Steve Klein?s Yelm blog, and integrity

What experiences led to your opinion that RSE is, or isn't, a cult ? Address issues; no flaming tolerated.
journeythroughramthaland
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Steve Klein?s Yelm blog, and integrity

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The full subject did not fit on the line:

Steve Klein?s Yelm blog, integrity, and how studying in Ramtha's School of Enlightenment brings diminished results.

This was edited by JTR on May 5th, 2008

This was re-edited by JTR May 22nd, 2008

Steve Klein eventually posted my comments on his blog {http://yelm.com/} I have attached the additional comments below for those interested in following the conversation.






I forget who said it but it goes something like this;

"There is no reason to lie, because a selective telling of the truth is far more effective"

That is what the RSE training and teaching appears to do well at.



I have had a couple of experiences that have shown me not only the lack of integrity of both Steve Klein and Greg Simmons but also the way in which the follow the leader mentality is displayed in their actions.

It was mentioned at the previous LARSE meeting Greg?s sales pitch at the introductory events, his claims to have scientific and medically documented evidence for healings, his public pronouncements to share that information and his inability (because it just was not so) to follow through on statements that described his future behavior.

Much like the big dude, he made statements which were found later to not only be untrue, but that were known to him to be untrue when they were spoken.

I have had several similar experiences with Steve Klein who along with being a former also ran Yelm mayoral candidate is Kleiner's Corner and Yelm community blog founder, and Manager for Event Services, JZK, Inc. These experiences have shown me, while attempting to engage in a serious manner both he and Greg have several things in common besides being spokespersons for Ramtha?s School of Enlightenment. The one that will be addressed here is the lack of integrity and ethics.

I will simply post a portion from his Yelm blog here along with comments and then I have included the comments he would not post. Those comments will be highlighted. An astute reader will notice the portion of my comments he had left out along with the comments he has totally omitted in disregard of his own policies.

The Yelm blog makes the appearance of being a community based and accepted one, as you will see, it really seems to be more of a soap box for Klein to further JZ? and the schools agenda. His Kleiner?s corner site should be enough to do that; the Yelm blog is disingenuous at best.

I do not want this to become a place to denigrate Klein or Simmons personally, so please refrain from personal attacks. Comments regarding this type of behavior and how it is accepted, imbibed, and nurtured (or not) in RSE are welcome.



0ct 31st yelm blog


Steve Klein addresses current issues impacting Yelm and vicinity and provides a meeting place for anyone with an interest in this area to provide their ideas and opinions
October 31, 2007
WHO IS JEFF ADAMS?



(photo)




Senior Minister Jeff Adams, College St. Christian Church
Photo from Lacey's College St. Christian Church website

A letter I wrote to the Nisqually Valley News (NVN) was published last week explaining who frequent NVN letter writer Jeff Adams is, questioning his motives and asking why we have not heard about this man in the newspaper.
NVN publisher/editor Graves replied,
"Jeff Adams has always been forthright with the Nisqually Valley News about his profession as a pastor and intent to someday expand his congregation to Yelm."

A Yelm Community Blog reader wrote to me about Mr. Graves reply saying,
"How are the READERS supposed to know who he [Jeff Adams] is if neither he, nor the paper, say so. I guess they're supposed to 'know.'"

Good point.
After all, the NVN won an investigative journalism award for a story published in 2005 due to Jeff Adams supplying the NVN with information for reporters to pursue. Mr. Adams was mentioned in the story, yet his profession and intent were mysteriously missing. Previously, the NVN published over a half dozen letters to the editor by Adams where he interjected himself into a Yelm political campaign with venom about someone he knew nothing about nor has ever met. My, oh my, is this how Christian values are being practiced by this man?

Never once has the NVN mentioned Mr. Adams title or position in the newspaper. Mr. Graves got a promotion to publisher and committed in his February 5, 2007 editorial saying "we won't gloss over the truth to protect sources, nor will we twist it to suit our whim or agenda." This may be his stand, yet we must rely on other newspapers and journals outside of Yelm to give us the bigger picture, in particular when important information is missing in our local paper. Searching the NVN archives for their coverage of Jeff Adams' identity resulted in none being found. And, now we have Mr. Adams letter published 2 weeks ago stating he is "an ever-increasing-personality in Yelm," again without identification from the NVN. And, Mr. Adams was a public speaker at a Yelm meeting last weekend. HMMM!

