Evidence of Reincarnation Conference Marina Del Rey CA

For general chit chat on RSE related topics. You are walking through the woods and come upon a group socializing around the campfire. Pull over a log to sit on and join us. Introduce yourself here! Pages 1 & 2
mich444
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Evidence of Reincarnation Conference Marina Del Rey CA

Unread post by mich444 »

The Institute For The Integration Of Science, Intuition and Spirit Presents: OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE OF REINCARNATION AND PAST LIVES: Medical Doctors, Scientists, Case Studies and Psychics Gather to Research and Discuss Reincarnation at The IISIS Conference, October 3-5, 2008 in Los Angeles.

What: The Evidence For Reincarnation: A Catalyst of Transformation and a Peaceful Landscape for the Spiritual World Where: 2008 IISIS Conference - Marina del Rey Hotel 13534 Bali Way ? LA, CA 90292 - October 3-5, 2008 ? Los Angeles, CA $350 For the 2days - To Purchase Tickets go to www.iisis.net and click on registration or call the box office 1-800-367-5777

Why: The Scientific Evidence for re-incarnation is a two day conference about the scientific and evidential works of a group of respected medical physicians, Neurosurgeons and Doctors. We welcome you to this extraordinary, once in a lifetime event, in which you will experience detailed conversations on reincarnations of some of the most significant people in human history, such as Anne Frank, Michelangelo, Paul Gauguin, Hans Christian Anderson, Nostradamus and Laurel & Hardy.
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G2G
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Unread post by G2G »

I'd REALLY love to hear about Joan of Arc! So many claim to have "been" her, including jzk...
Oh, perhaps that was another timeline! :roll: :roll: :roll:

I do believe in reincarnation due to my interactions with people who as children remembered their past lives among other situations completely unrelated to RSE. The culture in which these children lived shunned these memories for it was considered a "bad omen."
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972
Marie
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Unread post by Marie »

and Laurel & Hardy.
Bwhahahahaha..... :lol:
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

I have more to say about this topic, but for now, I just want to share this:
http://www.reversespins.com/proofofreincarnation.html

Here's a video that some of you might find of interest. I'm not "promoting" it, just sharing it.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/442940/re ... roof_case/
joe sz
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Unread post by joe sz »

unique and impressive cases of possible reincarnation exist no doubt like this one that watcha offers:
http://www.reversespins.com/proofofreincarnation.html
My problem with all of these is how ill-defined reincarnation is. What is reincarnating? A person/soul? A memory of a person? Aspects of a human experience that some deity or demon wants us to relive? A subatomic fluke of nature? I can think of a list of possible "whats" that can equally explain the phenomenon. In other words, Joan of Arc subatomic brain particles could be dispersed among thousands of living folks--so what? I fail to see the value of the "memories."

The danger, if any, comes from those manipulative psychics who will claim to have some explanation and claim to help people with reincarnational memories or use trance to induce the memories.

This event in Oct in LA <www> to me is bogus all the way through. If anything it is an insult to people who may be the real deal. I am basing my opinion on who is featured.
Special Guests:

Kevin Ryerson, internationally renown trance channel
Featured on Oprah and Shirley MacLaine?s Out on a Limb,
Clair Francomano, MD, former Clinical Director of the
National Human Genome Research Institute who will address DNA and Reincarnation
Hans Christian King, named one of the 5 top psychics in the US
and indentified as the reincarnation of Nostradamus
and
Barbro Karlen, the reincarnation of Anne Frank

The "gauguin" poseur is a hoot! Horrible imitation.
"Peter Teekamp will be presented as the reincarnation of Paul Gauguin. Though Peter has developed a unique artistic style in contemporary times, he can effortlessly produce art work, as show below, in the style of Paul Gauguin. Peter?s art will be on display and available for sale. Commissions will also be accepted"
Lost in Space
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Unread post by Lost in Space »

I see no reason to discount the possibility of reincarnation, just as I attempt to keep an open mind about the tenets of other people's cherished beliefs or religions as a general rule - and, just because some possibly "alternative" or "out there" people are, as you point out Joe, cashing in, does not DISPROVE, to me at least, that it is possible for us to "come back" in some form. Reincarnation appears to be a shared belief of many people who hold with the existence of a soul or spirit body, and is a core belief of Hindus and Buddhists, for whose religions I have the utmost respect.
And, regardless of what I personally believe ( I am inclined to own that there is some evidence for reincarnation, and insufficient evidence against - who can say what happens after death FOR SURE? - it is one of the great mysteries of life.) that conference would at least provide some entertainment. Further, it is possible that someone would buy the 'repeat Gaugin'' artwork on it's own merits - it's a matter of taste, and isn't it nice that we have choices about what we buy?

