It is still beyond Leemars comprehension
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aussiegirl
- Posts: 73
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I do understand Leemar's questioning. It is really really difficult to understand how people can be duped like this, I know that it couldn't happen to me in this way and before I get yelled down - one of the reasons I know this is I have absolutely no interest at all in the subjects that the school is about. So whilst intelligent people can be fooled, they are intelligent people who also are interested in esoteric pursuits which many (I guess Leemar and myself) are just not interested in. My partner has been seeking answers to the questions of existence since he was a child, I couldn't imagine anything more pointless and boring to spend time on so surely the people drawn into RSE must be seeking something otherwise why go in the first place?
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Whatchamacallit
- Posts: 880
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Aussie,
Leemar's questioning is fine. His disinterest in metaphysical topics is fine. I don't understand why someone would have an interest in car racing. I find it dreadfully boring and it has zero appeal to me. I have no doubt that others have that same zero interest in things metaphysical. My response to Leemar was prefaced by VALIDATING that he certainly does not have to "subscribe to the idea that..." That's all fine.
However, Leemar's posting content has gone into territory that just isn't okay. Overt name calling, threats, threats using vile language and the like just won't be allowed on here. He knows better, but he chose to use this forum in that manner, and it's not welcome.
Yes, I agree with you that it's intelligent people with an initial interest in the topic that RSE makes claims about, that is the basic draw in the first place.
Leemar's questioning is fine. His disinterest in metaphysical topics is fine. I don't understand why someone would have an interest in car racing. I find it dreadfully boring and it has zero appeal to me. I have no doubt that others have that same zero interest in things metaphysical. My response to Leemar was prefaced by VALIDATING that he certainly does not have to "subscribe to the idea that..." That's all fine.
However, Leemar's posting content has gone into territory that just isn't okay. Overt name calling, threats, threats using vile language and the like just won't be allowed on here. He knows better, but he chose to use this forum in that manner, and it's not welcome.
Yes, I agree with you that it's intelligent people with an initial interest in the topic that RSE makes claims about, that is the basic draw in the first place.
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David McCarthy
- Site Admin
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Leemars insistence that normal and intelligent people do not join Cults,
and that somehow..."We" must be weak minded, gullible and perhaps even deserving of our fate has been explored previously on EMF.
Sadly.. Leemars perception is an all to common fallacy in our society, and a dangerous one at that.
Perhaps for some people this attitude serves as convenient excuse to ignore facing the challenging and complex issues of Cults...
who knows what Pandora?s Box it may open for them should they venture there?
It may be useful to those following this thread to read through Leemars original post,
titled?
?LEEMAR is kind of tired of all the abuse excuse rhetoric - call RSE what it is....?
EMF Link?
http://pub43.bravenet.com/forum/3633497066/show/665986
I hope Leemar?
You will gain some new insights and compassion for your sister, who's actions have so devastatingly affected your family through her involvement with RSE.
The only difference is.. your sister does not know it? Yet.
You are still falling headlong into the trap of the RSE divisiveness that has been set for you.
You see Leemar..that's what Cults do best.. divide and conquer lives...without the victims even knowing what took place.
I really appreciate everyones input on this very difficult topic.
It has caused me to take a deeper look under this particular "Ramtha rock"..
But.. whatever may crawl out from it's dark hiding place.. is no match for the light we shine upon it.
Just a quick trip into Google-land? and I came across this..
So you'd like to... understand how intelligent people can be fooled by cults?
Cults aren't populated by "stupid people"; you'd be surprised how many genuinely intelligent people belong to cults. Some were raised in them from birth (as I was), but many also get tricked into joining cults as victims of deceptive misinformation and through emotional manipulation.