You can read the letter published in the NVN
I wrote about the Minister Jeff Adams of College Street Christian Church in Lacey.

The NVN never identifies Jeff Adams in their front section stories or letters, however you will find his name and position buried in the Living Section at the bottom of their October 19 Worship Guide:
"Limited space is available for Bible Studies in Yelm, the second and fourth Thursdays of the month at 7 p.m., led by Pastor Jeff Adams. Call 360-491-7372 if interested or go to www.cschristian.org ."

If this man is "an ever-increasing-personality in Yelm," shouldn't area citizens know all about him?

Joseph Pulitzer, the editor and publisher in whose name the most prized honor in journalism is awarded, stated in May, 1904, "Our republic and its press will rise and fall together. An able, disinterested, public-spirited press, with trained intelligence to know the right and courage to do it, can preserve that public virtue without which popular government is a sham and a mockery. A cynical, mercenary, demagogic press will produce in time a people as base as itself."

This writer says the time has come for our local journalists to be more vigilant and steadfast in keeping the public interests in mind.

By Steve on October 31, 2007 6:34 AM | Permalink | Comments (6) | TrackBacks (0)

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6 Comments
Bettye Johnson said:
Thank you Steve for your insight re Jeff Adams. Being a retired minister, I find it difficult to reconcile his letters to the editor in the NVN and what his website professes to be about. From my perspective, if one is a true Christian, then one follows and teaches the teachings of Jesus. The Sermon on the Mount should be the foundation for every Christian to live by. When a minister or a spokesperson for a ministry begins to take 'potshots' at others who are not in alignment with their views, I sense fear as their basis. I also recall about a year ago when there was the sale of the property near 93rd St - and I think it is now Tahoma - that in its master plan was to build an all-Christian community and perhaps Adams is part of that. Sounds to me like discrimination. Again, thank you for your input.
Bettye Johnson

October 31, 2007 10:39 AM
christine hartman said:
Brilliantly writtten Steve!!
I agree 100%

October 31, 2007 8:19 PM
Robert Menna said:

Hi Steve,

You did state at the beginning of your web site that this site was for "...anyone ..to provide.. their ...opinions"

I guess using the word provide gives you some weasle space.

In any case, in the event that the NVN chooses not to publish my reply to your letter. At least I have found a place to reply directly.
Please find it below:

Editor,

I am writing in response to a letter I happened across in the October 26th, 2007 edition authored by a Mr. Steve Klein of Yelm.

First allow me to point out in the interest of disclosure that I reside in Los Angeles and happened to be in town as a speaker and participant for the LARSE meeting featured on your front page of the same issue. I found it a bit incredulous for Mr. Klein to be asking the paper to ?investigate? Mr. Jeff Adams for being an ?ever increasing personality in Yelm.?

As I understand it, Mr. Klein recently ran to be elected to the position of Mayor of Yelm and was resoundingly defeated. If one of his duties would have been to ?investigate" persons for their ?ever increasing personality? I breathe a large sigh of relief that reality prevailed among the voters.

Mr. Klein continues on, including words like ?covertly?, ?subterfuge?, ?deception? and ?ulterior motives? in his depiction of Mr. Adams. In addition, he attempts to instill fear in Adams? parishioners that the Church tax exempt status is at risk because Mr. Adams acted within his first amendment rights as a citizen (another sigh of relief this guy never made it into public office).

I had the pleasure to meet briefly with Mr. Adams at the LARSE meeting where we were both speakers and found him extremely open and honest in his manner with me, as well as his public pronouncements at the meeting.

It does not surprise me that Mr. Klein should have used the words quoted above, since they are ones which are included very often in the school in which he is intimately involved and has participated in for many years, most often they are used in the context of government conspiracies, railing against churches and inducing fear of secret aliens (of the ufo kind) conspiracies.

I guess that somehow he feels all that qualifies him to comment on Mr. Adams writings and motives ??.not being in alignment with the inclusive concepts of brotherhood practiced at Southern Christian.?

While Mr. Kleins' family might very well be friendly with former Senior Minister Bob Russell, I am fairly certain that Minister Russell would not have condoned the arranging of a plane ticket to carry a 16 year old girl across the country in collusion with a 43 year old man, knowing that this was all being done expressly against her parents wishes which is exactly what Mr. Klein did.
I know?. I am her father.

Was that a collective sigh of relief from those that voted for Mr. Klein I just heard???