Also, I have to point out that "Reincarnation Therapy" using past life regression is a tool used by several bona fide therapists, with, I might add, some success. I would rather undergo such therapy than take Prozac, for example. And it is unnecessary to PROVE the existence of the past lives for the therapy to have a healing effect on the regressed person. I can attend the following workshop, and let you know, lol.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/link.2.holmes/workshops.html
journeythroughramthaland
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I should have gone to work earlier this morning!!!LOL

Unread post by journeythroughramthaland »

Hi Lost I S,
"I see no reason to discount the possibility of reincarnation, just as I attempt to keep an open mind about the tenets of other people's cherished beliefs or religions as a general rule - and, just because some possibly "alternative" or "out there" people are, as you point out Joe, cashing in, does not DISPROVE, to me at least, that it is possible for us to "come back" in some form."

I am neither a believer nor complete disbelieve, but on the issue I would come down more on the disbelief side. I say this to first let you know up front and also let you know some of my reasons why. Sort of as Joe has mentioned, it (the belief when not completely accepted) raises a multitude of problems and questions I would rather not think about on a regular basis.

Should you accept the below as reasonably representative, it might help in following my reasoning.

The world's population is 6,525,170,264 (July 2006 est.) The birth rate is estimated at 20.05 births/1,000 population and the death rate at 8.67 deaths/1,000 population.

That gives us 358,192 births and 154,889 deaths as a daily average.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... index.html

That makes approximately 1.79 dead persons PER SECOND to put it into perspective., by the time I finish writing this I will let you know how many potential reincarnations have been added to that number.

966.6 (that included the search time) ((uh, oh, and a 666 LOL))

So as I write this I am thinking "gee added to the almost incalculable number of potentials that I might be a reincarnate of, close to 1000 have been added!"

How does one keep up? Who are all of these people? How do they decide into whom they reincarnate? If it is to teach unlearned lessons, I can vouch for the fact myself I still have many unlearned lessons that are common to most. so how do they decide who needs it the most? Are they discriminating? Are the bias? are they prejudice? Do I really want them to incarnate in me? do I have a say about it? If I don't, might I just as well say *&% it?
I could go on forever, but then I might begin to sound familiar to most on this board. Just thinking of the idea that one day JZ might reincarnate in someone else gives me the creeps. Another more interesting question to those who feel they "create their own reality" and also ascribe to reincarnation and they are reincarnated form of xyz entity does that entity do any of the creating? What if everyone of these entities decided to incarnate in one person!

In any case, Joe's question of what value it might be is an important one.

Several in the social and psychological community have expressed this theory much more clearly then I am about to, but here goes; There is an idea that we (humans) have developed our ability to disassociate as an evolutionary trait. Differing cultures lie on a continuum as to the amount these states are used or not and the value they put on them. Our western culture is one that sort of frowns upon "trancing out" so to speak. Western culture seems to use science as a more viable way of viewing things rather then ones trance states when it comes to understanding the universe around us.

If one looks at humans as having a capacity to disassociate, then in our western society, our capacity is not being used at a balance rate. Less rituals performed in our churches, which for most people has been the place to trust and use the dissociative capacity. Also this would include artistic endeavors, meditation, and other practices which engage ones processes to the exclusion of others. (sex,drugs& T.V. included)

If as some have theorized, that our culture is lacking in utilizing our dissociative capacities, then it might make sense that the rising number of dissociative disorders such as anorexia, bulimia, multiple personality disorder, obsessive compulsive disorders and other types of self-created (in this sense there is an aspect of "creating ones own reality" but pathologically)might be a partial consequence of this.


" Reincarnation appears to be a shared belief of many people who hold with the existence of a soul or spirit body, and is a core belief of Hindus and Buddhists, for whose religions I have the utmost respect.
And, regardless of what I personally believe ( I am inclined to own that there is some evidence for reincarnation, and insufficient evidence against - who can say what happens after death FOR SURE? - it is one of the great mysteries of life.) that conference would at least provide some entertainment."
Yes, Swami Beyondananda is a pretty funny guy!! However, notice the mix, is it a comedy show for entertainment, or a scientific presentation? WHat is being fed into ones perception prior to attending? The photos of the woman on the web site appearing to have similar features to who she is a reincarnation of goes a long way to "setting" ones perception toward belief.
"Further, it is
possible that someone would buy the 'repeat Gaugin'' artwork on it's own merits - it's a matter of taste, and isn't it nice that we have choices about what we buy? "
Not being able to draw more then a stick figure, I could hardly say i am capable of "taste" In my case preference would be a better word.

