Newbee here, wondering how nuts is nuts. Just finished Layton book about Jonestown. Some behavior of the inner 1000 members of People's Temple gave me the willies because the nonsense-speak sounded familiar. I've heard similar mouthings from a family who have been Ramtha worshipers for over a decade.
I've never attended a session, only saw some laughable tapes many years ago. The individual in my acquaintance who became involved is very poorly educated and from an impoverished background. It was easy enough for me to dismiss it as an organization for life's vulnerables. Over the years since, however, a couple others became involved, including a youngster I care about very much.
I'd guess you regulars have short patience for an outsider, but I'd appreciate your thoughts if you can find the time to share. Does anyone who has been part of it think the inner core is capable of physical brutality or self immolation? Jones was sane enough to remain involved in local politics until the press began doing exposes about his organization. How would JZK react if seriously ridiculed by the press?
Would the innermost circle drink the cool-ade?
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Tyger
Re: Would the innermost circle drink the cool-ade?
ignatious wrote:Newbee here, wondering how nuts is nuts. Just finished Layton book about Jonestown. Some behavior of the inner 1000 members of People's Temple gave me the willies because the nonsense-speak sounded familiar. I've heard similar mouthings from a family who have been Ramtha worshipers for over a decade.
I've never attended a session, only saw some laughable tapes many years ago. The individual in my acquaintance who became involved is very poorly educated and from an impoverished background. It was easy enough for me to dismiss it as an organization for life's vulnerables. Over the years since, however, a couple others became involved, including a youngster I care about very much.
I'd guess you regulars have short patience for an outsider, but I'd appreciate your thoughts if you can find the time to share. Does anyone who has been part of it think the inner core is capable of physical brutality or self immolation? Jones was sane enough to remain involved in local politics until the press began doing exposes about his organization. How would JZK react if seriously ridiculed by the press?
I'll talk to you, ignatious;
Jones and Judy Hampton are two entirely different psychologies with entirely different motivations.
Both are fanatics. Both are insecure. Both are decent speakers. The similarities end there.
While Jones was a "true believer" who honestly bought into all the phlegm he spewed to his "audiences"....JZ is a simple money-hungry, power-mad [edit] who preys on the left-wing New Age kooks that the LSD-inspired college grads of the 1960's and 70's delivered unto our unsuspecting and naive society.
Another thing....while Jones didn't attract many, the one's he "caught" stuck around for the whole shebang. JZ has to plow through tens of thousands of "students" in order to get a few hundred to stick around through the years of her BS. Even dedicated New Age bimbo's like Linda Evans split the Funny Farm eventually. (The [edit] actually accused me once of "stalking" her granny rump, if you can believe that...)
So, no, I don't think the "inner circle" is capable of suicide if JZ got roasted in the media. She's been roasted before (20/20 a few years ago), and her response is to go underground ....like most con men and women.
Are they capable of violence and crimes against those they perceive as their antagonists? Most definitely, and I've personally witnessed a number of these assaults and retaliations. Hardcore Ramsters tend to think they are above the law (until the cops arrive that is...) and are mean as a blind rattlesnake to those they perceive as being "outside". That has been my experience. If it weren't for the diligent efforts of our local police here in Yelm, I have no doubt that Scamtha would have these zombies holding torch-lit marches down our streets, going house to house, trolling for "Ramtha-deniers".
I've seen them destroy vehicles with axes and crowbars, set places on fire (arson), break-and-enter homes on almost a routine basis, vandalize property by destroying it or with graffiti, shoplift from our local Safeway for food and booze, assault and battery over anything and everything, sabotage vehicles (and caused car accidents), drive drunk practically every night, beat their kids physically, cheat on their spouses regularly, etc., etc., etc.
Obviously there are a number of exceptions to this alarming behavior trend, and I know a few of them personally. They know who they are and no doubt exclude themselves from this list. HOWEVER, ......(ahem).....they ALSO KNOW plenty of Ramsters who have done EXACTLY what I just posted.
It is what it is.
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Lost in Space
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Aw, Tigger, you were doing splendidly until this part -
"Even dedicated New Age bimbo's like Linda Evans split the Funny Farm eventually. (The wrinkled old [edit] actually accused me once of "stalking" her granny rump, if you can believe that...)"
