Please support the RSE whistleblowers and citizen journalism and voice your concerns here. Act collectively and hold JZ Knight and the Thurston County public officials accountable for fraud and human rights abuse at RSE. This is about accountability and pursuing justice.
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Unread post by voidgate » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:06 pm


Whatchamacallit wrote:

Jay is correct that the US courts cannot convict a cult leader of fraud no matter how bizarre the claims or beliefs unless there is sufficient, incontrovertible evidence that the leader is knowingly lying and intentionally using "undue influence" [a legal term] to manipulate others with beliefs they do not believe themselves or know to be false.

I consider it relatively easy to prove that Knight is a fraud. According to the reply received from the Attorney General?s department by myself Knight considers RSE is a religion.

Customers at RSE are not told it is a religion. Customers should be told before they enter the door that they are paying to attend a religion. There is nothing in the Conditions of Participation either that states people are attending a religion.

If anyone is deluded enough to think that it is something else is on offer then try testing that out in court. The bottom line is the law.

Knight can?t refute what she has stated is on offer because the reply from the AG is in the public archives.

Customers are deluded into thinking they are getting education in a scientific study that develops latent abilities in the brain so they will be able to execute miracles a described in religion and more and yet Knight disagrees with this. She states via her lawyer ? The teachings are not intended, and certainly not guaranteed to develop occult powers?

Customers are lied to in order to get them to attend

Knight has incriminated herself in the above statement. Customers are told they are doing disciplines in order to change their brain so they can accomplish miracles. No one would spend hours of hardship on the field, in the tank, doing C and E or putting up with the extreme discomfort at that place if they were not convinced they were doing it for great potential personal gain. Knight?s INTENT is plainly stated and documented.

Ramtha has been copyrighted. People can copyright an IDEA. Knight owns the idea of Ramtha and it has taken me a long time to see what was not obvious which is that she could win a court case on the basis that she does own the idea.

It follows then that when the idea abuses others in plain public view then Knight is the one legally accountable. To report abuses to the police there has to be credible evidence and witnesses. The problem at RSE is that most are mind controlled by the hierophant and consider this being the authority.

The hierophant does not act against injustice and as the hierophant is considered the teacher the paying public will not report crime to the police. If a few witnesses actually will support an abused person then the majority will not act because they have been taught the victim deserves it as they created it in the first place. Furthermore there is likely to be outrage by the masses that their sacred school may at risk and they would not be able to attend such a wonderful place in the future.

The Attorney General?s department is the USA legal avenue for the people that deals with consumer fraud. RSE is a wide scale international rip off. RSE markets to countries such as Australia that are generally non-religious. Religion does not invade our politics, currency or common conversation as it does in much of the US. Knight is marketing religion to non-religious countries without disclosing it to the customer. Evidence on their website makes it plain it is not a religion as it is stated as fact.

I did not know Knight considered it a religion until the end of 2006 when I received the AG response, nor that she would use it as a legal weapon against her customers. I was duped by the hierophant like everyone else.

Knight is presented as the main example of an adept student and yet recently she had to ask the children of CSE to heal her. After 30 years since the school?s inception she still can?t heal herself. RSE used to advertise that people could learn to heal themselves in 8 days and C and E has healed every known disease.

Family members of Knight?s customers get impacted in a variety of ways. Knight ruins their futures, the old and young alike. Many people?s years have been wasted as servants after Knight took most of what they owned.

The AG office is really the only legal avenue I am aware of to stop Knight. It is also the only legal avenue available for people who have been cleaned out of huge portions of money. The AG deals with multinational fraud. A lot of people have been defrauded a huge sum for very little result.



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Unread post by voidgate » Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:36 am

There is no satisfactory evidence that the purported healing of Knight had anything to do with whatever the children at CSE did. Double blind studies have not been done at RSE and there is almost no one that can accomplish and prove any consistent mastery at anything taught. If a mere few out of thousands of customers can consistently accomplish ONE thing it is an appalling track record for something called "education."

Some people say they have levitated and yet when they want to accomplish it again they think continued attendance (and pure slavery in between events paying for the next episode) will produce the result they want.

The poor results obtained could be equalled to a religious endeavour.

Ms. Knight accomplishes very little in public viewing.

A master as presented in the early years accomplishes all of those things easily like a trained musician where it becomes second nature.

Plain as day it is not happening at RSE.

There is enough evidence to put Knight in prison on the condition her people, past and present, stop being assimilated and not standing up for their rights.

The assimilation procedure ( conversion to Knight's school education in the absence of true enlightenment ) has tentacles far and wide and infest people's thinking long after they have left.