INDOCTRINATION: How a Cult Group / Institution Encourages and Exploits Psychopathologies
Why People Believe Weird Things: Pseudoscience, Superstition, and Other Confusions of Our Time
by Michael Shermer
http://www.amazon.com/People-Believe-We ... f_dtl_pl_3
The Manipulated Mind: Brainwashing, Conditioning and Indoctrination by Denise Winn
http://www.amazon.com/Manipulated-Mind- ... _dtl_txt_8
Combatting Cult Mind Control: The #1 Best-selling Guide to Protection, Rescue, and Recovery from Destructive Cults by Steve Hassan
http://www.amazon.com/Combatting-Cult-M ... _dtl_txt_9
Coercion: Why We Listen to What "They" Say by Douglas Rushkoff
http://www.amazon.com/Coercion-Why-List ... dtl_txt_10
The Guru Papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power by Joel Kramer, Diana Alstad
http://www.amazon.com/Guru-Papers-Masks ... dtl_txt_11
Battle for the Mind: A Physiology of Conversion and Brainwashing by William Sargant
http://www.amazon.com/Battle-Mind-Physi ... dtl_txt_12
FEET OF CLAY : Saints, Sinners, and Madmen: A Study of Gurus by Anthony Storr
http://www.amazon.com/FEET-CLAY-Saints- ... dtl_txt_13
************************************
How does that wise old saying go..
If you want to See something.. Open Your Eyes..!
If you want to Know something..Google It?!
Chuckle.
David.
and that somehow..."We" must be weak minded, gullible and perhaps even deserving of our fate has been explored previously on EMF.
Sadly.. Leemars perception is an all to common fallacy in our society, and a dangerous one at that.
Perhaps for some people this attitude serves as convenient excuse to ignore facing the challenging and complex issues of Cults...
who knows what Pandora?s Box it may open for them should they venture there?
It may be useful to those following this thread to read through Leemars original post,
titled?
?LEEMAR is kind of tired of all the abuse excuse rhetoric - call RSE what it is....?
EMF Link?
http://pub43.bravenet.com/forum/3633497066/show/665986
I hope Leemar?
You will gain some new insights and compassion for your sister, who's actions have so devastatingly affected your family through her involvement with RSE.
The only difference is.. your sister does not know it? Yet.
You are still falling headlong into the trap of the RSE divisiveness that has been set for you.
You see Leemar..that's what Cults do best.. divide and conquer lives...without the victims even knowing what took place.
I really appreciate everyones input on this very difficult topic.
It has caused me to take a deeper look under this particular "Ramtha rock"..
But.. whatever may crawl out from it's dark hiding place.. is no match for the light we shine upon it.
Just a quick trip into Google-land? and I came across this..
So you'd like to... understand how intelligent people can be fooled by cults?
Cults aren't populated by "stupid people"; you'd be surprised how many genuinely intelligent people belong to cults. Some were raised in them from birth (as I was), but many also get tricked into joining cults as victims of deceptive misinformation and through emotional manipulation.
INDOCTRINATION: How a Cult Group / Institution Encourages and Exploits Psychopathologies
Why People Believe Weird Things: Pseudoscience, Superstition, and Other Confusions of Our Time
by Michael Shermer
http://www.amazon.com/People-Believe-We ... f_dtl_pl_3
The Manipulated Mind: Brainwashing, Conditioning and Indoctrination by Denise Winn
http://www.amazon.com/Manipulated-Mind- ... _dtl_txt_8
Combatting Cult Mind Control: The #1 Best-selling Guide to Protection, Rescue, and Recovery from Destructive Cults by Steve Hassan
http://www.amazon.com/Combatting-Cult-M ... _dtl_txt_9
Coercion: Why We Listen to What "They" Say by Douglas Rushkoff
http://www.amazon.com/Coercion-Why-List ... dtl_txt_10
The Guru Papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power by Joel Kramer, Diana Alstad
http://www.amazon.com/Guru-Papers-Masks ... dtl_txt_11
Battle for the Mind: A Physiology of Conversion and Brainwashing by William Sargant
http://www.amazon.com/Battle-Mind-Physi ... dtl_txt_12
FEET OF CLAY : Saints, Sinners, and Madmen: A Study of Gurus by Anthony Storr
http://www.amazon.com/FEET-CLAY-Saints- ... dtl_txt_13
************************************
How does that wise old saying go..