A "bimbo" is usually young, and brainless, and only attractive to equally brainless men who think from a region below the belt. I would say that, yes, Linda used be young, and beautiful, but she was not brainless - maybe to you, not having the right ideas means brainless though? And, now that she has aged, which by the way is not a crime, you think you can call her a [edit] - careful, I might think you fit the description of the "men" above.
Ignatious, I am an outsider too who, like you, is acquainted with one or two Ramsters. The ones I know would probably not drink the coolaid, and, as Tyger said, money is a large part of the raison d'etre of the school, and dead people just don't tend to help you get rich, and I think she is too busy to start channeling the financially intelligent dead among her students. Also, there are a lot of poor and miserable people, in Yelm, and around it, in RSE and out of it, wherever you go, who manage to hang in there, and don't commit suicide. I wonder, though, if the school may not at times exacerbate pre-existing conditions...I mean, if somebody I loved and respected, and believed was a God, who knew the riddles of the ages and so on, were to repeatedly tell me the world is going to hell in a handbasket, and the end is nigh, I might get so depressed, that I might actually stop believing in that person, or, contemplate suicide.
But it has been suggested, that many of the people at Jonestown who drank the poison, did not know it was poison, and some of them showed signs of having had it forcibly administered.
And, at least for financial reasons, if for no others (and I think she might actually have other reasons, and might actually believe in Ramtha herself) I don't think Judy will break out the coolaid.
"Even dedicated New Age bimbo's like Linda Evans split the Funny Farm eventually. (The wrinkled old [edit] actually accused me once of "stalking" her granny rump, if you can believe that...)"
A "bimbo" is usually young, and brainless, and only attractive to equally brainless men who think from a region below the belt. I would say that, yes, Linda used be young, and beautiful, but she was not brainless - maybe to you, not having the right ideas means brainless though? And, now that she has aged, which by the way is not a crime, you think you can call her a [edit] - careful, I might think you fit the description of the "men" above.
Ignatious, I am an outsider too who, like you, is acquainted with one or two Ramsters. The ones I know would probably not drink the coolaid, and, as Tyger said, money is a large part of the raison d'etre of the school, and dead people just don't tend to help you get rich, and I think she is too busy to start channeling the financially intelligent dead among her students. Also, there are a lot of poor and miserable people, in Yelm, and around it, in RSE and out of it, wherever you go, who manage to hang in there, and don't commit suicide. I wonder, though, if the school may not at times exacerbate pre-existing conditions...I mean, if somebody I loved and respected, and believed was a God, who knew the riddles of the ages and so on, were to repeatedly tell me the world is going to hell in a handbasket, and the end is nigh, I might get so depressed, that I might actually stop believing in that person, or, contemplate suicide.
But it has been suggested, that many of the people at Jonestown who drank the poison, did not know it was poison, and some of them showed signs of having had it forcibly administered.
And, at least for financial reasons, if for no others (and I think she might actually have other reasons, and might actually believe in Ramtha herself) I don't think Judy will break out the coolaid.
JZ is a simple money-hungry, power-mad [edit]
and might actually believe in Ramtha herself
Ha! Will the real JZ please stand up? I like your toxin best, Tyger, she doesn't sound nearly as scary as Lost's.
How important is the organization to Yelm's financial prosperity? Enough to buy silence and tolerance for behavior that otherwise mightn't pass the stink test ? Any guess what proportion of the Yelm population moved there to be near Ramtha? Do they stay on after the honeymoon is over? Are you kidding, Tyger about the marrauding?
According to the Layton book, Jones was more about money than I'd guessed before reading it. Amassed millions, stored in overseas bank accounts. The press exposure put him into bunker mode, which was when he took the group to Guyana. The members can largely be given a pass for what went on thereafter. He lied to them about what they'd find in the jungle. They expected the Promised Land and instead got back breaking labor, near starvation, sleep deprivation, beatings, etc. He had an estimated 20,000-30,000 followers stateside. The 1,000 who went to Guyana were the most devoted and he persuaded them they were specially chosen.
Is it a fair assumption that Ramtha followers who moved to Yelm to be near Ramtha qualify as the most devoted? Does she encourage all her followers to relocate there?
