpp
Stopped going to the hardware store to get milk.
tree
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Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 12:31 am

Unread post by tree »

My fear is that the mind control is so far under the surface, that the people I care about cannot distinguish or discern reality from any event or activity related to the school.
I think you are spot on here. This is very true. I know. I used to think that way.

And, as a side note, there may be a few who think I might still partially brainwashed because I still believe these "tricks" still can be
perfromed.
I am just saying they are viable, but only for a few. The majority of people are of the hit-and-miss and statistical variety.
Even though Kenny was shown to have "moved the poker chips with his mind" ( I don't really believe it), I still think there are mini Carrie's out there
who can rage fires with their minds as well. I don't think kinetic energy can really be taught.
Either you have a bushel full of energy and you learn how to direct it, or you don't.

And as Joe Sz told me, it is quite possible to learn to believe things can happen (remote view, seeing through walls) because of a group think setting. Maybe all these things were taught under that guise, other than Henry Sugar cards.
It took 3 years for that story to be read in the arena and then Kenny, out on his own learning to do this.
For the most part, the rest of the students gave up on such a feat.
Until one day, Lars(Roses) calls James (Blue Body) from a beer drinking party and sais," Hey...come here! Look what this
guy can do!!" And it took James like 2-3 visits to beieve it.
Then lo and behold, Kenny is brought up stage like a show and tell doll.
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