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:17 am

Hello Voidgate

For your information, I found the following that would be of interest to you:

http://www.ramtha.com/html/aboutus/faqs ... ligion.stm

Copied from the above RSE website:

?About Us

Is it a school or a religion?

According to JZ Knight, "The Ramtha School of Enlightenment, also known as the American Gnostic School, is considered by its students, who currently number at approximately 3,000, to have the most exciting, dynamic and relevant educational and spiritual curriculum in the world. Since its inception in 1988, the philosophical and theoretical teachings of Ramtha have created experiences that are fundamental in establishing the truth of the teachings for his students. This mystery school integrates contemporary knowledge with practical teachings, enabling students to gain wisdom.

"Ramtha's Gnostic School is not a school in the traditional sense of the word nor is it a church. It is not a religion because it is not based on authority or belief. It is, however, a unique academy whose broad curriculum is rooted in the experience of self. It offers its students knowledge that allows them to expand their truth and broaden the boundaries imposed on them by society and convention. The school format creates conditions in which the students learn to apply knowledge that improves their ability to trust their spiritual instincts.?

So JZ Knight and her lawyer manipulated the facts. That?s the basis of RSE ? lies?

Also this relevant court case:


Copied from above link:

Litigating against cults

In Molko v. Holy Spirit Assn.,[6] Greene represented two former members of the Unification Church, David Molko and Tracy Leal. Ruling on appeal, the California Supreme Court found that religious organizations may be sued for fraud if they use deception to recruit members - the members of the Unification Church who recruited Molko had lied when he asked if their community had a religious affiliation. The Supreme Court declined to review, and the case was settled.


About Ford Greene, copied from above link:

Ford Greene, Esq.

Ford Greene, Esq. is a practicing attorney in California, who has specialized in cult related litigation for more than twenty years. Greene is a graduate of the New College of California School of Law and is a member of the bar for the State of California.

Greene litigated and won the landmark appellate court decision, Molko v. Holy Spirit Association (1988) 46 Cal.3d 1092. In this decision the California Supreme Court held that the First Amendment does not bar civil causes of action for fraud, intentional infliction of emotional distress and restitution when a cult uses deception, which subsequently leads to an unsuspecting individual's exposure to thought reform techniques that cause suffering and damages.

Ford Greene?s website: http://www.fordgreene.com/

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litigation re cults

Unread post by joe sz » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:23 am

Ford Greene was successful with the Molko case but that case also was a setback for expert witnesses. The anit-anticult crowd gathered to counter Dr Margaret Singer's theory of brainwashing and "coercive persuasion" as unscientific and won. She was not allowed to testify and it compromised her legal cult work thereafter.
Testifying about brainwashing has been very limited since.

Also Greene's effectiveness against cults has waned and he went onto other things. What is interesting is that he infiltrated the Moonies in the mid-1970s to get his sister out. Even after all he has done to deprogram "130" moonies in 2 years and litigate against the group his sister is still a Moonie!
From 1976 to 1978, he deprogrammed about 130 [4] members of the Unification Church (or "Moonies"), including the Prince of Tahiti. He failed to deprogram his own sister, who is still in the organization.

The "deprogrammer" character in the film Ticket to Heaven was based on his work. [5]

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Unread post by voidgate » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:27 am

Thankyou Caterpillar and Joe for your information.

I really appreciate the comprehensive detail about the Arabian horse scam in another thread :

http://www.enlightenmefree.com/phpbb3/p ... night#6377

Knight has obviously scammed people from the beginning and only legal intervention will stop her and then she makes out as though paying the people the money back is some sort of magnanimous gesture.

There are huge numbers of people who have been robbed by Knight at RSE. Many live in the nearby neighbourhood. The only legal avenue for those people is the Attorney General's office as they could not afford a lawyer.

I have had a lot of experience with legal investigation in Australia. The AG office are investigators which is different to employing a lawyer. In this country a legal investigator is called the Ombudsman. The similarity is they investigate complaints. They do not act on behalf of a client. An attorney that acts on behalf of a client inclined to be deceitful uses every known strategy they can think of to protect their client. An investigator investigates facts and does not act on behalf of either side.

It is quite unsound to investigate a complaint when there is poor evidence there is a problem no matter how sound the argument may be. If numbers object with the same underlying principle then it would be reasonable to look into the matter.
If people do not get together and complain against Knight then the law is in Knight's hands.

My suggestion would be that people in the local community get together and lodge joint complaints. People that have been fleeced of a mere $2,000 could join in and lodge a simple complaint with the underlying basis that RSE misrepresents what they have on offer.