As an aside, I would like to throw this out to you Joe. I would like to hear from your perspective, being both an artist and cult researcher; In my experience in meeting various x and current members i have the distinct impression that those who had artistic interests prior to joining seem to fare better both inside and when they leave the group. I wonder if that might have something to do with that a significant portion of their dissociative capacity was not available to be monopolize by the group and rituals? Has there been any research with regard to cultic involvement specifically in that area?
"Also, I have to point out that "Reincarnation Therapy" using past life regression is a tool used by several bona fide therapists, with, I might add, some success. I would rather undergo such therapy than take Prozac, for example. And it is unnecessary to PROVE the existence of the past lives for the therapy to have a healing effect on the regressed person. I can attend the following workshop, and let you know, lol.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/link.2.holmes/workshops.html"
Lost, you know me, I had to give this guy a ring after going to his website, I may have woken him up. In any case, he said he should take it down from the site as he has not had any interest and not had any workshops for several years. I didn't want to straight out ask him what gave him the authority to give these workshops (he seemed like a nice enough gentleman) but I did ask if there were licensing requirements. He said Ontario did not require any. He said that the workshops were designed to release deep undiscovered emotional states.

Frankly, I would be seriously concerned with releasing some of my deep, undiscovered emotional states. What if they were murderous, etc.? If I were to consider it, I would certainly investigate thoroughly whose hands and environments I put myself into to do so.

That said, I do feel there is a place in therapy for bringing in differing types of ritualistic healing and trance-induction. However, for the everyday sort, not exhibiting any type of pathological behaviors it might be entertainment at best and dangerous at worst.

The anorexic is fixated with the idea that they are fat when in reality they are not. It has been suggested that they are using all their dissociative capacity in that regard and have built up that capacity through the endless futile battle against themselves to not be fat much in the same way one of us might build muscles.

If we go to a gym and exercise almost to the point of exhaustion, we cannot do it all over again right away, we have no capacity left to do so. Yet, if we give our muscles a rest and time to re-build after our previous session ones capacity increases.

Could it be that when in a group/religion/traumatic situation etc which occupy one's full dissociative capacity that upon leaving, the void one feels and has to deal with is partly the unused dissociative capacity while engaging their critical thinking abilities? I think that one of the reasons it is often mentioned to survivors of groups such as RSE to see movies, watch (mindless) tv, draw, paint play music etc upon their exiting process is not so much effective because one is doing what they had previously been unable to do in the group, but possibly because it eases ones sense of the unused dissociative capacity and in so doing eases ones sense of a void that might need to be filled again.

Anyway, to get back to the point I am trying to make, if the theories of evolutionary dissociative capacity development have some validity, then it would stand to reason that after leaving a group like RSE which engages in many rituals and teaches one to continue these rituals on their own, that when one leaves the rituals there is a void and a propensity might be to fill that void. One problem might be with filling that void too soon.

It may be that it is more healthy to first shrink ones capacity to disassociate so that there is not so much to fill. As this may be one of the reasons that quite often members of groups similar to RSE simply change channels or clothes so to speak.

What I am saying is that for persons exiting groups in which many of the demands were to maintain dissociative states, one might do well to resist the temptation/need/or possibly addiction to fill the void that is left and allow it time to shrink to its cultural norm.

PS 12,888 have died since I started writing this, more then twice the number have been born.
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner
Lost in Space
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Unread post by Lost in Space »

Dear Journey:

I quite see your point - for the ex-student, anything that smacks of dissasociation/spiritism or departs from rational, concrete thought and reasonable, fact based undertakings is perhaps dangerous - I was careless of that fact, I suppose, not being an ex-student. I am, instead, somebody who takes a keen interest in religious belief and practice, the world over, who studies all forms of religion, from the traditional to the bizzare. I am also a life skills coach, a field which touches on psychology and counselling, without actually being classifable as therapy - about making positive choices in your life, and conveying tools to enable better communication and problem solving skills, in a group context, for normal, functioning adults. Life skills groups are finite, and run their course after about sixteen weeks.