Perhaps we should check out as Mr. Klein suggests in the conclusion of his letter just who is ?hiding out about who he really is??

In all fairness, Mr. Klein was afraid that this might come back to haunt him when he initially participated in the above-mentioned event.

Happy Halloween, Mr. Klein!
Robert Menna
Los Angeles, CA

November 1, 2007 5:38 PM
Steve Klein said:
Mr. Menna,

Your letter was the first one on the editorial page this week, in the NVN. While the NVN chose to abridge your letter, all letters here are published unabridged, unless their content denigrates another individual or uses unsuitable language.
Therefore, yours is printed here, unabridged in any way.

Thank you for your interest in the Yelm Community Blog.

November 1, 2007 6:09 PM

Steve Klein said:
The policy of this blog is to always allow anyone to share their views ... with the request that they are based on true facts... With that in mind, let's get the true facts of my experience in response to Mr. Menna claims...
In mid - 1991 I was asked by Bodananda to assist him in procuring an airplane ticket with his credit card for one of his friends, as I have done with other friends and acquaintances. I gladly agreed to help him with the purchase of a ticket from NYC to Seattle for an Alexandra Menna, about whom I knew nothing at the time.
Since this was 10 years prior to 9/11, there were no ID requirements, unless a person was an unaccompanied minor (14 and under). Bodananda confirmed the fact that she was older than 14 at the time, which Mr. Menna has verified as well.
Later that year I was contacted by the NYC Police at the request of Mr. Menna asking questions for an investigation as to my involvement in Ms. Menna's "disappearance" and whereabouts, since they had subpoenaed her airline record with my name as the contact. I answered all I that I knew, which was only about the airline ticket and purchaser. I was cleared of any wrong-doing or of being part of an accessory in the NYPD case.
That was the last I ever heard of this until Mr. Menna's stories surfaced last week.

November 3, 2007 7:01 PM
YCT said:
Dear Mr Klein:

Congratulations on holding your tongue while others wagged theirs filled with lies, superstition, innuendo, and greed.

A wise man once said that "Timing is everything". So I congratulate you again for raising the question "Who Is Jeff Adams?"

Thanks to your letter to the editor, NVN readers are finally brought up to speed - is it 2 years now? - on who this person is and why he has such a keen interest in Yelm.

Thank you for shedding the light on this heretofore subsumed issue. Most appreciated!

November 5, 2007 5:47 PM


My unpublished comment

Steve,

Upon reading your note to me, I went back and re-read my Nov. 1st comment.

I read your response for the first time. You stated that you request posters to post true facts. Yet, then you state ?I gladly agreed to help him (Bodananda) with the purchase of a ticket from NYC to Seattle for an Alexandra Menna, about whom I knew nothing at the time.?

According to Bodanana, he said that you had refused to get involved at first (to your credit) but were then persuaded to purchase the ticket. You had thought that it ?might come back to haunt you?. Several others intimately familiar with the circumstances and persons involved have corroborated these facts.

With regard to your following statement; ?Later that year I was contacted by the NYC Police at the request of Mr. Menna asking questions for an investigation as to my involvement in Ms. Menna's "disappearance" and whereabouts, since they had subpoenaed her airline record with my name as the contact. I answered all I that I knew, which was only about the airline ticket and purchaser. I was cleared of any wrong-doing or of being part of an accessory in the NYPD case.?

The true facts are you were not contacted by the NYC police at my request. I had filed a missing persons report (fact of record) because I was unaware of my 16-year-old daughters whereabouts and welfare. You were never cleared of wrong doing because you had not been accused of any by either the NYPD or, myself. You were never accused of being an accessory either.

In my comment I simply said ?I am fairly certain that Minister Russell would not have condoned the arranging of a plane ticket to carry a 16 year old girl across the country in collusion with a 43 year old man, knowing that this was all being done expressly against her parents wishes which is exactly what Mr. Klein did.
I know?. I am her father.?

There is nothing factually wrong or misrepresented in my statement. Had I felt criminal prosecution was to be followed, I would have contacted the District Attorneys Office.

I was merely pointing out you were in a manner of speaking being the pot calling the kettle black. What you did may not have been criminal, but I feel would certainly be considered unethical to most people.





After starting this thread, Steve Klein eventually posted my responses. Below are the continuing conversations, or one can simply go to the yelm blog and search Oct 31st 2007, and March 13th 2008.