They really don't have too many other options. Once their money is gone and they have little income earning capacity they become servants in someone else's reality instead of having a happy life living their dreams.


Unread post by Nextstep » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:10 am

The A.G's office repeatedly told me that "they were not my attorneys....they worked for the state government....if I needed legal aid I need to find my own attorney". Under the WA State Constitution the A.G'.s office does indeed work on behalf of the residents of the state, not just its political leaders. Lawsuits and legal actions to force the state to do its constitutional duties have been launched and are ongoing but remain elusive.

Believers have mostly run out of money and assets. They do not have the minimum 5k or more to pay an attorney's retainer to initiate a criminal or civil investigation or suit. Believers are easily frightened by a sense that if any legal complaints are lodged that they may find themselves deported back to their homelands. Believers are concerned that information about their private and business lives and relationships may have been recorded or logged during events, retreats, and other places by staff and fellow believers. The last thing any believer wants to see is gossip leaked, true or false, about possible drug deals, skimming or stealing from the job or company, failure to pay taxes, assualts, arsons, neglect, sexual events, Identity theft, phoney i.d's, dui's, and so on.

The States of CA and NY have the strongest pro- citizen A.G's offices in the country, or the world for that matter. If any CA or NY citizen or believer has been affected by the local WA State concern then concider contacting them. Though, it may be too late as both states are suffering from budgetary woes and may see them cut and reduced in effectiveness for your needs.

Getting the WA State A.G's office to assist you may be like herding cats or pushing on a rope. Yet, when it affects the state such as loss of taxes or interference with its Agencies or personnel then they tend to act.


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Hello everyone

Unread post by Robair » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:54 am

Hello nextsept
Good post
You seam to know lot of what would happen to student that might be thinking of getting after JZ with the Law.
We sure would like to know more about what you know,.
Would you care to share some of your knowledge or experiences with us
I Value Things Not For What They Worth But For What They Represent

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Con Man

Unread post by voidgate » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:25 am

Sounds like a great Nextstep for the believers would be to get deported so at least they get an air ticket home rather than a coffin courtesy of Yelm community fund raising.

I was told all the AG offices work together so the Tacoma AG has access to all of the complaints. The complaint analysts are all volunteers. They get complaints before they are passed onto an attorney and the volunteers assess if it is worth giving it to an attorney for appraisal. Not an ideal system but the best on offer unless someone has a better idea.

From the comprehensive post by Caterpillar on the Arabian Horse scam it is evident that the occupant of Knight's vessel, called Ramtha has been a Con Man and trickster from the very beginning. It really does not matter what anyone believes Ramtha is. The observable facts are that Ramtha is the lure and magnetism to get the customer in the door.

Ramtha fills the wallet of Knight very well. He does not stand up for the rights of customers, nor justice. He does not give handouts to the poor and there are plenty of them. Knight holds the legal power over the school.

Ramtha's knowledge of the Arabian horse market was appalling. His ability as a prophet is an abomination. He could not accurately forecast the value of those Arabians. Very generously he offered free private consultations to those who had MONEY.

The same scenario repeats itself endlessly in an infinite variety or permutations and combinations. The occupant of Knight's vessel cannot be trusted. He is fleecing the public. Knight lies in plain view of everyone and obviously believes she will get away with it.

RSE would not exist without the belief that a master called Ramtha is the teacher. People would not come to listen to the mortal teachers at all without the belief that an ascended being is behind what they present. I have never met anyone who would come for anyone other than Ramtha.

The product of whatever Ramtha does is that Knight gets the money. He does not interfere in her legal affairs at all. She creates reality by using a surreptitious attorney like all other people in on the planet with vested interests. If she was a master herself she would use her mind to do it not an attorney.

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Unread post by voidgate » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:32 am

There is no evidence that the AG office will not work as no one has tried to lodge effectively worded complaints in numbers. Legal investigators are not New Age people. A reasonable approach without all the spiritual mumbo jumbo might have a far better affect. A joint approach might go a long way.

No investigator worth their salt would consider investigating something without sound evidence. When there are thousands of apparently happy customers and few objecting it does not provide sound evidence. The ombudsman in Australia investigates in a similar fashion in that they are not employed as your personal attorney. They investigate complaints from a legal standpoint and act on behalf of neither side.

To have an effective complaint their have to be clearly presented facts for the complaint to have a significant impact. There has to be clearly presented supporting evidence. It is very easy with RSE and its altered terminology to be unable to see clearly enough to present a complaint to a non involved legal person.

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