I have been thinking quite a bit about this as well as some other aspects of how I responded to my daughters involvement in RSE. I would appreciate some feedback from those who had communications with their family members while in RSE.
In hindsight, I see having a loved one in a group such as RSE quite similar to being in a relationship with an addict or alcoholic. There is really very little outlet to speak with friends because of the stigma that goes with being a "cult member". While I was fortunate I had friends that would listen, I was well aware that they really had little or no understanding of what was going on and no matter how hard I tried I could not get them in my , or my daughters shoes. Perhaps because part of the problem was I really wasn't able to put myself in my daughters shoes with regard to the school.
I was in part able to put myself in her shoes due to my involvement with the person who brought her out there, but once that transitioned to the school and group, I felt even more out of her shoes.
Very much like dealing with an addict/alcoholic, one wants to help in the situation but more often then not has to deal with the lies, broken promises, manipulation, along with the major personality change which takes place and makes the person as if they were "another person".
It is difficult to describe the feeling of knowing ones child at one moment and then suddenly having another personality appear that is totally unfamiliar. One hangs on the hope every time a small portion of the person they knew surfaces again. In the same way one might get hopeful in the beginning of an addicts/alcoholics recovery yet still holds all the fear of them relapsing, quite often, at least in my case, I would use those moments to attempt to make sense with my daughter instead of just embracing her.
This shifting between hope and despair, despair because I realized and would imagine the worst case scenario; her wasting her life away,abuse, suicide, mass suicide. Hope because I would see the glimpse of an old smile I recognized, an expression that was genuinely hers, so I knew someone was still "home". All this, added to a feeling of having to find a solution to the problem, searching for all of the "what ifs'" I could have done to prevent it and what I could do to correct it is an incredibly frustrating situation to be in.
In speaking with others as well as my daughter who attended RSE and other groups, I have also heard stories of frustration with not being able to meet the groups demands, not being able to achieve fast enough or in quality or quantity enough.
I have been wondering if ones outward expression of their frustration (I know I didn't hide it too well) creates a window in which one(the group member) is brought closer to their own frustration, sort of a negative empathy of sorts. When I look back on it while I might wish I had acted differently, I just don't see how one can not be frustrated in a circumstance like this. I am sure it would differ depending on how involved and for how long and how deeply one accepts their new belief system much in the same way an addict might be in various stages of addiction.
For those of you dealing with a family member or loved one I was wondering if you experience the same sort of conversation that develops into a "can't you see...." conversation which gets batted back and forth like a ping pong ball, each trying to convince the other and only becoming more frustrated in the process. If so, I was wondering if you might speak a bit about how you choose to handle this, if you think it is avoidable, or if indeed it should be avoided.
For those of you who are x, or current members, I was wondering if you felt there is any validity to my perception of negative feedback of frustration occurring, how it effects/effected your communication during your time in RSE with your family and loved ones and if you think there might have been anything you could have done about it or is it just the nature of the beast?
With drug addiction/alcoholism probably one of the most important aspects to help the person is to be able to get as accurate an assessment of the problem as possible. Parents and loved ones are not always the best people to do this because of the closeness in the relationship. We tend to view things from a very biased and not always accurate perspective. In much the same way though, the group member has a similar difficulty in assessing the information that you might be trying to get to them.
I sincerely feel , that forums like this as an alternative/adjunct to intervention/rehab/doing nothing are beneficial in this regard because it allows one to make an assessment of what is presented at their own speed and in their own time. I might be living in a dream world about this and one of the reasons for me writing this is to get a bit of a reality check but some of you have mentioned the forum being beneficial to your exiting or even your re-consideration of your current view on participation. If some of you would comment on this aspect of your recovery/enlightenment/change of perspective from this I would appreciate some elaboration.
Frustration
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journeythroughramthaland
- Posts: 248
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:36 pm
- Location: Los Angeles,CA
Frustration
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner
-William Mizner
Journey-In hindsight, I see having a loved one in a group such as RSE quite similar to being in a relationship with an addict or alcoholic.
When I read this line a light went on.
I would fully agree about the relationship part equivalent to that of having a relationship with ad addict.
BUT, the difference I see is that once an ex student actually "sees" that the group is a cult, they would
never go back.
I might add a caveat here that there are people who just leave a group because they reason it just isn't serving them
anymore only to move on to another group. I have seen several people just drift away from RSE and go straight
into NEXIUM or A Course in Miracles or Landmark. I believe these people have not seen the entire objective side of a group such as RSE and they move on to fill that spiritual need/desire.
IF asn ex student sees the group for what it is, I would caution family members to watch out for any signs of
the ex student wanting to join another group. There is a HUGE void there that I think must not be re-filled, if at all,
for quite some time, in order to fully recover.
I can say from my perspective as having been a student, a student can sense the frustration as well, but beingFor those of you who are x, or current members, I was wondering if you felt there is any validity to my perception of negative feedback of frustration occurring, how it effects/effected your communication during your time in RSE with your family and loved ones and if you think there might have been anything you could have done about it or is it just the nature of the beast?
of not quite sound mind, my tendency for the most part would be to blow the person off.
I mean this sincerely.
The empathy and compassion is long gone so all is left is to focus on is oneself. AFter a conversation,
I would not give two thoughts or cents to my friend or family member and their frustration.
I did not have as close a family relating as you and your daughter did, but, anyone who would try to convince me
that there were red flags or inconsistancies , I would have what little bit of conversation I had with them (and keep it very minimal) and then I would be off to continuing on with my food storage and disciplines.
Journey-There is really very little outlet to speak with friends ............I was well aware that they really had little or no understanding of what was going on
I can say that from personal experience, this is EXACTLY my experience here in the "outside world".
No one, other than my partner, whom I was fortunate to have met while still IN the school at the tail end,
understands my journey, frustrations, little joys, and despairs.
I have continuing ,albeit less and less frequent, bouts of despondancy and huge depression.
I would most likely be dead now had it not been for my unique situation with my partner.
And she is the only one who understands.
Well, and the therapist.
But the therapist is there once a week.
Friends and support are pretty much an on-call basis
If an ex member has children and family to tend to, I think that gives them something to center their attention
around. Gives some kind of meaning to daily living.
For those who don't have this, a job might be of moderate usurpation, but that only goes so far.
For an ex-Ramster, to even go out for a walk with the dog and see the stars, thoughts come back
to teachings about the stars, the "initiate" moon ( still trying to work through that), Ramtha's spaceship coming,
hours and hours of sitting out in the field gazing at either the east or west horizon, or sitting out in the field all
night in just a t-shirt, not being allowed to go back into the arena for a jacket because "you are greater than
your body".
People of the "normal" world really don't know where
an ex student's mind has been or where it's at now.
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journeythroughramthaland
- Posts: 248
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:36 pm
- Location: Los Angeles,CA
Hi Tree,
Thank you for your response.
If so,Would you have more of a reaction to being referred to as a former spiritual addict or a former cult member?
I would agree with you that there are those who "cult hop" after either an experience that loses the love for RSE or, interventions of various kinds. In some cases, one might think that even though they understood RSE to be a cultic group, they join another, or, one in which has many of the same potentials as RSE had.
This might be similar to a relapse for an addict /alcoholic. Kinda like when the addict/alcoholic abstains and then relapses and says " Well, I don't do drug x&y any more, they just made me crazy and I couldn't handle it, drug z is not the same, I have a grip on it" or "I don't drink tequila any more, that was what made me get out of control so I switched to wine".
Yet, as is said, "relapse is part of recovery", I don't actually agree that it has to be, perhaps it would be better stated that relapse can often be part of recovery. Your perspective, recognizing that as long as their is a huge void there (by the way you must be well on your way being able to include that word in your response lol) will more then likely assist you in your recovery and help you in dealing with "trigger" situations that you mentioned below.