In addition to the lure of Eden, Jones persuaded his people they were in mortal danger, and only he could save them. Does Ramtha offer any sort of protection for when the world ends? No bunkers, are there, or caves in the mountains? My tongue is planted in cheek. I think.
Does Ramtha/JZ pit member against member? Select favorites and subtly encourage competition amongst them for her extra attention?
and might actually believe in Ramtha herself
Ha! Will the real JZ please stand up? I like your toxin best, Tyger, she doesn't sound nearly as scary as Lost's.
How important is the organization to Yelm's financial prosperity? Enough to buy silence and tolerance for behavior that otherwise mightn't pass the stink test ? Any guess what proportion of the Yelm population moved there to be near Ramtha? Do they stay on after the honeymoon is over? Are you kidding, Tyger about the marrauding?
According to the Layton book, Jones was more about money than I'd guessed before reading it. Amassed millions, stored in overseas bank accounts. The press exposure put him into bunker mode, which was when he took the group to Guyana. The members can largely be given a pass for what went on thereafter. He lied to them about what they'd find in the jungle. They expected the Promised Land and instead got back breaking labor, near starvation, sleep deprivation, beatings, etc. He had an estimated 20,000-30,000 followers stateside. The 1,000 who went to Guyana were the most devoted and he persuaded them they were specially chosen.
Is it a fair assumption that Ramtha followers who moved to Yelm to be near Ramtha qualify as the most devoted? Does she encourage all her followers to relocate there?
In addition to the lure of Eden, Jones persuaded his people they were in mortal danger, and only he could save them. Does Ramtha offer any sort of protection for when the world ends? No bunkers, are there, or caves in the mountains? My tongue is planted in cheek. I think.
Does Ramtha/JZ pit member against member? Select favorites and subtly encourage competition amongst them for her extra attention?
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David McCarthy
- Site Admin
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Who asked his members to consider him the incarnation of Christ and of God ?
He taught that he was the manifestation of the Christ Principle ?
He healed like Jesus did, and even claimed to have raised the dead...
He preached the importance of right human relations and radical egalitarianism.
He taught that all people had access to the Holy Spirit within themselves,
That his healing power demonstrated that he was a special manifestation of "Christ the Revolution.
He offered a place of refuge in his church for those suffering from social torment,
He believed in a utopian society consisting of racial integration and social equality.
He taught that a cataclysmic period of race war, genocide, and nuclear war was nearing.
He preached a "social gospel" of human freedom, equality and love,
Whatever he commanded his members did.
Who was this person?
Jim Jones..
Founder and charismatic leader of Peoples Temple. Jones Town.
********
After researching Jim Jones I was horrified to learn that there are indeed many similarities to JZ Knight...
Particularly if you view the "Ramtha" personality as another aspect of her disturbed psyche.
David.
*********
I have put on Christ, you see. I have followed after the example of Christ. When you see me.... it's no longer Jim Jones here. I'm crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ that lives here. Now Christ is in this body.... You will not get Christ's blessing in Jim Jones' blessing until you walk like Jim Jones, until you talk like Jim Jones, until you act like Jim Jones, until you look like Jim Jones. How long will I be with you until you understand that I am no longer a man, but a Principle. I am the Way, the Truth, and the Light. No one can come to the Father but through me.
Jim Jones.
http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestow ... jt1978.htm
Jonestown: The Life and Death of Peoples Temple
Google video link
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=0
He taught that he was the manifestation of the Christ Principle ?
He healed like Jesus did, and even claimed to have raised the dead...
He preached the importance of right human relations and radical egalitarianism.
He taught that all people had access to the Holy Spirit within themselves,
That his healing power demonstrated that he was a special manifestation of "Christ the Revolution.
He offered a place of refuge in his church for those suffering from social torment,
He believed in a utopian society consisting of racial integration and social equality.
He taught that a cataclysmic period of race war, genocide, and nuclear war was nearing.
He preached a "social gospel" of human freedom, equality and love,
Whatever he commanded his members did.
Who was this person?
Jim Jones..
Founder and charismatic leader of Peoples Temple. Jones Town.
********
After researching Jim Jones I was horrified to learn that there are indeed many similarities to JZ Knight...
Particularly if you view the "Ramtha" personality as another aspect of her disturbed psyche.
David.