If you want to See something.. Open Your Eyes..!
If you want to Know something..Google It?!
Chuckle.
David.
<<<Leemar>>>
I understand your frustration and inability to grasp just how a "normal" individual could become involved in RSE; however, were you THERE for a nine-day beginner's event, prior to any faux channelling, you might very well have formed bonds with your partners during some very laughable situations. You might have found your cards in a large football field, blindfolded and disoriented by the sun and "heavy breathing" known as C & E (concentration and energy). You might have had a good laugh over a lot of things with people who appeared completely "normal." Of course, there is almost always a fringe element in many situations, not only RSE. You might have enjoyed the archery while blindfolded. You might have enjoyed watching the stars at night. There are many things you might have bonded with others over. BUT - how do you know for certain your critical thinking would have remained intact? The information in my beginner's was presented first as simple and extremely basic brain functioning. I'm a health pro, so I did know these things. Then onto basic explanation of their version of the quantum field (for those who had no background, well - it all seemed plausible/possible - remember - minds "open to new ideas." Also, if you were there and learned the "blue body dance" you more likely than not would have laughed a good deal without my going into too much detail in this venue. (You want me to draw a star WHERE?) I remember it as feeling as though I was in the "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy." See, this was a beginning event. It's a hook, a lure, a "now you have the ancient secret knowledge - that which was denied you by the churches and powers that be).
I did not have a dysfunctional childhood, in fact, I had a great childhood. I also had and still do have a very good sense of intuition and empathy to the extent I become physically ill when someone close to me is, prior to my being aware of such. My IQ is way up there (as are my husband's and childrens') and we never danced "nekkid" in the woods! I want to RSE largely due to my feelings after watching "What the Bleeep," reading the "White" book, and the manner in which the "school" was presented on the then RSE website. Enhance your "inner" awareness....well, I already had a healthy dose of intuition, why not check this out? In addition, I was raised Christian with the writings in our bible that we do have the capability to "heal." My church never taught me how to do this....so here was a place offering the "secrets" the church had "tucked away" from the public.
I had NO idea it was a cult, and I left that first event feeling energized and excited about life and the things *I* accomplished. The problem is the promise of "more" esoteric - "hidden" knowledge, along with the bonding and first feel-good about meeting up with those who shared the trials over the week. I can see "trying to find your card on the fence" as a fun game to play at a kids' birthday party instead of "pin the tail on the donkey," but nothing more. NOTHING is due to Judith's ramtha persona. No, there are not seatbelts or leather restraints holding you to the lovely astroturf floor. But before you realize it, your mind is within an invisible cage, filled with fear and guilt. Wham - Bam - no thank you, Ram.
As Whatcha said, it's insidious. You don't know what's happened until after it's happened and hopefully you have retained a bit of your critical thinking, enough so that you can get out of the place and not go back because those red flags don't just flutter in the wind. They are bright beacons of hope to keep your life, not "take back your life, " for the "taking back" would only be if you had given it to Jzrk in the first place.
Just my opinion.
I understand your frustration and inability to grasp just how a "normal" individual could become involved in RSE; however, were you THERE for a nine-day beginner's event, prior to any faux channelling, you might very well have formed bonds with your partners during some very laughable situations. You might have found your cards in a large football field, blindfolded and disoriented by the sun and "heavy breathing" known as C & E (concentration and energy). You might have had a good laugh over a lot of things with people who appeared completely "normal." Of course, there is almost always a fringe element in many situations, not only RSE. You might have enjoyed the archery while blindfolded. You might have enjoyed watching the stars at night. There are many things you might have bonded with others over. BUT - how do you know for certain your critical thinking would have remained intact? The information in my beginner's was presented first as simple and extremely basic brain functioning. I'm a health pro, so I did know these things. Then onto basic explanation of their version of the quantum field (for those who had no background, well - it all seemed plausible/possible - remember - minds "open to new ideas." Also, if you were there and learned the "blue body dance" you more likely than not would have laughed a good deal without my going into too much detail in this venue. (You want me to draw a star WHERE?) I remember it as feeling as though I was in the "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy." See, this was a beginning event. It's a hook, a lure, a "now you have the ancient secret knowledge - that which was denied you by the churches and powers that be).