In everyday society, there is social stigma with regard to drug abuse, alcohol abuse. Once a person realizes that these things have a potential to literally kill them, they can turn the social stigma to their advantage by joining the social consensus as they pass the liquor store, see a needle, pass by where they used to buy/do or enjoyed using. They can use it as a tool to help them not respond to the trigger in a more healthy way.
JZ has taken the whole of nature, wind, sun, stars, moon, even the earth beneath ones feet and created them as triggers so it is as if one is an alcoholic and they are confronted by a mall full of nothing but liquor stores and bars.
What makes it particularly difficult for one who has been exposed to this is the misunderstanding of others in how this is possible. If someone who was a drug addict tells a friend "I was walking by the park yesterday and I saw a plastic bag with dope on the ground and almost picked it up" The friend would have a fairly good comprehension of the difficulty that they had encountered.
Yet, imagine going out under the stars as you said and your friend says "what a beautiful night" and you say "maybe so, but it still brings back unpleasant/and pleasant memories for me" More then likely, they would find it difficult to imagine how such a mundane thing could cause such a reaction.
This is a part of the isolation an ex-member can feel. learning to cope with, re-frame, re-experience these things can take time, discipline,and often times difficult self examination. The end result one strives for, the freedom to enjoy as they were and are experienced by most is well worth the effort!!
Do you think part of going off to continue on as you said was to occupy your mind with those things (and get your fix?) so that you wouldn't have to entertain what the person had said? If so, did it work? and in hindsight do you think some of those conversations allowed you to enter further and faster into the world you were in?
I know it did for me for many years. i was particularly tenacious and not willing to let go of trying to control the situation and make it better. I can recognize the good and the bad in that, so that is not to say that I regret that aspect of how I dealt with the situation, though when my tenacity became all consuming to the point I could not recognize that was happening to me, those times I regret because it led to poor decisions. While I have an understanding of what it is like to watch helplessly as ones only child slips away from them and that to be consumed with this is a very natural response, I would caution those in a similar situation to be on guard for this as it often is counter productive and plays right into the BS the member is being fed.
Thank you for your response.
I had tried to use the poll part of the thread but it wouldn't work. I was going to ask the question if people thought that they were spiritually/ramtha/jz/group/etc addicted and if so to what degree.When I read this line a light went on.
I would fully agree about the relationship part equivalent to that of having a relationship with ad addict.
BUT, the difference I see is that once an ex student actually "sees" that the group is a cult, they would
never go back.
I might add a caveat here that there are people who just leave a group because they reason it just isn't serving them
anymore only to move on to another group. I have seen several people just drift away from RSE and go straight
into NEXIUM or A Course in Miracles or Landmark. I believe these people have not seen the entire objective side of a group such as RSE and they move on to fill that spiritual need/desire.
IF asn ex student sees the group for what it is, I would caution family members to watch out for any signs of
the ex student wanting to join another group. There is a HUGE void there that I think must not be re-filled, if at all,
for quite some time, in order to fully recover.
If so,Would you have more of a reaction to being referred to as a former spiritual addict or a former cult member?
I would agree with you that there are those who "cult hop" after either an experience that loses the love for RSE or, interventions of various kinds. In some cases, one might think that even though they understood RSE to be a cultic group, they join another, or, one in which has many of the same potentials as RSE had.
This might be similar to a relapse for an addict /alcoholic. Kinda like when the addict/alcoholic abstains and then relapses and says " Well, I don't do drug x&y any more, they just made me crazy and I couldn't handle it, drug z is not the same, I have a grip on it" or "I don't drink tequila any more, that was what made me get out of control so I switched to wine".
Yet, as is said, "relapse is part of recovery", I don't actually agree that it has to be, perhaps it would be better stated that relapse can often be part of recovery. Your perspective, recognizing that as long as their is a huge void there (by the way you must be well on your way being able to include that word in your response lol) will more then likely assist you in your recovery and help you in dealing with "trigger" situations that you mentioned below.
In my opinion, this is one of the more insidious, deviously well conceived aspect of the way in which JZ pushes her particular form of drug.For an ex-Ramster, to even go out for a walk with the dog and see the stars, thoughts come back
to teachings about the stars, the "initiate" moon ( still trying to work through that), Ramtha's spaceship coming,
hours and hours of sitting out in the field gazing at either the east or west horizon, or sitting out in the field all
night in just a t-shirt, not being allowed to go back into the arena for a jacket because "you are greater than
your body".
People of the "normal" world really don't know where
an ex student's mind has been or where it's at now.
In everyday society, there is social stigma with regard to drug abuse, alcohol abuse. Once a person realizes that these things have a potential to literally kill them, they can turn the social stigma to their advantage by joining the social consensus as they pass the liquor store, see a needle, pass by where they used to buy/do or enjoyed using. They can use it as a tool to help them not respond to the trigger in a more healthy way.
JZ has taken the whole of nature, wind, sun, stars, moon, even the earth beneath ones feet and created them as triggers so it is as if one is an alcoholic and they are confronted by a mall full of nothing but liquor stores and bars.
What makes it particularly difficult for one who has been exposed to this is the misunderstanding of others in how this is possible. If someone who was a drug addict tells a friend "I was walking by the park yesterday and I saw a plastic bag with dope on the ground and almost picked it up" The friend would have a fairly good comprehension of the difficulty that they had encountered.
Yet, imagine going out under the stars as you said and your friend says "what a beautiful night" and you say "maybe so, but it still brings back unpleasant/and pleasant memories for me" More then likely, they would find it difficult to imagine how such a mundane thing could cause such a reaction.
This is a part of the isolation an ex-member can feel. learning to cope with, re-frame, re-experience these things can take time, discipline,and often times difficult self examination. The end result one strives for, the freedom to enjoy as they were and are experienced by most is well worth the effort!!
When I said negative empathy, i meant that the person trying to get through to the group member can feel frustrated and that it creates a feedback loop with the member who might recognize the frustrated feelings and go immediately to shelve them as you say by "Blowing them off".I can say from my perspective as having been a student, a student can sense the frustration as well, but being
of not quite sound mind, my tendency for the most part would be to blow the person off.
but, anyone who would try to convince me
that there were red flags or inconsistencies , I would have what little bit of conversation I had with them (and keep it very minimal) and then I would be off to continuing on with my food storage and disciplines.
Do you think part of going off to continue on as you said was to occupy your mind with those things (and get your fix?) so that you wouldn't have to entertain what the person had said? If so, did it work? and in hindsight do you think some of those conversations allowed you to enter further and faster into the world you were in?
You are right here, in fact I feel that because my girlfriend at the time was involved in another group as well as my daughter, it allowed me to focus on them rather then the hellish experience I had just been through. However, on the flip side, while it might give some meaning, it has the potential to take over everything and all aspects of ones life.If an ex member has children and family to tend to, I think that gives them something to center their attention
around. Gives some kind of meaning to daily living.
I know it did for me for many years. i was particularly tenacious and not willing to let go of trying to control the situation and make it better. I can recognize the good and the bad in that, so that is not to say that I regret that aspect of how I dealt with the situation, though when my tenacity became all consuming to the point I could not recognize that was happening to me, those times I regret because it led to poor decisions. While I have an understanding of what it is like to watch helplessly as ones only child slips away from them and that to be consumed with this is a very natural response, I would caution those in a similar situation to be on guard for this as it often is counter productive and plays right into the BS the member is being fed.
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner
-William Mizner
-
Whatchamacallit
- Posts: 880
- Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:17 pm
- Location: Earth
- Contact:
Journey,
It would be helpful if my family posted, so they can speak for themselves. But, this much I can say; they did feel loads of frustration.