*********
I have put on Christ, you see. I have followed after the example of Christ. When you see me.... it's no longer Jim Jones here. I'm crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ that lives here. Now Christ is in this body.... You will not get Christ's blessing in Jim Jones' blessing until you walk like Jim Jones, until you talk like Jim Jones, until you act like Jim Jones, until you look like Jim Jones. How long will I be with you until you understand that I am no longer a man, but a Principle. I am the Way, the Truth, and the Light. No one can come to the Father but through me.
Jim Jones.
http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestow ... jt1978.htm
Jonestown: The Life and Death of Peoples Temple
Google video link
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=0
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Whatchamacallit
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Ignatious wrote, "Is it a fair assumption that Ramtha followers who moved to Yelm to be near Ramtha qualify as the most devoted? Does she encourage all her followers to relocate there? "
Welcome, Ignatious.
I would say that your comment (questions) are right on. Not only have students been "encouraged" (if not shamed) to move to Yelm by "Ramtha", it is also a strong pressure from the current students, that a fellow student move into town. To be safe from the doom & gloom that is going to happen, is for the best and if your family holds you back, LEAVE THEM !
That's what students have been told for almost 30 years. I know. I heard it plenty of times.
Welcome, Ignatious.
I would say that your comment (questions) are right on. Not only have students been "encouraged" (if not shamed) to move to Yelm by "Ramtha", it is also a strong pressure from the current students, that a fellow student move into town. To be safe from the doom & gloom that is going to happen, is for the best and if your family holds you back, LEAVE THEM !
That's what students have been told for almost 30 years. I know. I heard it plenty of times.
IMO the students who move to Yelm are the most frightened and insecure. They move to Yelm because Ramtha promises that Mount Rainier won't erupt as long as he has anything to do with it. He also teaches that the geology of Yelm is special and it is built on top of a huge granite slab so their UG will be safe. 
When I look down the road at Yelm I see a place of chaos and turmoil. I won't live there and I am so glad. I refer you to the Days To Come thread.
When I look down the road at Yelm I see a place of chaos and turmoil. I won't live there and I am so glad. I refer you to the Days To Come thread.Keep the greater good at heart.
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Tyger
No ignatious;
I AM NOT kidding.
Few of these criminal acts that are perpetuated among Ramsters get reported to the police, since cops to a Ramster is like freedom of speech to Stalin. They are mutually exclusive.
On the other hand, EVERY malicious act the Ramsters commit on a regular, normal (you read: non-RSE) citizen IS reported to the police and acted upon, which is why so many of them have public nuisance type police records. Breathalyzer anyone???
To David McCarthy;
After reading your list of Jim Jones quotes.....I may stand corrected.
I AM NOT kidding.
Few of these criminal acts that are perpetuated among Ramsters get reported to the police, since cops to a Ramster is like freedom of speech to Stalin. They are mutually exclusive.
On the other hand, EVERY malicious act the Ramsters commit on a regular, normal (you read: non-RSE) citizen IS reported to the police and acted upon, which is why so many of them have public nuisance type police records. Breathalyzer anyone???
To David McCarthy;
After reading your list of Jim Jones quotes.....I may stand corrected.
Does anyone know how teachers in Yelm schools deal with Ramtha students? Is there any evidence of Yelm's teachers accommodating RSE teachings?
Do Ramtha students question or object when presented with information that is inconsistent with what they're hearing at home?
Do their parents teach them not to discuss Ramtha teachings outside the home?
Does Ramtha teach them to disregard what is taught in school?
Sorry to keep peppering you with questions. I've not previously thought this much about the prospective consequences of RSE on children.
Do Ramtha students question or object when presented with information that is inconsistent with what they're hearing at home?
Do their parents teach them not to discuss Ramtha teachings outside the home?
Does Ramtha teach them to disregard what is taught in school?
Sorry to keep peppering you with questions. I've not previously thought this much about the prospective consequences of RSE on children.
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David McCarthy
- Site Admin
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Tyger,
The parallels are chilling?
Jim Jones presented a well orchestrated benevolent face to the world?
the governmental powers and the Media set in place to protect the public...
left it far too late to intervene, turning a deaf ear to families that were pleading with the authorities
to help those trapped in Jonestown...
untill it was too late.
David.
The parallels are chilling?