I guess what you are saying is that, on leaving RSE, many ex-students would not yet fit into the definition of normal, functioning adults. It is such an abrupt transition, and I suppose, a feeling of loss and a grieving and re-education process must take place.
However, the term "dissasociation" does not seem, to me, to directly relate to theories about reincarnation. You do not have to alter consciousness, or take leave of your senses, lol, in order to believe that you have lived before...and, the number of people extant now is outweighed by the number who, since the dawn of mankind, have previously been alive. The fact that some people do not reincarnate may be taken to mean (to a believer) that they have evolved sufficiently and learned enough that they go on to a higher plane or achieve union with the cosmic oneness of all things...I won't argue with you, though, I have long since given up any aims in the direction of getting agreement from others in spiritual matters.

And, I personally know of several licensed psychiatrists who use past life regression as part of their practices, so, the fact that that guy you spoke to was not one ( and, I am not crushed, because I don't have time to go to such a seminar, or much inclination) does not mean that it is not a recognized method of therapy.
journeythroughramthaland
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Unread post by journeythroughramthaland »

Lost,

Yes I agree with you that past life regression has been shown in some cases to be an effective form of therapy, especially where conventional therapies had failed. However, again, virtually all of these types of cases are of those with pathologies like I mentioned or phobias. Most of the therapists would admit that the therapy does not validate the info gained through the client, but that the important thing was that their symptoms were able to be eased or eliminated.

I am not saying that ex students should avoid any sort of dissociative behavior forever. Only that they would more then likely benefit to getting to some sort of baseline that might be considered a more "normal" dissociative capacity. I would also apply the same logic to those suffering from addiction, phobias, and those who have spent more then an average amount of time in trance or dissociative states.

Most past life regression therapy that I know of involves hypnosis or guided imagery when used in the therapeutic setting. Are you speaking of something else that you feel does not encourage or use consciousness altering techniques?
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner
Lost in Space
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Unread post by Lost in Space »

I think there are two separate topics here - past life regression as therapy, yes, does involve hypnosis, but that is not the same as dissasociation, which to me appears to mean an out of body experience - or entering an altered state of consciousness, whereas hypnosis in a therapeutic setting is delving into the inner core of one's being...I don't think we mean the same thing by dissasociation (which to me would tend to fracture the personality rather than heal it).

Belief in reincarnation may be a related topic, but it does not automatically jibe with hypnotherapy, or out of body experiences, or trances. It could be likened to belief in the soul, which does not necessarily contradict any tenets of ordinary science. Theories about what happens to us when we die vary from culture to culture or person to person, but I would not characterize those who believe in reincarnation as being any more likely to join RSE as those who do not, and I don't think that, on leaving RSE, you have to give up every single belief in an afterlife in order to transition to a more ordinary, mundane existence in the real world.

I think it is interesting that you suggest that artistic persons appear to have an easier time upon leaving RSE. Why do you suppose that is??
journeythroughramthaland
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clearer

Unread post by journeythroughramthaland »

Lost,
I think there are two separate topics here - past life regression as therapy, yes, does involve hypnosis, but that is not the same as disassociation, which to me appears to mean an out of body experience - or entering an altered state of consciousness, whereas hypnosis in a therapeutic setting is delving into the inner core of one's being...I don't think we mean the same thing by disassociation (which to me would tend to fracture the personality rather than heal it).
When I have been speaking of dissociation, I have been speaking of it as being both pathological and as occurs in everyday life; states of creativity (inspirational in particular),various sleep states, sensory deprivation states, states promoted through drug use,various types of meditation, daydreaming and other forms of relaxation states. pathological states would be fugue states, psychotic states especially hallucinatory in nature. I am not saying that hypnosis and disassociation are the same state only that disassociation occurs in a hypnotic state and appears to be a necessary ingredient.
Belief in reincarnation may be a related topic, but it does not automatically jibe with hypnotherapy, or out of body experiences, or trances. It could be likened to belief in the soul, which does not necessarily contradict any tenets of ordinary science. Theories about what happens to us when we die vary from culture to culture or person to person, but I would not characterize those who believe in reincarnation as being any more likely to join RSE as those who do not, and I don't think that, on leaving RSE, you have to give up every single belief in an afterlife in order to transition to a more ordinary, mundane existence in the real world.
I agree with you. I was not speaking of the belief in reincarnation as much as the acting out on the belief through getting in touch with ones inner incarnate for lack of a better term. I did not mention anything about those believing in reincarnation being more likely to join RSE or groups like them. Now that you mention it though I do not see that as an unreasonable statement. I could see where if one was predisposed to reincarnation where they might be more readily accepting of the concept of a "channeled" entity.