Steve Klein said:
I knew no-thing as to this woman's parents' wishes at the time, nor who her parents were, not until I received a call from NYPD, long after the airline flight. There was no law or requirement at the time for a 16 year old to have an ID or parental consent to board an aircraft in this country, so there was no reason to question an airline ticket purchase for a 16-year old. Indeed, there is no parental consent required today for a 16 year old to board an airline's flight within the USA, regardless of who purchased the ticket.

If all is as you say, then:
1. you knew who purchased the airplane ticket
2. you knew the destination, address and host of your daughter and indeed her exact locale,

then why as a concerned parent did you not get on an airplane and come get her? That is what is so baffling, these 17 years later in your pressing this issue?

April 6, 2008 3:39 AM


Robert Menna said:
Hi Steve,

Thank you for eventually publishing my response.

It appears while you disregard and dodge the facts as I have responded to your version of the event involving our daughter, you do seem to be disputing that you knew any of the circumstances surrounding the event. That you continue to do so despite others (Bodananda as well as our daughter included) have stated otherwise stands on its own in spite of your denial of that fact.

I would be glad to address your questions and enlighten you.

We only knew our daughters whereabouts and location once the NYPD reported them to us. We were glad that she had been located and the law enforcement officials had spoken with her. At that time our daughter let them know that she did not wish to have contact with us. We respected that and in any case at the age of 16 she had the right to self emancipation.

That is the reason I did not "come and get her".

Why that is important for you in the context of your original blog comments doesn't baffle me, it is an obvious technique to divert attention from the real issue which was originally my comments with regard to the way in which you questioned Pastor Adams writings and motives and said they were not in alignment with the inclusive concepts of brotherhood practiced at Southern Christian. Then you referred to a family friend X- minister Bob Russell. I was pointing out that the deeds and ethics you wanted to attempt to hold others to in words were not reflected in your own past actions.

Interesting is what you have left out. Certainly by now you are aware of what the situation was. You have neglected to comment on if you would have behaved differently (as you originally had felt) today knowing the facts, Would you have asked more questions? What part did you play in helping to create that reality? In addition, is it that you are asking me why I did not "come and get her" because that is what you would have done if one of your children had decided to be taught by a 35,000 year old (give or take) "entity" on the other side of the country?? Is that why you are baffled???

There is and has been nothing in my comments to indicate that I am "pressing" indicating a required compelling immediate response. I am not looking for that.

Since our daughter left RSE along with her husband, they are enjoying a wonderful family, and prospering careers and continue to grow in many more avenues then were offered in the limiting environment of RSE.

May 5, 2008 2:33 AM


Steve said:
To quote you,
"We respected that and in any case at the age of 16 she had the right to self emancipation."


And that is the truth, so any issue you have had with me about assisting with a plane ticket is mute.


Quoting you from your Nov. 1, 2007 post:
"While Mr. Kleins' family might very well be friendly with former Senior Minister Bob Russell, I am fairly certain that Minister Russell would not have condoned the arranging of a plane ticket to carry a 16 year old girl across the country in collusion with a 43 year old man, knowing that this was all being done expressly against her parents wishes which is exactly what Mr. Klein did.
I know?. I am her father."

This is also irrelevant since your daughter was "at the age of 16 she had the right to self emancipation."

I wonder if you would write a Letter to the NVN, post an entry on Enlighten Me Free & address Pastor Adams' group so that recipients of your published, denigrating remarks about me issuing a plane on your daughter's behalf know that your daughter was "at the age of 16 - she had the right to self emancipation"?
I expect not.

Regarding your closing comment,
"Since our daughter left RSE along with her husband, they are enjoying a wonderful family, and prospering careers and continue to grow in many more avenues then were offered in the limiting environment of RSE."

Then isn't this wonderful?

You are a blessed and rich man all of these 17 years later!
Time to move on...

I wish you well in your endeavors and life's adventures, Mr. Menna.

May 8, 2008 1:39 AM

My response 5-22-08

Hi Steve,

Once again, you attempt to deflect and detract from the original issues which were the statements you made regarding Jeff Adams and your attributing of ?covert ? motives and such to him. You convienently leave out any questions that I have asked of you, that?s ok, that speaks volumes in and of itself.

I will comment within your response again so that all is in context.


Steve said:
To quote you,
"We respected that and in any case at the age of 16 she had the right to self emancipation."


And that is the truth, so any issue you have had with me about assisting with a plane ticket is mute.