We'll never know, but had the family dynamics been different, and spouses with lots of little children weren't involved, perhaps my husband would have just walked. Or, if his personality was different. He's very easygoing. He tried to be supportive of me going, even though he witnessed my turmoil for years, as I struggled with wanting to evolve, and yet not being able to justify the ongoing red flags that I experienced directly or indirectly. Had the tables been turned, I can't say I would have been as tolerant and silently suffering as he was. Or, as my then young children were. We are still healing from it. I spent a lot of time away from them as I traveled back and forth. On the one hand, as a stay-at-home mom, I probably was home more than a mom who had a full time job, when you count hours in a year, so to speak. But, they were used to be being home, and they knew I was leaving for something that I placed as a higher priority, albeit with the best of intentions. I believed the more *I* evolved, the better I was going to be for them, too. We probably all, or almost all, felt that way.
My family politely tolerated my choices, for a long time. At the end, when *I* was getting very, very critical about the drunken wine ceremonies; the verbal abuse, witnessing several physical assaults by "Ramtha" upon students, even with young children present, etc., (I've posted this stuff before), I couldn't justify it anymore.
One day, my previously semi-supportive husband said to me, "I think it's time for you to leave now."
I did.
It may sound too simple, but that's what happened. I honestly believe part of "leaving", for many of us has to do with personality, timing, and EMOTIONAL readiness. I was getting very angry at the wimpy compliance that I was seeing. When "Ramtha" was slandering Dr. Joe, WITHOUT HIS PRESENCE to speak on his own behalf, and then elicting the students to SCREAM in retort, "We don't need him (Joe D), so *uck him!!!!" , over and over and over again, like mindless robots, that was the final straw for me. I was disgusted beyond words. I sat right up front, NOT participating, but observing this appalling behavior of these mindless, robotical fanatics, and knew it was a cult. I had been researching quietly from home, googling, "Ramtha cult fraud JZ Knight" and getting quite an education. I talked around town when I was out there, to the locals. I met some very influencial people in Yelm, who all had a private tale to tell. Information I have never repeated on this forum. This is why I say, to me, it's irrelevant whether there is or isn't a Ramtha. By ACTIONS alone, that place should be shut down. Period.
Yes, frustrating on many levels. Getting our own families back in order, healing, healing. Making up for lost time as best we can. Seeing the cup as half full, not half empty so we don't take the path of depression. We really DO have our entire life ahead of us, so we can wallow in negativity, or live every moment with gratitude that we're not among the DEAD RSE students, who gave their lives, and some also their fortunes, to a LIE.
I know for myself, I'm not an addictive personality. I was genuinely willing to listen to the message; because I was vulnerable due to my own clairvoyance. The clairvoyance hasn't left me, even though RSE is a time of my past; a closed chapter. One I wish I had avoided, but as many others who make assorted mistakes in their lives, I sure made a costly one; in time and money and family-time .
It would be helpful if my family posted, so they can speak for themselves. But, this much I can say; they did feel loads of frustration.
We'll never know, but had the family dynamics been different, and spouses with lots of little children weren't involved, perhaps my husband would have just walked. Or, if his personality was different. He's very easygoing. He tried to be supportive of me going, even though he witnessed my turmoil for years, as I struggled with wanting to evolve, and yet not being able to justify the ongoing red flags that I experienced directly or indirectly. Had the tables been turned, I can't say I would have been as tolerant and silently suffering as he was. Or, as my then young children were. We are still healing from it. I spent a lot of time away from them as I traveled back and forth. On the one hand, as a stay-at-home mom, I probably was home more than a mom who had a full time job, when you count hours in a year, so to speak. But, they were used to be being home, and they knew I was leaving for something that I placed as a higher priority, albeit with the best of intentions. I believed the more *I* evolved, the better I was going to be for them, too. We probably all, or almost all, felt that way.
My family politely tolerated my choices, for a long time. At the end, when *I* was getting very, very critical about the drunken wine ceremonies; the verbal abuse, witnessing several physical assaults by "Ramtha" upon students, even with young children present, etc., (I've posted this stuff before), I couldn't justify it anymore.
One day, my previously semi-supportive husband said to me, "I think it's time for you to leave now."
I did.
It may sound too simple, but that's what happened. I honestly believe part of "leaving", for many of us has to do with personality, timing, and EMOTIONAL readiness. I was getting very angry at the wimpy compliance that I was seeing. When "Ramtha" was slandering Dr. Joe, WITHOUT HIS PRESENCE to speak on his own behalf, and then elicting the students to SCREAM in retort, "We don't need him (Joe D), so *uck him!!!!" , over and over and over again, like mindless robots, that was the final straw for me. I was disgusted beyond words. I sat right up front, NOT participating, but observing this appalling behavior of these mindless, robotical fanatics, and knew it was a cult. I had been researching quietly from home, googling, "Ramtha cult fraud JZ Knight" and getting quite an education. I talked around town when I was out there, to the locals. I met some very influencial people in Yelm, who all had a private tale to tell. Information I have never repeated on this forum. This is why I say, to me, it's irrelevant whether there is or isn't a Ramtha. By ACTIONS alone, that place should be shut down. Period.
Yes, frustrating on many levels. Getting our own families back in order, healing, healing. Making up for lost time as best we can. Seeing the cup as half full, not half empty so we don't take the path of depression. We really DO have our entire life ahead of us, so we can wallow in negativity, or live every moment with gratitude that we're not among the DEAD RSE students, who gave their lives, and some also their fortunes, to a LIE.
I know for myself, I'm not an addictive personality. I was genuinely willing to listen to the message; because I was vulnerable due to my own clairvoyance. The clairvoyance hasn't left me, even though RSE is a time of my past; a closed chapter. One I wish I had avoided, but as many others who make assorted mistakes in their lives, I sure made a costly one; in time and money and family-time .
Places in the Heart
Journey, Tree, and all~
Thanks for your timely post. Your reflection upon how you might have chosen your words, actions, or lack of action ... differently regarding how you might have saved or prevented lost time, years, money, but more than that, the slow parasitic growth that in time overgrows one's genuine or authentic personality, are most certainly a common experience.
In my case, the very tolerant spouse, who chose to allow, to trust in my assessment and judgment, character, intelligence, and wisdom, was tested time and time again. The first time that chicken little said the world was going to come to an end in the Spring of 1988, we drastically altered our entire life and lifestyle. We sold our home, moved out into the country, obtained horses, livestock, horded and stored years of food, made shelters, pulled out of our stocks, investments, pension plans cashed in. We were happy in that we were doing it together, but slowly, even though loved ones in our family, friends, community warned us, we felt we knew better. After all, our source was THE source come to help us.
So, more directly to answer your question, we have experienced both sides of the Journey to true Enlightenment (which is finding one's way out of the belief and 'knowingness' (cough cough) to make what we were told in the "Days to Come tapes, the Last Walz of The Tyrants book, and the many events.
It is now past 20 years since the absolute May deadline came and went. There have been various cycles, contradictions, without explanation initially.
More than any monetary, relationship, loss in family, friends (or loss OF them in most cases), was the damage it has done to the entire belief system. That is, the ability to belief in anyone or anything from any religion, organization, group or even well meaning professionals offering help.
In the beginning, I told myself (chronic infection of ramthaisms) that this was not a bad thing, indeed it may have been all worth it, if I never again lost or sold my heart and soul to those telling me (and those I considered friends) any form of Truth, or way.
This is EXACTLY like interacting with addicts of any kind, or being one. Even now, I realize how I could likely never understand how it all happened, and this was all without packing up and moving to Yland!