Jim Jones presented a well orchestrated benevolent face to the world?
the governmental powers and the Media set in place to protect the public...
left it far too late to intervene, turning a deaf ear to families that were pleading with the authorities
to help those trapped in Jonestown...
untill it was too late.
David.
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Lost in Space
- Posts: 375
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:49 am
- Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Tyger
ignatious wrote:Does anyone know how teachers in Yelm schools deal with Ramtha students? Is there any evidence of Yelm's teachers accommodating RSE teachings?
Do Ramtha students question or object when presented with information that is inconsistent with what they're hearing at home?
Do their parents teach them not to discuss Ramtha teachings outside the home?
Does Ramtha teach them to disregard what is taught in school?
Sorry to keep peppering you with questions. I've not previously thought this much about the prospective consequences of RSE on children.
ignatious one;
Keep the questions coming.....I'll field them all if I can.
"Do Yelm school teachers deal with Ramtha teachings"......I don't know as my kids are all grown now and didn't attend any Yelm area public schools. I also don't know any Yelm school teachers personally, so I'd be unqualified to comment on this one.
"Do Ramtha students question or object when presented with information that is inconsistent....." This I can answer with authority. YES they do. Trying to talk to a Ramster about anything normal is like dropping LSD and trying to keep a straight face while watching Family Guy. Simply impossible. You mention the weather and you get a dissertation on "global warming created by humans hell-bent on killing Mommy Earth." You mention the stock market and you get "greymen....greymen....greymen..." You mention sports and they look at you like you're speaking Sanskrit. Ask them about the upcoming Presidential election and you get "Bush lied, kids died!!!" You mention the War On Terrorism and they start blathering on about "Vietnaaaaaaaam, dude.....Vietnaaaaam...". It's like trying to talk to Cheech and Chong about astrophysics.
I've seen dogs have more meaningful conversations with fire hydrants. Nuff said.
"Do their parents teach them to be silent about Ramtha?" Again, I can't speak with as much authority as I would prefer, since I only know one Ramster couple with a kid that I know well enough to render an opinion on. From what I've seen, they try to censor the kids in public....but censoring a four-year old is easier said than done. To illustrate, I'll quote verbatim a conversation I recently had with a 4-year-old Ramster.
Tyger; "You pee on my couch again and I'm going to make you sleep on the damn toilet....we clear?"
(apparently Scamtha can't master toilet training teaching well at all....the poor kid is still wearing Pampers....but hey, he can find a crayola card in a stockyard pen!!!)
Four-Year-Old-Ramster; "If you make me sleep on the toilet I'm going to give you a "Blue Body Mind Zap"" (I learned later that he meant to fry my brain...his daddy taught him how...
)I'm sure you get the picture....
"Does Ramtha teach them to disregard what is taught in school?" Well, duh!!! There is NOTHING that Scamtha DOESN'T "teach" that isn't 110% revisionism. In order to believe the Scamtha line of reasoning you have to:
1) Disregard the Ice Age, the Stone Age, and all the other ages. Archaeologists have it all wrong....and every other science as well....according to the Scamthy One.
2) Ignore all medical science and actually treat medicine as something to be avoided at all costs, especially when you need it to survive.
3) Ignore all of written history...including World War Two.
4) Learn to love guys like Stalin and Hitler and look for the bright side of 50 million murdered humans.
and 5) That certain human beings are not really humans at all. They are lizard people (Draconians)...and in disguise....just waiting for you to not abort that baby so they can pop it into their dino-jaws like an appetizer. It's why Republicans are against abortion, don't you know. They need more babies to eat.
Oh, and how could I forget....6) Eating Twinkies by the caseload will make you immortal.
And all for the bargain basement price of only $1500!!!!! Oh, what a bargain!!!
Stupidity For Sale!!!!
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Tyger
David;
After our conversation, I definitely stand corrected. This is getting scary. And you're right, denial is the cornerstone of the RSE teachings, and considering that.....anything is possible.
Lost In Space;
There are maybe 30-40 kids enrolled at "CSE" (Children's School of E-youfillintheblank). And from the one's that I know, they are too young to attend public school yet. Scamtha is getting into their brains in the formative years now.