Also, one certainly does not have to give up belief in the afterlife as a precondition to a healthy recovery from groups such as RSE.

I think it is interesting that you suggest that artistic persons appear to have an easier time upon leaving RSE. Why do you suppose that is??
I was just throwing that out there to hear others comments; i.e. if they had artistic endeavors before joining, were they able to maintain or in fact enhance them while a member and did having that outlet help them in their recovery. If so, i was suggesting that perhaps it is a possibility that while in the group their normal dissociative capacity was not able to be fully occupied. Said in another way, if their dissociative gas tank was 20 gallons on going in, 25% already being used in their artistic endeavors the balance for the everyday purposes mentioned above, were they able for some reason to maintain the 25% while in and coming out of RSE and groups like it (which has been my impression for quite a few) and why might they think that is so, if indeed it is?

:?:
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner
journeythroughramthaland
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FYI

Unread post by journeythroughramthaland »

P.S.

One of the statistics revealed by the study done at RSE of JZ and a group of "advanced" students Greg Simmons included, was that on average they were 3 times higher on a dissociative states then the general public. If I remember correctly, JZ had the highest level. The people doing the study described it as "the ability to keep secrets from ones self". So if the average person has a 20 gallon tank, then through the various exercises and rituals in RSE it becomes a 60 gallon one, upon leaving one way that might help them recover and not have an "empty' feeling with regard to missing those states would be to find ways in which allow their gas tank to go back to its original size.
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner
tree
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Unread post by tree »


'journeythroughramthaland posted...
Could it be that when in a group/religion/traumatic situation etc which occupy one's full dissociative capacity that upon leaving, the void one feels and has to deal with is partly the unused dissociative capacity while engaging their critical thinking abilities? I think that one of the reasons it is often mentioned to survivors of groups such as RSE to see movies, watch (mindless) tv, draw, paint play music etc upon their exiting process is not so much effective because one is doing what they had previously been unable to do in the group, but possibly because it eases ones sense of the unused dissociative capacity and in so doing eases ones sense of a void that might need to be filled again.
It has been my experience that engaging in somewhat "mindless" or relaxing activites upon exiting a group (and not all are mindless, mind you)
it would be analagous to let's say having a very very stressful day at the office and this person just needs to unwind by just watching
anything on TV, or fishing, or whatever it is that relaxes that person until they can get back to the 'center' of who they are, and continue on
with normal life.

Now that I have typed that out, I will reflect on that very very stressful 20 years at the office.

Upon leaving the group, I found an utmost RELIEF in removing myself from the every increasing pressure to prepare for survival.
to can food, to work to buy food, to scrounge for anyone's free food, to build my UG, to be in an argument with someone as to if my
hatch to my secret escape door was submarine/water tight proof, etc etc
It was 20 years at a very stressful office.

So, I needed to unwind.
And in some unwinding, I had some realizations that had to be researched or authenticated or just plain vented about with a therapist.
"Is this real? Is this true?"

Unwind, and educate when one is ready.

If either of the two happen too fast, I think a mental breakdown would ensue (I know this for a fact. I personally know of 3 people
who this happened to).
tree
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Unread post by tree »

'journeythroughramthaland posted... One of the statistics revealed by the study done at RSE of JZ and a group of "advanced" students Greg Simmons included, was that on average they were 3 times higher on a dissociative states then the general public.
might I add, because the disciplines taught at RSE, bring this about.
While at RSE, as a student, you think this is a grand thing.

While out, one can see this is a pathological by-product.

One statistic being spun for several reasons.
Lost in Space
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Unread post by Lost in Space »

Journey and Tree:

Trying to understand - so, Ramtha is a "reincarnated" entity - but JZ's body is not Ramtha's, it's "borrowed" or shared - and that is not quite the same thing as a specific entity being born again in a new body all it's own. Similar to theories about "jump ins" - when the entity occupying a body gives up, or is too traumatized to continue, a disembodied entity, presumed to be benign, is said to "jump in" to the body and take it over - frankly that thought gives me the creeps. And it falls more into the category of channelling, than reincarnation, which represents a continuum for the same soul. I am way more comfortable with the idea of my soul cycling from one life to the next, than I am with the idea of my body playing host to other souls on a long term or permanent basis.