As Tree shared, not only nature, but wine, and MUSIC of various types that were played hypnotically over and over at events or for consecutive events, are associations I have to block EXACTLY like the irritating Ads or Banners that pop up on many websites or forums. I first must consciously become aware, "Oh! I'm thinking about the school!" Then, I assess if it is pleasant or unpleasant to contemplate whatever associative memory has been triggered. What results ultimately, in a matter of minutes, is that my so-called emotional state and otherwise, how I "was" feeling, going about my day, has been interrupted, very subtly.
What is different about the comparison to an addictive behavior or substance, is like Tree shared: I don't usually have any desire to go and repeat the experience. What happens in my case is: I become self-conscious, embarrassed, or down right 'sad' that I allowed myself to be caught up in such things, that over time, never proved themselves.
To Swami and others, this was not a case where I could not over time do the so-called disciplines, somehow with the time, effort, dedication and desire, I was able to master all of the disciplines (so called). It was something I believed would help me be a better person, would be able to help provide for my spouse and family. I'd eventually be able to develop all the so-called gifts-of-the spirit that were promised for those who kept at it.
Like you, Journey, I now, even this weekend in September, regret or re-examine my past, questioning if and how I might have done things differently. My disappointment, at times can be down-right depressing. I will not get back those years as a parent with children. They grow up, and instead of recognizing the intention, effort, time/expense spent to better oneself and provide, they see THEIR reality! Based on their own Quantum - Observer (tongue in cheek), and their own reality. They are the true Masters. But it is too late. The choices that I assume responsibility for by buying into all the immediate and urgent things to become sovereign, in this world that the other 6.9999273384438 Billion people live in, that didn't feel compelled or drawn to suspend their disbelief and warnings. Believing that this wise and pure soul was the pure-channel and voice that was actually speaking to us (unlike the put downs about other channelers, religions, sources-- even science originally), is hard to understand.
As I've shared before in other threads and previous forums, it was an ERA (not as in equal rights, but a period of time, a 'season' in life that this was allowed to take root in). The post 60's left the 70's and 80's ripe for "The Age of Aquarius".
Like others have shared, I was also involved with Unity Churches simple affirmations, which set the stage for acceptance into the Church Universal & Triumpant. It too seemed innocent enough, and promised that hook of being born into this world to help with the 144,000 or some such prophecized 'specialness'. By merely taking oaths, dues/memberships, one could become a Keeper of the Flame. Learn secret teachings and divine sciences, which would unlock all mysteries and develop our true purpose.
The affirmations became 'decrees' and 'fiats' at the CUT with Mark & Elizabeth. Like CSE, there was the decree and Pearl of Wisdom dictation for world sponsors to sponsor the reincarnating souls, precious who needed special training. Dr. Elizabeth Caspari and her work with Montessori was the hook we needed then. A sibling of mine, whom I later felt guilty about introducing him into this wonderful answer and priviledge to serve through the organization, dropped out of engineering school and was told he was some incarnation of someone famous (along with me, of course, haha) and he became a Montessori Teacher. I helped him move into One Broadmoor (La Terrelle) their mansion where they were literally at the base of Pikes Peak. It totally altered the direction of his life.
Later, I tried to gently share with him what I had discovered, and what was my experience, but like your experience with your daughter, it became fuel to drive him further into the cult.
These things have a way of relapsing in the course of years and decades. Even after all that personal experience, there remained (just like RSE) the hope and or possibility that maybe this (crazy as it was) was at least partially true. So, when ECP would come up with change in holy sites, and move everything to California, or later Montana, one didn't think it was totally crazy, in fact, it was made to be divine and purposeful.
But there again too, all the 'disciplines' and great work and focus, and action, money, dedication, never ever changed any world event, nor resulted in any prophecy ever coming true (except for those that happened independently, and credit was given posthumously).
When we saw how the education, methods, and credit for Dr. Caspari's work were being inextricably combined for a time with the school, some red flags went on. I will say, there was not the same overt level of pressure for financial commitment for that organization, it was kindler and gentler in that way.
The whole diet, macrobiotic diets, and organic farms, and resurgence of memories of being told the Beatles were the 4 horsemen of the apocolypse, and the 'sacred science and history of rhythm' were remembered.
Meanwhile... back at the ranch (is that SM or TM now too?) lol
The whole global expansion and return to marketing events, and paying to be closer to the speaker or prophet, by any name, was certainly eclipsed by the exhorbitant amount of many someone willing to pay to listen to anyone for an hour took things to a new level. As used to be said on stage at the school, "... that's maahketing, Ba-by!" and so it is.
There are now so many triggers in music (atmospheric, movie sound tracks, 60's 70's 80's, etc) in the usurping and claiming credit for in nature, science, psychology, and all manner of eastern, western, and new-age cult meditations, yoga, you name it.. it is impossible not to sometimes think about it. Maybe that was the whole point?
Our intentions were there, and they were loving, and sincere. I have tried to re-process all of this, without throwing the baby out with the bathwater (as we say often). There was no doubt or betrayal dramas going on. There was dedication, while we sat in the dusty indoor horse arena, coming down with respiratory, pneumonia, asthmatic involvements with previously healthy people... all while divorce trial was going on. There was no video in those days, so we did the huffin and puffin and put rocks on our heads, and when we were ready, we got to 'earn our wings' for the ability to listen to guided imagery, and auto suggestion of mental exercises, and illumination through imaginary gymnastics (flips, turns, ). We learned how to travel thru wormholes thru the All seeing Eye to different parts of the cosmos, different universes.
We were given special names, for our collective group energy. We could invest in fleece capes, and special pillows (with waterproof covers/handles). We consumed pounds of Ramen noodles, dried soups, and spent hours, days and nights on Focus Beach or Paradise Beach.
We endured bizarre war-cries, and some individuals that started speaking gibberish, or mumbling like demonic zombies (True!). They were the fanatics, not us. We were always the brightest and best. No matter how many times you started over in the school, after leaving or not having the time, or funds, or ability to return... your group was always the BEST that had ever been.
For all these reasons, and many, many more...
I felt compelled to share a portion of my story. I know what it is to secretly, quietly try to rationalize to oneself, with the gift of hind-site, the profound consequences that doing the great work for decades, and believing and persisting (you cannot fail the school, only quit)... had upon relationships of all kinds. Not just with one's children, but close friends, family.
I just wanted to share this, so that whoever you might be that experiences sadness, regret, depression, or worse, think you are alone. It was a price and a result of altering core beliefs, and in having to live with the consequences, that what one so wanted to believe in or was true, was no different than any other 'we have the only true answers, and can truly help you' system or organization on our planet.
I never believed I was in a cult during the time I was an active member. It is my personal experience that even I wouldn't listen to very credible information about it, by multiple attempts and loving individuals. It is true, that being confined inside tall fencing with razor wire, and mandatory participation meant compliance in allowing oneself to be blindfolded for long periods of time, initially took a while to get used to. Especially when helicopters, planes would slowly circle above the ranch. And tanks, mortar, and gunfire sounds could be heard easily from near by military exercises, that took a while to condition oneself too.
I enjoyed the belief system in which we were invested in. There was a prolonged hope and literal investment that one was climbing Jacobs ladder, or being guided through a process of ancient wisdom. It was like an interactive novel. After reading dozens of renowned metaphysical, occult, secret classics, one finally had made the 'connection' with the Masters, the Ascended Masters, the Great White Brotherhood of Ascended Men and Women who had been helping mankind for centuries and millinea.
It was not uncommon to encounter people at events that claimed they were 'walk ins' from other planets, and almost all of us had experienced private, personal anomolous, mystical experiences, dreams, clairvoyance, audience, many saw auras, or claimed to have telekinesis, it was like the X-Men movies... everyone was drawn to this special place from seemingly all over the world that had been searching for 'home' or 'the explanation and answers' to their own PERSONAL gifts, abilites, or vested beliefs in their unexplained events throughout their whole life.