However;
I know MANY of the "Ramster-kids" here personally that are the products of Ramtha parents and are now in their early twenties. Most are heavy drinkers and well on the way to established public nuisance police records. Few (if any) have gone on to college, and most are basically wandering their lives away....drifting from wine ceremony to wine ceremony (or parties, whatever you prefer), and all waiting for the "planetary vibrational frequency shift" that they all expect to happen in 2012....since all the other "prophecies" fell oh-so-flat....including that ridiculous Y2K BS. Also, not a single one of them that I know actually employs or practices the teachings....they just blabber on about them. They ALL can't wait for the "end of civilization", and most are armed with an array of firearms (surprisingly enough). Few hold good paying jobs, so they can't afford to go to the Funny Farm and stay current (about a $10,000 a year cost in tuition alone).
In short.....a bunch of professional losers if you ask me. I don't know of a single one that has done anything even remotely significant in their entire lives (so far...).
"By their deeds ye shall know them."
After our conversation, I definitely stand corrected. This is getting scary. And you're right, denial is the cornerstone of the RSE teachings, and considering that.....anything is possible.
Lost In Space;
There are maybe 30-40 kids enrolled at "CSE" (Children's School of E-youfillintheblank). And from the one's that I know, they are too young to attend public school yet. Scamtha is getting into their brains in the formative years now.
However;
I know MANY of the "Ramster-kids" here personally that are the products of Ramtha parents and are now in their early twenties. Most are heavy drinkers and well on the way to established public nuisance police records. Few (if any) have gone on to college, and most are basically wandering their lives away....drifting from wine ceremony to wine ceremony (or parties, whatever you prefer), and all waiting for the "planetary vibrational frequency shift" that they all expect to happen in 2012....since all the other "prophecies" fell oh-so-flat....including that ridiculous Y2K BS. Also, not a single one of them that I know actually employs or practices the teachings....they just blabber on about them. They ALL can't wait for the "end of civilization", and most are armed with an array of firearms (surprisingly enough). Few hold good paying jobs, so they can't afford to go to the Funny Farm and stay current (about a $10,000 a year cost in tuition alone).
In short.....a bunch of professional losers if you ask me. I don't know of a single one that has done anything even remotely significant in their entire lives (so far...).
"By their deeds ye shall know them."
It's like trying to talk to Cheech and Chong about astrophysics.
Havin a chuckle at your whole post, Tyg.
Years ago my job required me to interview a young teen who'd been adopted by an evangelical school-orphanage. Evangelical Girl had been rescued from a desperate inner city slum situation with an abusive and drug addicted mother. The girl had lived at the school for about a year and was fully indoctrinated in the faith. Easily understood under the circumstances.
The Ramtha family with which I have had some familiarity has had a small amount of adversity to fuel their RSE dependency, no more than most, much less than many. Nevertheless, the victim mindset mentioned in another thread in the forum, The School of Victimization, would seem to apply. They hotly assert they're masters of their own fate, but much of their passion seems fueled by anger at folks and situations who done 'em wrong.
Curiously, Evangelical Girl didn't seem to see herself as a victim, even though IMO she had plenty to be angry about. I talked to her about it a little, curious to know if the church had taught her forgiveness. Her answer was one of the few things she said that didn't come out of a prayer book. She smiled and said, "Waste of time." Fourteen year old kid with the wisdom of a 70 yr old.
Havin a chuckle at your whole post, Tyg.
Years ago my job required me to interview a young teen who'd been adopted by an evangelical school-orphanage. Evangelical Girl had been rescued from a desperate inner city slum situation with an abusive and drug addicted mother. The girl had lived at the school for about a year and was fully indoctrinated in the faith. Easily understood under the circumstances.
The Ramtha family with which I have had some familiarity has had a small amount of adversity to fuel their RSE dependency, no more than most, much less than many. Nevertheless, the victim mindset mentioned in another thread in the forum, The School of Victimization, would seem to apply. They hotly assert they're masters of their own fate, but much of their passion seems fueled by anger at folks and situations who done 'em wrong.
Curiously, Evangelical Girl didn't seem to see herself as a victim, even though IMO she had plenty to be angry about. I talked to her about it a little, curious to know if the church had taught her forgiveness. Her answer was one of the few things she said that didn't come out of a prayer book. She smiled and said, "Waste of time." Fourteen year old kid with the wisdom of a 70 yr old.