Journey, you define dissasociation as keeping secrets from yourself - trying to get your meaning. It does sound like a pathological condition that may be acquired through performing the disciplines and participating in the school - Self Hypnosis, if you will - where you re-write your personal history, and re-wire your personality/neuronet; essentially, turn yourself into someone or something else, divest yourself of all of your past emotional attachments and habits, and start a new life. And leaving the school must involve a colossal shift in states of consciousness and habits of being, particularly for those who, like you Tree, have invested years of time and effort into participating. And on top of that, leaving any long term job can precipitate a type of identity crisis, and anxiety about the future - What do I do now? - which I can certainly relate to, having left my job in April.

Also, thinking, when a life skills group draws to a close, there is actually a highly specific lesson on closure that customarily takes up the last session - taking formal leave of the group - and although some participants tend to stay in touch with each other, still it is generally acknowledged that people will feel a sense of loss. And that's only after 16 weeks...I can only begin to imagine what leaving RSE is like for people who have been in it for years...like leaving home for a young adult, but without the blessings and continued emotional support from parents and siblings.

I personal feel that such a dramatic life change/personal transformation is enough to give anyone a nervous breakdown, particularly if leaving involves negative relations with people you have been accustomed to associating with while in RSE. And Tree, I think you were wise to seek the support of a trained therapist or counsellor. And, you sound pretty okay, actually, all things considered.
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

Hi All,

Been reading through the posts ~ interesting thoughts. I?ll add a few more of my own to the mix =-)

~~ Personally, I don?t think it?s proof or not-proof, to equate the number of births to the number of deaths. I remember having the conversation about how many people can be in spirit vs. how many can be physical at the same time, plus looking at the past and potential future numbers as it might relate to reincarnation. It doesn?t have to be a 1:1 ratio. There is much we don?t know. It?s okay not knowing. Human nature wants to ?fill in the blanks?, though.

~~ Personally, I am quite wary of NEEDING to believe on either side of the fence. I?ve said this before and I?ll say it again. For some people, they might find comfort for themselves, to cite scientific studies as ?fact?, therefore giving themselves reason to believe they know all/most of The Answers. As we know, ?science? has been disproven, with regard to previously believed and widely accepted ?facts?. That?s not likely to change anytime soon, given the track record.

~~ Personally, I believe there is much to be learned from children. I have one story to share. One day years ago, when one of my sons was about 3-? years old, he walked into the bathroom where my hubby was sitting on the throne. Hubby had a belt buckle on, that was older and quite large?it was some metal design. I don?t recall what it was anymore, but it?s irrelevant. Our son stoically looked at hubby and said to him, very matter of factly, ?My dad had a buckle like that when I was little with you and we died in the car fire.?

Of course, hubby told me that story. For years (until around age 7), that same son would be very anxious in the car. He frequently would ask if, when we were going anywhere, we were going to be getting on the highway. When we said ?yes?, he would become very upset. There was NO obvious reason for this. He was raised just like the rest of the kids, who never had any such emotion/reaction. Neither hubby nor I ever talked about cars and fires, as it had nothing to do with anything for us.

Now, this next part will make some people just roll their eyes, but nevertheless, I?m going to share it, because I?m telling the truth as to what happened.

Several YEARS later, I was at a woman?s house having a ?. gasp ?. Psychic reading. This woman did not know me. I had not ever been to any psychic anywhere, discussing this incident with, or about our son. She could have prattled on and on about anything in the reading. I never brought my son up in any way. However, at one point, she asked me point blank, ?Do you have a young son who is very afraid of cars and fires ?? Of course I said yes. She simply said that he still carries the emotional memory of having died at a very young age in a car accident, on a highway, in a fire. AT THAT POINT, I told her (the story) that I wrote above. She said the belt buckle was just a memory trigger, because his father had one just like it.

Now, sure, she could have just said that and I can?t prove it?s true. I can?t prove ANY of it is true, or even related in any way to reincarnation. I also don?t have a NEED to believe, or uphold a belief system, as being ?right?, either. It just is what it is. Very curious, indeed.

One reason that I shared this story, is not to debate what psychopathology our son may have had (rolling eyes), because I don?t believe for a second that he had any. He has always been a very well balanced, psychologically healthy, brilliant, and very good boy. Now, he?s a very well balanced young adult, with no memory of that happening. He?s a brilliant college student, and is doing quite well. He also has no particular interest in reincarnation in any direction, pro or con.

However, there are books that are written, from anecdotal studies specifically derived from children around the world, who have had similar incidents. Many with far more detail and clarity than what our son had. The parallels would at least arouse curiosity, if not a desire to research deeper into the topic, one might think. I suspect that it?s too much of a loaded cannon, for certain factions to dare pursue it?a reflection on just how controlled/suppressed we all are at a societal level.

