finaly

There are those who don't believe this study was a credible work. What do you think? Why?
ex
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finaly

Unread post by ex » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:29 pm

Jul 13, 2011
Eighteen Month Research Project on JZ & Ramtha Released
In 1996 and 1997, a team of 18 researchers studied JZ, Ramtha and the School students. Eight standardized physiological, psychological and behavioral tests were administered repeatedly on JZ and six long-time students. The scientific conference, entitled In Search of Self: The Role of Consciousness in the Construction of Reality held in Yelm, Washington, examined the results of the research. “[JZ Knight] is not a fraud,” said team leader Dr. Stanley Krippner, psychologist and leading parapsychology researcher in the USA. Following the conference, Dr. Stanley Krippner and Dr. Ian Wickramasekera published a paper in 1998 entitled The Ramtha Phenomenon: Psychological, Phenomenological, and Geomagnetic Data in the Journal of the American Society for Psychical Research, volume 92. However, they did not include the physiological data.

A new paper is now available online: Sympathetic Reactivity During Meditation by Joan H. Hageman, Ph.D., Stanley Krippner, Ph.D., Ian Wickramasekera II, Psy.D. in Subtle Energies & Energy Medicine. Volume 19. Number 2.

Read more from JZ Knight’s website.


http://www.rambenelux.com/downloads/art ... -sympa.pdf



haven't read into it. but i guess students will also not and just parrot the conclusens jz gives from stage.

ex
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Re: finaly

Unread post by ex » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:37 pm

for sure i didn't find the 'scientific' conclusion rse states: ramtha is the real thing.

Ockham
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Re: finaly

Unread post by Ockham » Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:32 am

I read the paper. It is a reasonable peer reviewed paper, and there is nothing structurally wrong that I see in the authors’ analysis of their admittedly small dataset.

The thesis of the paper appears to be that the breathing technique taught by RSE may have application as an alternative tool to Buddhist style meditation in subjects where the latter has not developed the desired result. The paper supports the thesis through analysis using what one presumes peers have found to be acceptable measures. Finally, the authors offer the conclusion that they believe their research analysis supports the thesis.

The paper does not appear to attempt to offer any compelling evidence of whether or not the, “Ramtha,” character is real, as that is not a question within the purview of the paper. A student of RSE might infer that, “Ramtha,” is real because the RSE brand of breathing exercise, C+E, is allegedly uniquely taught by, “Ramtha.” If C+E is valid, then must, “Ramtha,” also be valid? No, this is not a valid logical construction. Also note that trance inducing breathing techniques are common in many cultures, in all populated continents. Rhythmic breathing is well known by the participants and is not mystical or Gnostic in nature. The authors could have reviewed rhythmictrance breathing in any number of settings, but chose RSE because of is convenience and already existing dataset.

The authors themselves offer a healthy dose of skepticism. Quoting:
Future research is needed with larger samples utilizing longer test sessions to explore whether sympathetic reactivity prompted by accelerated breathing may exceed the generally accepted optimal levels over time. Other measures (e.g., cortisol, pre-frontal EEG, physical fitness) may help identify markers of meditative mind-body incongruence.

Finally, comparisons of breathing techniques, with meditation or not, may clarify the roles played by personality traits and expectancy outcomes, either implicit or explicit, that are involved in the foundational belief system of the meditative practices. It is our hope that this article will encourage more studies in this relatively neglected line of research.