I wish the polls worked on the site too, there are other questions we could ask.
Now, while I am happy, and moved on with my life, I must daily live with the consequences of my priorities in putting the Great Work first in my life, my family, my relationships, my career, and in my regard and reputation. It would have been great if even some of the attributes, skill sets, or at least a great teaching wrapped it all up, and put everything into meaning, and true evolution. (And having personal checks for most of our decades of paid events returned to us would be an awesome nest egg to start over and live wiser the rest of our lives). Alas, no signs of that happening, guess we were small potatoes to the auction attendees.
Thanks for your timely post. Your reflection upon how you might have chosen your words, actions, or lack of action ... differently regarding how you might have saved or prevented lost time, years, money, but more than that, the slow parasitic growth that in time overgrows one's genuine or authentic personality, are most certainly a common experience.
In my case, the very tolerant spouse, who chose to allow, to trust in my assessment and judgment, character, intelligence, and wisdom, was tested time and time again. The first time that chicken little said the world was going to come to an end in the Spring of 1988, we drastically altered our entire life and lifestyle. We sold our home, moved out into the country, obtained horses, livestock, horded and stored years of food, made shelters, pulled out of our stocks, investments, pension plans cashed in. We were happy in that we were doing it together, but slowly, even though loved ones in our family, friends, community warned us, we felt we knew better. After all, our source was THE source come to help us.
So, more directly to answer your question, we have experienced both sides of the Journey to true Enlightenment (which is finding one's way out of the belief and 'knowingness' (cough cough) to make what we were told in the "Days to Come tapes, the Last Walz of The Tyrants book, and the many events.
It is now past 20 years since the absolute May deadline came and went. There have been various cycles, contradictions, without explanation initially.
More than any monetary, relationship, loss in family, friends (or loss OF them in most cases), was the damage it has done to the entire belief system. That is, the ability to belief in anyone or anything from any religion, organization, group or even well meaning professionals offering help.
In the beginning, I told myself (chronic infection of ramthaisms) that this was not a bad thing, indeed it may have been all worth it, if I never again lost or sold my heart and soul to those telling me (and those I considered friends) any form of Truth, or way.
This is EXACTLY like interacting with addicts of any kind, or being one. Even now, I realize how I could likely never understand how it all happened, and this was all without packing up and moving to Yland!
As Tree shared, not only nature, but wine, and MUSIC of various types that were played hypnotically over and over at events or for consecutive events, are associations I have to block EXACTLY like the irritating Ads or Banners that pop up on many websites or forums. I first must consciously become aware, "Oh! I'm thinking about the school!" Then, I assess if it is pleasant or unpleasant to contemplate whatever associative memory has been triggered. What results ultimately, in a matter of minutes, is that my so-called emotional state and otherwise, how I "was" feeling, going about my day, has been interrupted, very subtly.
What is different about the comparison to an addictive behavior or substance, is like Tree shared: I don't usually have any desire to go and repeat the experience. What happens in my case is: I become self-conscious, embarrassed, or down right 'sad' that I allowed myself to be caught up in such things, that over time, never proved themselves.
To Swami and others, this was not a case where I could not over time do the so-called disciplines, somehow with the time, effort, dedication and desire, I was able to master all of the disciplines (so called). It was something I believed would help me be a better person, would be able to help provide for my spouse and family. I'd eventually be able to develop all the so-called gifts-of-the spirit that were promised for those who kept at it.
Like you, Journey, I now, even this weekend in September, regret or re-examine my past, questioning if and how I might have done things differently. My disappointment, at times can be down-right depressing. I will not get back those years as a parent with children. They grow up, and instead of recognizing the intention, effort, time/expense spent to better oneself and provide, they see THEIR reality! Based on their own Quantum - Observer (tongue in cheek), and their own reality. They are the true Masters. But it is too late. The choices that I assume responsibility for by buying into all the immediate and urgent things to become sovereign, in this world that the other 6.9999273384438 Billion people live in, that didn't feel compelled or drawn to suspend their disbelief and warnings. Believing that this wise and pure soul was the pure-channel and voice that was actually speaking to us (unlike the put downs about other channelers, religions, sources-- even science originally), is hard to understand.
As I've shared before in other threads and previous forums, it was an ERA (not as in equal rights, but a period of time, a 'season' in life that this was allowed to take root in). The post 60's left the 70's and 80's ripe for "The Age of Aquarius".
Like others have shared, I was also involved with Unity Churches simple affirmations, which set the stage for acceptance into the Church Universal & Triumpant. It too seemed innocent enough, and promised that hook of being born into this world to help with the 144,000 or some such prophecized 'specialness'. By merely taking oaths, dues/memberships, one could become a Keeper of the Flame. Learn secret teachings and divine sciences, which would unlock all mysteries and develop our true purpose.
The affirmations became 'decrees' and 'fiats' at the CUT with Mark & Elizabeth. Like CSE, there was the decree and Pearl of Wisdom dictation for world sponsors to sponsor the reincarnating souls, precious who needed special training. Dr. Elizabeth Caspari and her work with Montessori was the hook we needed then. A sibling of mine, whom I later felt guilty about introducing him into this wonderful answer and priviledge to serve through the organization, dropped out of engineering school and was told he was some incarnation of someone famous (along with me, of course, haha) and he became a Montessori Teacher. I helped him move into One Broadmoor (La Terrelle) their mansion where they were literally at the base of Pikes Peak. It totally altered the direction of his life.
Later, I tried to gently share with him what I had discovered, and what was my experience, but like your experience with your daughter, it became fuel to drive him further into the cult.
These things have a way of relapsing in the course of years and decades. Even after all that personal experience, there remained (just like RSE) the hope and or possibility that maybe this (crazy as it was) was at least partially true. So, when ECP would come up with change in holy sites, and move everything to California, or later Montana, one didn't think it was totally crazy, in fact, it was made to be divine and purposeful.
But there again too, all the 'disciplines' and great work and focus, and action, money, dedication, never ever changed any world event, nor resulted in any prophecy ever coming true (except for those that happened independently, and credit was given posthumously).
When we saw how the education, methods, and credit for Dr. Caspari's work were being inextricably combined for a time with the school, some red flags went on. I will say, there was not the same overt level of pressure for financial commitment for that organization, it was kindler and gentler in that way.
The whole diet, macrobiotic diets, and organic farms, and resurgence of memories of being told the Beatles were the 4 horsemen of the apocolypse, and the 'sacred science and history of rhythm' were remembered.
Meanwhile... back at the ranch (is that SM or TM now too?) lol
The whole global expansion and return to marketing events, and paying to be closer to the speaker or prophet, by any name, was certainly eclipsed by the exhorbitant amount of many someone willing to pay to listen to anyone for an hour took things to a new level. As used to be said on stage at the school, "... that's maahketing, Ba-by!" and so it is.
There are now so many triggers in music (atmospheric, movie sound tracks, 60's 70's 80's, etc) in the usurping and claiming credit for in nature, science, psychology, and all manner of eastern, western, and new-age cult meditations, yoga, you name it.. it is impossible not to sometimes think about it. Maybe that was the whole point?
Our intentions were there, and they were loving, and sincere. I have tried to re-process all of this, without throwing the baby out with the bathwater (as we say often). There was no doubt or betrayal dramas going on. There was dedication, while we sat in the dusty indoor horse arena, coming down with respiratory, pneumonia, asthmatic involvements with previously healthy people... all while divorce trial was going on. There was no video in those days, so we did the huffin and puffin and put rocks on our heads, and when we were ready, we got to 'earn our wings' for the ability to listen to guided imagery, and auto suggestion of mental exercises, and illumination through imaginary gymnastics (flips, turns, ). We learned how to travel thru wormholes thru the All seeing Eye to different parts of the cosmos, different universes.