**First of all, I assume you meant to use the word moot instead of mute. I have hardly been mute. With regard to your statement, one thing has nothing to do with the other. You procured the plane ticket long before we were aware of our daughters state of mind or location.. The issue was with you casting dispersion on Mr. Adams when you yourself were involved in the questionable affair of arranging the transportation of our daughter given the circumstances.

Steve said:
Quoting you from your Nov. 1, 2007 post:
"While Mr. Kleins' family might very well be friendly with former Senior Minister Bob Russell, I am fairly certain that Minister Russell would not have condoned the arranging of a plane ticket to carry a 16 year old girl across the country in collusion with a 43 year old man, knowing that this was all being done expressly against her parents wishes which is exactly what Mr. Klein did.
I know?. I am her father."

This is also irrelevant since your daughter was "at the age of 16 she had the right to self emancipation."

**What I stated does not make your statements with regard to Minister Russell and Jeff Adams in any way ?irrelevant?. Just because you say so does not make it so. Indeed, my statement is quite relevant.

In fact, I felt it relevant enough to contact Minister Russell and appraise him of the current conversation. I gave him a brief history of our discussion along with links to your sites, rse?s site, Pastor Adams site, enlightenmefree?s site, as well as a few news articles.

The following is a direct quote from Minister Russell:

?I?m not recalling Stephen R. Klein, but my memory isn?t great on names. Even if I know him I wouldn?t agree with the assertion that, ?you are God or that consciousness and energy create the nature of reality? if he were my closest friend. You can pass that along if you wish.?

I would suggest that if you really feel that your statements about Jeff Adams behavior not being in alighnment with Southern Christian and that Minister Russell is in agreement with you and that also he would support aiding in the transportation of a 16 year old girl across the country under the circumstances that existed then by all means, ask him for yourself, and should he agree with you, I will retract my statement


Steve said:

I wonder if you would write a Letter to the NVN, post an entry on Enlighten Me Free & address Pastor Adams' group so that recipients of your published, denigrating remarks about me issuing a plane on your daughter's behalf know that your daughter was "at the age of 16 - she had the right to self emancipation"?
I expect not.

**I am confused that you would say you felt my remarks to be ?denigrating? about you. Especially since you stated at the time you published my letter the following:

?Your letter was the first one on the editorial page this week, in the NVN. While the NVN chose to abridge your letter, all letters here are published unabridged, UNLESS {emphasis mine} their content denigrates another individual or uses unsuitable language.
Therefore, yours is printed here, unabridged in any way.

Thank you for your interest in the Yelm Community Blog.?

Perhaps, you have come to realize that your past actions with regard to the procuring of the ticket fof our daughter would indeed bring with them some questions with regard to character and integtrity and you choose now to view them in that light which would in my opinion at least show some welcomed remorse on your part.

Just so you know, I did already post the quote you mentioned on the enlightenmefree site and additionally I informed the NVN of the conversation and a link to the blog.


Steve said:
Regarding your closing comment,
"Since our daughter left RSE along with her husband, they are enjoying a wonderful family, and prospering careers and continue to grow in many more avenues then were offered in the limiting environment of RSE."

Then isn't this wonderful?


**Actually, there is no question about it!! It most certainly is wonderful!


Steve said:
You are a blessed and rich man all of these 17 years later!


**I truly am!!!

Steve said:
Time to move on...

**Yes , let us.

Steve said:
I wish you well in your endeavors and life's adventures, Mr. Menna.


**Thank you.







MARCH 13TH YELM BLOG RE JZ. KNIGHT LAND USE APPEAL


Steve Klein addresses current issues impacting Yelm and vicinity and provides a meeting place for anyone with an interest in this area to provide their ideas and opinions
March 13, 2008
"JZ KNIGHT CHALLENEGES CITY OF YELM'S APPROVAL OF 5 PROPOSED SUBDIVISIONS"

(PHOTO)



JZ Knight

This writer has received several requests for a further explanation as to JZ Knight's challenge to 5 proposed subdivisions the City of Yelm approved. While The Olympian covered this issue in a brief story on March 5th, the local Nisqually Valley News (NVN) did not.

[UPDATE: The NVN published a front page story on this issue in their March 14th edition, 10 days after Ms. Knight's Press Release.]

This story was covered here on the Yelm Community Blog on March 6th and The Olympian on March 5th.