I did not have a dysfunctional childhood, in fact, I had a great childhood. I also had and still do have a very good sense of intuition and empathy to the extent I become physically ill when someone close to me is, prior to my being aware of such. My IQ is way up there (as are my husband's and childrens') and we never danced "nekkid" in the woods! I want to RSE largely due to my feelings after watching "What the Bleeep," reading the "White" book, and the manner in which the "school" was presented on the then RSE website. Enhance your "inner" awareness....well, I already had a healthy dose of intuition, why not check this out? In addition, I was raised Christian with the writings in our bible that we do have the capability to "heal." My church never taught me how to do this....so here was a place offering the "secrets" the church had "tucked away" from the public.
I had NO idea it was a cult, and I left that first event feeling energized and excited about life and the things *I* accomplished. The problem is the promise of "more" esoteric - "hidden" knowledge, along with the bonding and first feel-good about meeting up with those who shared the trials over the week. I can see "trying to find your card on the fence" as a fun game to play at a kids' birthday party instead of "pin the tail on the donkey," but nothing more. NOTHING is due to Judith's ramtha persona. No, there are not seatbelts or leather restraints holding you to the lovely astroturf floor. But before you realize it, your mind is within an invisible cage, filled with fear and guilt. Wham - Bam - no thank you, Ram.
As Whatcha said, it's insidious. You don't know what's happened until after it's happened and hopefully you have retained a bit of your critical thinking, enough so that you can get out of the place and not go back because those red flags don't just flutter in the wind. They are bright beacons of hope to keep your life, not "take back your life, " for the "taking back" would only be if you had given it to Jzrk in the first place.
Just my opinion.
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972
Leemar,
I understand your frustration, your inability to connect, and total disbelief how an intelligent person can be fooled by this JZ Knight and all her cohorts. But, I know someone who is very intelligent, extremely wealthy, and those who knows him, can't believe he has fallen into this trap.
Unfortunately he did. He's had help to get there from an advanced student, and sadly all the family can do is wait on the other side. Hopefully someday he'll want to come back. His family will be waiting, and ready to support him in any way they can. It has them so confused, they didn't see it coming. They didn't recognize he was searching for something more.
I understand your frustration, your inability to connect, and total disbelief how an intelligent person can be fooled by this JZ Knight and all her cohorts. But, I know someone who is very intelligent, extremely wealthy, and those who knows him, can't believe he has fallen into this trap.
Unfortunately he did. He's had help to get there from an advanced student, and sadly all the family can do is wait on the other side. Hopefully someday he'll want to come back. His family will be waiting, and ready to support him in any way they can. It has them so confused, they didn't see it coming. They didn't recognize he was searching for something more.
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swamibinton
- Posts: 50
- Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:56 am
- Location: Australia
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EMFWebmaster
- Site Admin
- Posts: 292
- Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:28 am
- Contact:
Swamibintonwell this is normal for a controllers actions.(woops thats ramtha speak)
Here is a reminder of this topic thread
"Friends and Family Members and the Cult Experience
How to help if you have friends or family in RSE".
If you cannot sensibly comment or debate the issues presented on this or any other EMF topic,
then kindly confine your post's within the "current RSE supporter?s forum" such as yourself.
You are welcome to start a new thread within this topic.. if you wish.
respectfully,
The Moderators.