As for prematurely filling any voids that are experienced after leaving a place like RSE?I see it as a different issue other than dissociation. Or that the void-feeling itself, is related to the events/school. I?ve talked to a number of people who have left RSE and felt that void. It wasn?t the void of missing going to the events, the habit of going to the events, not seeing one?s ?friends? at events, hearing the big guy, etc. It was the PAIN of having to face having been misled by someone/the teacher, the person that you trusted and loved to be guiding your SPIRITUAL LIFE !!! What a betrayal. An intimate part of our lives, our spiritual lives, just meaninglessly USED by a con artist. OUCH. The void of the LOSS, the GRIEF. First the emotional loss leaves the void/pain, not unlike the death of a dearly loved one. Then, later, the anger that goes along with, ?The so-and-so scammed me out of how much money??

Looking at the subject of reincarnation doesn?t mean that someone is looking to fill a VOID in their life. Yes, perhaps for some, it is that.

As I?ve said before, whether Ramtha is, or ever was, is irrelevant to the fact that I made my own choice to GO to RSE and to get the hell OUT of RSE. I did choose to go, and JZ Knight chose to lie to people. But, I?m not a liar, she is. I am living MY life, despite her. To ME, that?s the key?irregardless of whether of not certain ?mysteries? are knowable at any point in time, we are first and foremost responsible to live our lives now, not get too caught up in the Unknown of the Mysteries. If/when they are no longer to remain mysteries, then it will be so.

If reincarnation is, or isn?t real, is irrelevant to the fact that right NOW, I am living this life and that?s where my attention is. Happily being human, and endeavoring to do a decent job at it, and take the high road (live a moral life). HOWEVER, I also would like to know the truth. Not the ?truth? of RSE, or the Muslims, or the Pagans, or the Catholics, or the Jews, who all believe They Are Right, but THE TRUTH. If it were somehow proven beyond any doubt, that reincarnation isn?t real, or it is real, I would like to know. IF reincarnation is real, THEN it is the time to ask, ?Why do we reincarnate and how can we use that fact to improve ourselves in this lifetime?? Personally, I would not use the argument that because we don?t see any purpose to it, that we then ought not to even Go There and look at the issue and pursue the research into whether or not it?s a genuine occurrence.

My opinion, intended to share in the conversation, and not for purposes of debate. I don?t need/want to be ?agreed with?, or ?disagreed with?, in any way of wanting/looking for validation. My view on reincarnation is the same now, as it was when I was 16 years old and discussing it in high school social groups, among other world religion topics. I don?t have the answers. The topic has not been proven, nor disproven, unless one chooses to accept the dogma espoused by certain religious doctrines; though doing so does not equate proof for or against reincarnation. Even then, among the theologians, there is not agreement.
Whatchamacallit
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No accountability

Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

LIS said, "when a life skills group draws to a close, there is actually a highly specific lesson on closure that customarily takes up the last session - taking formal leave of the group...."

When one takes a college course, there is a syllabus, a beginning and an end to the course, whereby the instructor is responsible for having delivered the educational material outlined in the syllabus. RSE started that way because it was openly touted as a SEVEN YEAR SCHOOL. The syllabus was learning blue body healing, remote viewing, telepathy, becoming God-in-flesh (christ consciousness), etc. The teacher FAILED TO DELIVER the material as CLAIMED. That's fraud.

RSE has been, since the passing of that 7 year time frame, whereby students were blamed as being too flawed to "get it", an open-ended "school". Further, it's an open ended school with no accountability to an accrediting board of any type, nor the WA State Department of Higher Education.

It's a huge scam, that repeats the same core teachings in new fluffies, over and over - without results. Any "good" thing that occurs in a students life is credited to the teachings. The fact is that those good things could have happened withOUT the teachings, perhaps even better. Those who KNOW there is life AFTER RSE, know this is true. Those that believe they need Ramtha to give their power away (they can't/don't make a move without the teachings and/or JZR approving it) to (their hierophant), don't believe it because they haven't experienced it. They fear life without Ramtha.

As has been posted on here many times, Caveat Emptor; buyer beware.