Not withstanding, some researchers might prefer a different protocol used in the present study (e.g., longer than 3-minute testing session for each condition; functional magnetic resonance; repeated measures across multiple sessions; larger sample). Although the testing protocol used certainly precludes any major generalizability, the documentation of sympathetic reactivity within an active meditation style provided fertile ground for the discussion of our research question and the comparison from a broader perspective of an example of sympathetic reactivity within active meditation techniques.
It is interesting that RSE would start pressing this as a defining paper of prominent research in July 2011, given that paper was apparently published in ISSSEEM Journal about two years prior. I wonder why the sudden interest in this paper?

ex
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Re: finaly

Unread post by ex » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:30 am

the part of jz tested during channeling is not there. we discussed 'dissociation' and if its a good thing here already. as we know from resent dieings. there is no correlation between health and meditation. which is one of the sientific findings of this test. they also point out that theire findings are limited.[ no control group, no long term testing]. this study basically states: nothing new, nothing extraordinary. the " ramtha is sientificly tested" is a very vague construction from jz. at least its true. so were is the part jz got tested as ramtha? did they test how good he meditates?

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ponysong
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Re: finaly

Unread post by ponysong » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:57 pm

I think it's just been posted recently because that's the Italian website and they are slightly behind the times...

FYI, my internet security software blocked the site for "suspicious activity". Probably there is some kind of malware. Ramtha is watching you, Italy!

Personally, I'd be interested to see the actual data from JZ's channeling sessions. Even more interesting if there was control or comparison data from a group of trained actors repeatedly entering "character". That would be my null hypothesis in designing an experiment to test JZ while channeling Ramtha (i.e. I would expect her physiological responses to resemble those of a dedicated actor entering the mental state required to repeatedly portray the same character). Some actors who have each portrayed the same character for years on stage would be good choices, if you could get any such respectable individuals to participate in such a study.

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David McCarthy
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Re: this is the way of a clever fraudster!

Unread post by David McCarthy » Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:33 pm

Thanks for posting this thread ex and your posts...everyone.

I’ve made these point before….
Carroll Cobbs a long time student of RSE who "setup" the test for JZ Knight would say we were all 'bamboozled!
He also told me the 'scientific' study was refused peer review as was deemed not scientificly based!
all those wires connected to 'Ramtha' detected tiny magnetic fluctuations that a small fridge magnet in the pocket would send the meter sky high.
THINK ABOUT IT….. :idea:
All JZ Knight had to do to prove she was “not faking it” then why not simply have 'Ramtha’ appear before the study group? say a few "Lemurian' words...decyfer the neanderthal language.... :roll:
Nah..far easier to orchestrate a select study group... prime them up with booze, dining and stroking.. then pay off all the players handsomely..
Then.. manipulate and publish the findings to suit her own agenda and BS.
It’s interesting that all the RSE supporters that cite the so called “Ramtha scientific study” to me, haven’t bothered to read it.
The whole thing is a JZK Inc manipulated PR advertising sham.... but a clever one at that.

How do you know when JZK/R is lying?
When her lips move… :-?

David
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

ex
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Re: finaly

Unread post by ex » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:13 am

the whole paper isen't about if ramtha is there or not. its about meditation. it's not even clear said if the subjects did cne or twilight for 3 minutes. all arguments concluded from rse are wild interpretations. basicly hersay. nothing is writen down that the sientist measured something unexplainable or extraordinary like its put out from rse.

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G2G
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Re: finaly

Unread post by G2G » Thu May 31, 2012 5:28 am

:shock: That's the paper? :shock:
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Robair
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Re: finaly

Unread post by Robair » Thu May 31, 2012 1:45 pm

Hello Everyone

RSE has updated their Web site, here is what they are saying about the Famous test

This is Lying at its best
Have fun

Robair

Look at The teacher, Who is Ramtha scroll down to : Is there Proof of Ramtha Existence


http://ramtha.com/content/faq.aspx
I Value Things Not For What They Worth But For What They Represent

ex
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Re: finaly

Unread post by ex » Thu May 31, 2012 4:34 pm

i like the signpost: answers left [against the clock wrong] questions are the right way.
they changed the outcomes: dissociation is now hypnotic ability?
all the people with their dr degrees say so so it must be true.
[hope i don't have to point out that this is sarcasm]
i wonder if you can get the dvd without jumping through hoops.

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