We were given special names, for our collective group energy. We could invest in fleece capes, and special pillows (with waterproof covers/handles). We consumed pounds of Ramen noodles, dried soups, and spent hours, days and nights on Focus Beach or Paradise Beach.
We endured bizarre war-cries, and some individuals that started speaking gibberish, or mumbling like demonic zombies (True!). They were the fanatics, not us. We were always the brightest and best. No matter how many times you started over in the school, after leaving or not having the time, or funds, or ability to return... your group was always the BEST that had ever been.
For all these reasons, and many, many more...
I felt compelled to share a portion of my story. I know what it is to secretly, quietly try to rationalize to oneself, with the gift of hind-site, the profound consequences that doing the great work for decades, and believing and persisting (you cannot fail the school, only quit)... had upon relationships of all kinds. Not just with one's children, but close friends, family.
I just wanted to share this, so that whoever you might be that experiences sadness, regret, depression, or worse, think you are alone. It was a price and a result of altering core beliefs, and in having to live with the consequences, that what one so wanted to believe in or was true, was no different than any other 'we have the only true answers, and can truly help you' system or organization on our planet.
I never believed I was in a cult during the time I was an active member. It is my personal experience that even I wouldn't listen to very credible information about it, by multiple attempts and loving individuals. It is true, that being confined inside tall fencing with razor wire, and mandatory participation meant compliance in allowing oneself to be blindfolded for long periods of time, initially took a while to get used to. Especially when helicopters, planes would slowly circle above the ranch. And tanks, mortar, and gunfire sounds could be heard easily from near by military exercises, that took a while to condition oneself too.
I enjoyed the belief system in which we were invested in. There was a prolonged hope and literal investment that one was climbing Jacobs ladder, or being guided through a process of ancient wisdom. It was like an interactive novel. After reading dozens of renowned metaphysical, occult, secret classics, one finally had made the 'connection' with the Masters, the Ascended Masters, the Great White Brotherhood of Ascended Men and Women who had been helping mankind for centuries and millinea.
It was not uncommon to encounter people at events that claimed they were 'walk ins' from other planets, and almost all of us had experienced private, personal anomolous, mystical experiences, dreams, clairvoyance, audience, many saw auras, or claimed to have telekinesis, it was like the X-Men movies... everyone was drawn to this special place from seemingly all over the world that had been searching for 'home' or 'the explanation and answers' to their own PERSONAL gifts, abilites, or vested beliefs in their unexplained events throughout their whole life.
I wish the polls worked on the site too, there are other questions we could ask.
Now, while I am happy, and moved on with my life, I must daily live with the consequences of my priorities in putting the Great Work first in my life, my family, my relationships, my career, and in my regard and reputation. It would have been great if even some of the attributes, skill sets, or at least a great teaching wrapped it all up, and put everything into meaning, and true evolution. (And having personal checks for most of our decades of paid events returned to us would be an awesome nest egg to start over and live wiser the rest of our lives). Alas, no signs of that happening, guess we were small potatoes to the auction attendees.
OMG See & E-
What a moving post.
wow.
I do feel a need to comment here:
half of my music cd's for free on e-bay because I cannot bear to even be near them.
I would rather throw them away, but someone , somewhere, will get some use out of them.
One more thing you said See and E, That I cannot stress enough to people who think they want to help me
and don't really have a grasp:
So far, I cannot even FATHOM another belief system.
When I get "too far out there" my friend puts on a non-denominational Thich Nhat Hahn podcast about a very broad
topic, but at most, I can only stand to listen for about a half an hour. But at least it is without triggers.
I don't think I will EVER believe in any one belief system ever again.
I even considered my grandfather's atheism, but that still is a belief system.
JourneyfromRamthaland-
Last night, I could only read half of your post before I had another total meltdown.
Meltdown in the way that NO ONE has ever put in words like you did regarding the depth of the triggers............
JZ has taken the whole of nature, wind, sun, stars, moon, even the earth beneath ones feet and created them as triggers so it is as if one is an alcoholic and they are confronted by a mall full of nothing but liquor stores and bars.
I could not read past this part last night after I read it to my partner, and I just broke down.
After all, this is the one person that has truly seen how exiting this group, what this has done to me
mentally, emotionally, and physically, yet here was a quote , that said it all.
Every time I look at the sea, the sky, the trees, the sun, the moon, it is a constant reminder of "the teachings"
and how much mental work I have to do from un-hooking from the RSE trigger, sort through my brain for some
ordinary explanation, and finally feel the wires re-wire themselves in my brain.
And that is not even including the emotional aspect.
For the most part, I try to keep that at bay.
But sometimes, the trigger is just WAYYY too much and I have to monitor as best I can, to not get too deep
into the mental and emotional pain. It is very tiring.
Now I now why drinking could be an option.
Thank whomever and whatever for the creative influences of this board and forum.
I don't think I would be making is at well as I have without the support of this board
and without the innate strength of tenacity within my being.
What I feel for is the people who are not quite as strong in the nature of their being.
They must be in looney bins or self-medicating.
One of the worst parts though, that I felt a couple of days ago (being so despondant)
was that in reflecting on the teachings of suicide, I now believe they are a crock of &^%&.
So that was ONE teaching resolved. Probably not the best time to come to that
conclusion, odd as it was, but another thread unraveled.
Thank you journey and See & E for your thought provoking and kind posts.
What a moving post.
wow.
I do feel a need to comment here:
This is so Terribly on going for me, plus the fact that I was a classically trained pianist since the age of 4. But to DAILY, constantly battle the blubs, the songs in the mall, the songs in the stores, the trailers of the end of movies wherever they choose to put them...it is freaking ENDLESS. In fact, just this day, I am putting up overThere are now so many triggers in music (atmospheric, movie sound tracks, 60's 70's 80's, etc) in the usurping and claiming credit for in nature, science, psychology, and all manner of eastern, western, and new-age cult meditations, yoga, you name it.. it is impossible not to sometimes think about it. Maybe that was the whole point?
half of my music cd's for free on e-bay because I cannot bear to even be near them.
I would rather throw them away, but someone , somewhere, will get some use out of them.
One more thing you said See and E, That I cannot stress enough to people who think they want to help me
and don't really have a grasp:
THIS, I have never seen put so aptly.More than any monetary, relationship, loss in family, friends (or loss OF them in most cases), was the damage it has done to the entire belief system. That is, the ability to belief in anyone or anything from any religion, organization, group or even well meaning professionals offering help.
So far, I cannot even FATHOM another belief system.
When I get "too far out there" my friend puts on a non-denominational Thich Nhat Hahn podcast about a very broad
topic, but at most, I can only stand to listen for about a half an hour. But at least it is without triggers.
I don't think I will EVER believe in any one belief system ever again.
I even considered my grandfather's atheism, but that still is a belief system.
JourneyfromRamthaland-
Last night, I could only read half of your post before I had another total meltdown.
Meltdown in the way that NO ONE has ever put in words like you did regarding the depth of the triggers............
In everyday society, there is social stigma with regard to drug abuse, alcohol abuse. Once a person realizes that these things have a potential to literally kill them, they can turn the social stigma to their advantage by joining the social consensus as they pass the liquor store, see a needle, pass by where they used to buy/do or enjoyed using. They can use it as a tool to help them not respond to the trigger in a more healthy way.
JZ has taken the whole of nature, wind, sun, stars, moon, even the earth beneath ones feet and created them as triggers so it is as if one is an alcoholic and they are confronted by a mall full of nothing but liquor stores and bars.
What makes it particularly difficult for one who has been exposed to this is the misunderstanding of others in how this is possible. If someone who was a drug addict tells a friend "I was walking by the park yesterday and I saw a plastic bag with dope on the ground and almost picked it up" The friend would have a fairly good comprehension of the difficulty that they had encountered.