Life Skills Coaching enacts a level of responsibility that RSE SHOULD, but doesn't. Why bother when you can still continue to spiritually and financially rape the public and at least in part, get away with it ?
tree
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Unread post by tree »

Whatcha said:
Or that the void-feeling itself, is related to the events/school. I?ve talked to a number of people who have left RSE and felt that void. It wasn?t the void of missing going to the events, the habit of going to the events, not seeing one?s ?friends? at events, hearing the big guy, etc. It was the PAIN of having to face having been misled by someone/the teacher, the person that you trusted and loved to be guiding your SPIRITUAL LIFE !!! What a betrayal.
this has not been my experience. But I can understand those that this might be theirs.

Maybe it is different for those who commuted to RSE vs living in the surrounding area.
I did not think that many "commuters" really took to heart building UG's to the extent they do here in Yelm.
Yes, storing food was a good idea, but I do think when "one gets closer to the hub of the wheel, it is hotter " (a quote by JZR).
The wheel of fanatacism is what I might call it.
And if you are/were a commuter, the pressure to be near "the safest place on earth" must have been enormous, not to mention the guilt
of leaving family behind (Marie comes to mind).

For those who chose to move to Yelm, continually (as can be witnessed now by the madness of storing food, going to Costco, feverishly building UG's) having the pressure on of "Yelm is the safest place, store food, Ed Wiltsie approved my place, did he approve yours?" is a constant 24/7 mantra, much like a mother who is on call with her children 24/7. It's not until the child flies the coop that one realizes how much energy is used is being momma 24/7.

When one leaves RSE, after having lived in Yelm for many many years, the relief and realization of not having to 1) perfrom to be god
incarnate every single waking minute of every single day and 2) procurring all things essential for living after Armegeddon is an
unfathomable relief.
tree
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Unread post by tree »

Lost in Space:
And, you sound pretty okay, actually, all things considered.
I am now, thanks to alot of education and a few supportive people.
I would not wish my past year and 2 months on my worst enemy(if I had one).
I think most would crack or kill themselves, in all honesty.And a few have.

I feel very fortunate.
mich444
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Unread post by mich444 »

Thank you lost in Space. you sound truly enlightened, grounded, fair and open minded. There is much more to the Gauguin case than some artwork done merely as one more facet of evidence in that particular case.

There were numerous other factors, parallels, connecting the two artists, beliefs, prior talent comparisons in old drawings done by Teekamp before ever seeing the Gauguin versions done late in Gauguin's life, as well as the hidden faces and theme found by Teekamp, as well as a co-author found by Teekamp that just coincidentally again, looks like and has matching biography traits as that of Gauguin's former wife, up to and including the Gauguin charcoal drawing found by Teekamp in 2003 with a strong case being made for its authenticity as an original drawing in the style of Gauguin, depicting one of Gauguin's greatest masterpieces, that, when Teekamp and his coauthor researched the possibility that the drawing he had found was the original by Gauguin himself, they discovered that the experts believe that drawing did indeed exist, but was assumed to be lost....the fact that a dedicated artist can 'imitate' the art of another is not really the most impressive aspect of this case, it was simply one more band of parallels and synchronicities to validate the case. There are several things happening simultaneously that tend to confuse people.

1. the drawings done early by Teekamp that capture Gauguin's artistic style at a much younger age, Teekamp having never seen these images until 2003 when his coauthor bought the one book in which the rare drawings were published.

2. The faces Teekamp found in Gauguin's artwork that remained relatively unnoticed for more than a century (documented now with dozens of examples and quotes by Gauguin himself)

3. The fact that Teekamp hid faces in his own artwork years before making this discovery (documented in paintings from 1969 to current)

4. The charcoal drawing found by Teekamp in 2003 (documented thru court cases about the existence of this drawing prior to Teekamp's discovery of it, since many would otherwise assume Teekamp himself created this drawing but there is abundant evidence to show that would not be possible, as well as physical evidence as to the age of the drawing)

5. Only after understanding that evidence did Teekamp even agree to 'try his hand at painting like Paul" knowing people would have this confusion, and also knowing forensics would bear out the truth, plus why would anyone insist on a microscope if they were trying to fool or fraud anyone? Frauds don't work in broad daylight and they don't work to shine a spotlight on their case and invite scrutiny.
The only reason Teekamp agreed to do this is because the truth is bigger, and more beautiful than any one person, artist, or author.
The truth is about each of us and our true and divine nature and our connection to eachother. And this is why Teekamp and Moshay share with the open-minded at the expense of being misunderstood and misjudged by the skeptics.
tree
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Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 12:31 am

Unread post by tree »

this is because the truth is bigger, and more beautiful than any one person, artist, or author.
or bigger than one religious faction (or school that tauts being god- realized).

very informative post.
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