Yet, imagine going out under the stars as you said and your friend says "what a beautiful night" and you say "maybe so, but it still brings back unpleasant/and pleasant memories for me" More then likely, they would find it difficult to imagine how such a mundane thing could cause such a reaction.
JZ has taken the whole of nature, wind, sun, stars, moon, even the earth beneath ones feet and created them as triggers so it is as if one is an alcoholic and they are confronted by a mall full of nothing but liquor stores and bars.
I could not read past this part last night after I read it to my partner, and I just broke down.
After all, this is the one person that has truly seen how exiting this group, what this has done to me
mentally, emotionally, and physically, yet here was a quote , that said it all.
Every time I look at the sea, the sky, the trees, the sun, the moon, it is a constant reminder of "the teachings"
and how much mental work I have to do from un-hooking from the RSE trigger, sort through my brain for some
ordinary explanation, and finally feel the wires re-wire themselves in my brain.
And that is not even including the emotional aspect.
For the most part, I try to keep that at bay.
But sometimes, the trigger is just WAYYY too much and I have to monitor as best I can, to not get too deep
into the mental and emotional pain. It is very tiring.
Now I now why drinking could be an option.
Thank whomever and whatever for the creative influences of this board and forum.
I don't think I would be making is at well as I have without the support of this board
and without the innate strength of tenacity within my being.
What I feel for is the people who are not quite as strong in the nature of their being.
They must be in looney bins or self-medicating.
One of the worst parts though, that I felt a couple of days ago (being so despondant)
was that in reflecting on the teachings of suicide, I now believe they are a crock of &^%&.
So that was ONE teaching resolved. Probably not the best time to come to that
conclusion, odd as it was, but another thread unraveled.
Thank you journey and See & E for your thought provoking and kind posts.
To answer your question, no, I did not leave the conversation to go occupy my mind with something else.Quote:
but, anyone who would try to convince me
that there were red flags or inconsistencies , I would have what little bit of conversation I had with them (and keep it very minimal) and then I would be off to continuing on with my food storage and disciplines.
Do you think part of going off to continue on as you said was to occupy your mind with those things (and get your fix?) so that you wouldn't have to entertain what the person had said? If so, did it work? and in hindsight do you think some of those conversations allowed you to enter further and faster into the world you were in?
To me, what the person was suggesting was just total hogwash and a waste of my time.
I had/have better things to do.
and to answer the second part,
yes, I do think some of those conversations of truly well meaning people pushed me even further into my
'all knowing'
(uh, yeah right) belief system. If there was EVER any kind of pushing I felt from an antagonist, I would slam doors shut in my mind in regards to that person and get on with my
"sovereign" life. I did not want to waste my precious time on them, NOR did I want their
conversation to "fuel any doubt" that would have been construed that way by a teaching.
For instance: "If you talk to people who do not understand the teachings, you are attracting 'frequency specific' doubt
to yourself, therefore doubting than you can do anything!" So, all in all, it was best to stay away
from those situations because if you DID attract that, it was a flaw in yourself and your thinking and "you freaking loser" was implied (never really a teaching, per se, just implied).
come to think of this, as an after thought,
I think people speaking to me I took as a direct attack on me and my beliefs.
I think in hindsight, a better way might be to, let's say a non RSE student or family
member came to visit (even the thought of that would be revolting as in, OMG! here we go
again! do I HAVE to do this??)
if the family member would just have "how is the weather, what have you been up to"
blase conversation, possilby asking how the weather affected my garden this year, or
what affects the rainfall had on my well or nearby river (all things associcated with food
storage and future survival, but in an indirect way)...
if they would just have done that little bit, seem a bit interested in that I thought the garden was terribly
depleted this year due to so much rain which in turn would affect the crops, I might have been more open.
And then, keep the visit short, let's say 20 minutes, half an hour tops,
then leave some kind of flyer.
I would have to think this flyer part out.
But it could not be so "in your face".
Maybe along the lines of "have you ever thought about......?" (and NOT : about what cults are!)
Leave some kind of reading material. That would seem passive in nature.
not so bold as to be testing my brainwashed thinking.
I don't think some audio tape or CD would be the trick either because the amount of Ramtha CD's
and videos there are. My brain would just associate the auditory mode with Ramtha CD's.
Any, my two cents today.
Tree
I think people speaking to me I took as a direct attack on me and my beliefs.
I think in hindsight, a better way might be to, let's say a non RSE student or family
member came to visit (even the thought of that would be revolting as in, OMG! here we go
again! do I HAVE to do this??)
if the family member would just have "how is the weather, what have you been up to"
blase conversation, possilby asking how the weather affected my garden this year, or
what affects the rainfall had on my well or nearby river (all things associcated with food
storage and future survival, but in an indirect way)...
if they would just have done that little bit, seem a bit interested in that I thought the garden was terribly
depleted this year due to so much rain which in turn would affect the crops, I might have been more open.
And then, keep the visit short, let's say 20 minutes, half an hour tops,
then leave some kind of flyer.
I would have to think this flyer part out.
But it could not be so "in your face".
Maybe along the lines of "have you ever thought about......?" (and NOT : about what cults are!)
Leave some kind of reading material. That would seem passive in nature.
not so bold as to be testing my brainwashed thinking.
I don't think some audio tape or CD would be the trick either because the amount of Ramtha CD's
and videos there are. My brain would just associate the auditory mode with Ramtha CD's.
Any, my two cents today.
Tree
""""More than any monetary, relationship, loss in family, friends (or loss OF them in most cases), was the damage it has done to the entire belief system. That is, the ability to belief in anyone or anything from any religion, organization, group or even well meaning professionals offering help. """
Many years prior to my going to RSE, I was involved in community activities and to a degree, politics as it relates to the conservation of this world. What I've found during this critical election year is that even something as simple as watching a speaker and seeing the crowd roar brings RSE back to mind. There is still a lot of music I cannot listen to, and that is difficult since I was also a trained musician. However, the roaring of the candidate's supporters is a huge trigger for me. The difficult part of it is that I want to be involved in these things, yet my interest is muted due to the "RSE" mind "interruptions." It takes time. You think you're there, and wham, something you'd never thought would be a trigger - is.
Many years prior to my going to RSE, I was involved in community activities and to a degree, politics as it relates to the conservation of this world. What I've found during this critical election year is that even something as simple as watching a speaker and seeing the crowd roar brings RSE back to mind. There is still a lot of music I cannot listen to, and that is difficult since I was also a trained musician. However, the roaring of the candidate's supporters is a huge trigger for me. The difficult part of it is that I want to be involved in these things, yet my interest is muted due to the "RSE" mind "interruptions." It takes time. You think you're there, and wham, something you'd never thought would be a trigger - is.
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972
-
Whatchamacallit
- Posts: 880
- Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:17 pm
- Location: Earth
- Contact:
As far as a "belief system", I just don't want one after all of that RSE drama.
I'm willing to take my chances, because if there is a God (and I feel there is), then that God can see my heart. I'm not perfect, but I know I'm a "good person"...and that's good enough for me.
If there is no God, then it doesn't matter, anyway !
So ultimately, I end up in the same place; I'm here NOW, and I am living my life. Sounds simplistic, perhaps, but it works for me.
More to say but I have to go.
I'm willing to take my chances, because if there is a God (and I feel there is), then that God can see my heart. I'm not perfect, but I know I'm a "good person"...and that's good enough for me.
If there is no God, then it doesn't matter, anyway !
So ultimately, I end up in the same place; I'm here NOW, and I am living my life. Sounds simplistic, perhaps, but it works for me.
More to say but I have to go.
G2G-
wow. interesting trigger. And what a bummer as you seem quite the go-getter in the
activist. mild, good sense of the word.
I just avoid the crowds in the mall.
Don't know how I would do at a football game. yikes!
I did have a thought today walking the dog.
I think it was wise for me to move as the last 2 psychiatric reports concluded that
Yelm was a toxic environment for me.
So moving to somewhere totally foreign to me was in my best mental interests
(but not financially. At this point, I need full mental capacities to get all the other
things back in order when I am able).
So, I have very different trees here (thank god) but still some firs, but not quite like
in Yelm.
But as I was walking, I was thinking of journey through ramtha land's post about
liqour stores and bars being literally everywhere for a recovering RSE student in the form
of nature and the "teachings".
Well, I walk by these trees today and the teaching of Shambala comes to mind.
How many times have we heard:
"What does the tree know that you don't know?"
over and over again, until you feel like a retard cuz you are totally not getting it.
I look at that tree today and I realize
"that is the stupidest teaching EVER! "
It makes absolutely NO sense.
And for all those years, I always wondered
"what does the tree know that I don't know."
Well, this Tree knows a helluva a lot more than that
self imposed genius in that French wanna-be-Chateau-styled-house.
Some days, I can hardly wait to see how this whole story pans out.
Other days, I could care less.
wow. interesting trigger. And what a bummer as you seem quite the go-getter in the
activist. mild, good sense of the word.
I just avoid the crowds in the mall.
Don't know how I would do at a football game. yikes!
I did have a thought today walking the dog.
I think it was wise for me to move as the last 2 psychiatric reports concluded that
Yelm was a toxic environment for me.
So moving to somewhere totally foreign to me was in my best mental interests
(but not financially. At this point, I need full mental capacities to get all the other
things back in order when I am able).
So, I have very different trees here (thank god) but still some firs, but not quite like
in Yelm.
But as I was walking, I was thinking of journey through ramtha land's post about
liqour stores and bars being literally everywhere for a recovering RSE student in the form
of nature and the "teachings".
Well, I walk by these trees today and the teaching of Shambala comes to mind.
How many times have we heard:
"What does the tree know that you don't know?"
over and over again, until you feel like a retard cuz you are totally not getting it.
I look at that tree today and I realize
"that is the stupidest teaching EVER! "
It makes absolutely NO sense.
And for all those years, I always wondered
"what does the tree know that I don't know."
Well, this Tree knows a helluva a lot more than that
self imposed genius in that French wanna-be-Chateau-styled-house.
Some days, I can hardly wait to see how this whole story pans out.
Other days, I could care less.
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California Dreamin'
- Posts: 338
- Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:15 pm
""""More than any monetary, relationship, loss in family, friends (or loss OF them in most cases), was the damage it has done to the entire belief system. That is, the ability to belief in anyone or anything from any religion, organization, group or even well meaning professionals offering help. """
This is the area where I suffer the most. I truly want to return to the spiritual space that I was in prior to joining RSE, when I was spiritually grounded and fulfilled, and I believed that RSE was just icing on my already fabulous spiritual cake.
Now, I have difficulty trusting my inner voice because it's clouded with doubt. I wonder if I'm actually hearing God communing with me. I get confused because I don't understand how God could have led me to RSE in the first place and allowed me to sacrifice so much precious time with my family, and allowed me to selfishly spend my family's money on a cult. I have feelings of unworthiness and guilt around this.
It's really eye-opening and humbling not to feel special anymore. For 20 years I really was delusionally content to believe I was one of the "chosen" ones, and that I was on an elite path. I found comfort in this belief, and my outlook was positive and my demeanor was empowered.
It's very confusing now that my original belief system has been overlaid with the school's dogma. Trying to sift out my original spirituality from the spins that repetitive brainwashing ingrained upon my common thoughts is a constant battle.
Anyone remember:
"I AM EVERYTHING A MASTER IS," "I AM FABULOUSLY WEALTHY," "I AM A HEALER OF ALL," "I AM MY BLUE BODY," "I AM 20 YEARS YOUNG," or "I AM MY GENIUS MIND."
This is the area where I suffer the most. I truly want to return to the spiritual space that I was in prior to joining RSE, when I was spiritually grounded and fulfilled, and I believed that RSE was just icing on my already fabulous spiritual cake.
Now, I have difficulty trusting my inner voice because it's clouded with doubt. I wonder if I'm actually hearing God communing with me. I get confused because I don't understand how God could have led me to RSE in the first place and allowed me to sacrifice so much precious time with my family, and allowed me to selfishly spend my family's money on a cult. I have feelings of unworthiness and guilt around this.
It's really eye-opening and humbling not to feel special anymore. For 20 years I really was delusionally content to believe I was one of the "chosen" ones, and that I was on an elite path. I found comfort in this belief, and my outlook was positive and my demeanor was empowered.
It's very confusing now that my original belief system has been overlaid with the school's dogma. Trying to sift out my original spirituality from the spins that repetitive brainwashing ingrained upon my common thoughts is a constant battle.
Anyone remember:
"I AM EVERYTHING A MASTER IS," "I AM FABULOUSLY WEALTHY," "I AM A HEALER OF ALL," "I AM MY BLUE BODY," "I AM 20 YEARS YOUNG," or "I AM MY GENIUS MIND."
totally, a constant battle.It's very confusing now that my original belief system has been overlaid with the school's dogma. Trying to sift out my original spirituality from the spins that repetitive brainwashing ingrained upon my common thoughts is a constant battle.
I, too, would like to get to the place I was in "positively thinking" , or spiritually speaking (not any really organized religion) before RSE.
and how does one make goals or positive affirmations when this list crap runs throughAnyone remember:
"I AM EVERYTHING A MASTER IS," "I AM FABULOUSLY WEALTHY," "I AM A HEALER OF ALL," "I AM MY BLUE BODY," "I AM 20 YEARS YOUNG," or "I AM MY GENIUS MIND."
one's brain? Arduous , at best.
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Wakeup-Call
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:20 am
- Location: Washington
Back to JTR's original question...
I think it's true about so many things in life (like a crappy boyfriend), especially with teens, that the more you try to get them away from something, the more you'll push them toward it.
Sounds like you struck the best balance you could with not trying to pull her away from the guy or the school all the time, or putting it down all the timie, but not encouraging it either.
I had a friend in my 20's who was devastatingly gorgeous. Her mom revealed one Thanksgiving the strategy she used over the years...when she hated a boyfriend she was all "oh, we don't see Tommy enough - bring him to dinner Friday...bring him out on the boat with us this weekend...your Dad has Red Sox tickets and wants to take Tommy" And when she liked a boyfriend she was all "eh, I guess he's ok...what's his major again? Oh, not a doctor? That's nice. Can you help me peel the potatoes please?" My friend was shocked but got a big laugh out of it as she mentally ran through her personal history. She admitted that her longest relationships were with the "good guys" who were getting the cold shoulder from her Mom.
I think it's true about so many things in life (like a crappy boyfriend), especially with teens, that the more you try to get them away from something, the more you'll push them toward it.
Sounds like you struck the best balance you could with not trying to pull her away from the guy or the school all the time, or putting it down all the timie, but not encouraging it either.
I had a friend in my 20's who was devastatingly gorgeous. Her mom revealed one Thanksgiving the strategy she used over the years...when she hated a boyfriend she was all "oh, we don't see Tommy enough - bring him to dinner Friday...bring him out on the boat with us this weekend...your Dad has Red Sox tickets and wants to take Tommy" And when she liked a boyfriend she was all "eh, I guess he's ok...what's his major again? Oh, not a doctor? That's nice. Can you help me peel the potatoes please?" My friend was shocked but got a big laugh out of it as she mentally ran through her personal history. She admitted that her longest relationships were with the "good guys" who were getting the cold shoulder from her Mom.