On April 28, 2006, The Olympian reported this about Lacey, "Last June, the city imposed a de facto moratorium on new development within its urban growth area because it is rapidly running out of water it?s authorized to withdraw." [For access to this story, scroll down on the hotlink to " Lacey signs on to water deal"].

Is Yelm next?

For area readers to see Ms. Knight's views unabridged, the following is the Press Release from her Public Relations firm on this subject:

JZ Knight challenges City of Yelm?s approval of five proposed subdivisions
Knight files Land Use Petition in Superior Court of Washington citing lack of available water resources to meet current & existing demand

Yelm, WA. [March 4, 2008] ? JZ Knight, the founder of Ramtha?s School of Enlightenment (www.ramtha.com), has filed a Land Use Petition in the Superior Court of Washington challenging the City of Yelm?s decision (Resolution No. 481, adopted February 12, 2008) approving five proposed subdivisions (Tahoma Terra Phase II, Divisions 5 & 6; Windshadow I; Windshadow II; Wyndstone; and Berry Valley I). The petition states that the Petitioner?s ?personal and property rights and interests will be directly and adversely affected by the City?s decision? based on the fact that substantial new development and new water demand will greatly exceed the City?s ability and legal rights to provide adequate water service.

City evidence shows that the City of Yelm exceeded its water rights in both 2006 and 2007 and has not accounted for the water supply that will be needed to serve approved projects. The Petitioner?s opinions are further bolstered by evidence from the Washington State Department of Ecology confirming that the City?s water demand exceeds the City?s water rights.

The Land Use Petition affirms that ?Petitioner?s water rights have priority over, and are protected against impairment by, all subsequent new uses of water, including new water rights and changes to all existing water rights, such as would be required to serve the proposed subdivisions.? Yet, despite lack of demonstrable water availability, the five proposed subdivisions were approved by the Yelm City Council on February 12, 2008. In fact, the City?s own Comprehensive Water Plan concedes that acquiring any new water rights is ?increasingly difficult, if not impossible.?

With respect to additional water rights the City hopes to acquire by 2012, the City?s own water plan acknowledges that it is ?unlikely? that a new well source will be approved or that water rights will be granted by the Department of Ecology. Knight?s Petition asserts that the City?s own water plan undermines the City?s claim that it will acquire significant new water rights to serve future development.

?It is abundantly clear that the City of Yelm does not have an adequate potable water supply to serve these approved projects,? states Knight. ?The City has not been able to stay within its legal water rights for the past two years. How will it serve the hundreds of homes it approved last year, which have not yet been built, when it already has a water deficit? And now it wants to approve another 568 homes? As I?ve stated all along, I am in favor of measured growth in Yelm but cannot, in good conscience, remain silent as the City of Yelm continues with unchecked development at a pace that cannot accommodate either current or future water needs without adversely affecting the existing residents of Yelm.?

?This court appeal would have been completely unnecessary if the Washington State Department of Ecology and Department of Health would have stepped in to protect the public interest by requiring that the City of Yelm have responsible plans in place for providing potable water to new development. Unfortunately, the agencies have not used their authority to protect the public?s interest.?

The Land Use Petition also cites a number of erroneous interpretations of the law by the City of Yelm in its final decision on the five proposed subdivisions, including the following: the City relied on erroneous information regarding its legal water rights in making determinations of current and future potable water supplies; the City failed to provide reasonable and non-speculative evidence of an adequate future potable water supply to serve these five proposed subdivisions; and, the City failed to require compliance with the State Environmental Policy Act (SEPA) and other conditions imposed on these proposed subdivisions in the City?s prior land use approvals.

Copies of the Land Use Petition filed in the Superior Court of Washington in and for Thurston County are available for review upon request by contacting Liam Collopy, Media Representative for JZ Knight, at 310.300.0950 x 232 or via e-mail at lcollopy@LCOonline.com.


About JZ Knight
JZ Knight was born in Roswell, New Mexico, in March 1946. She is the author of the bestselling autobiography, A State of Mind: My Story, the unique channel of Ramtha the Enlightened One, and one of the most charismatic leaders of the Schools of Ancient Wisdom and the Great Work in the world today.


Press Contacts for JZ Knight:
Liam Collopy
Vice President
LCO - Levine Communications Office
1180 S. Beverly Dr. Third Floor
Los Angeles, CA 90035
E: lcollopy@LCOonline.com
T: 310.300.0950 x 232
F: 310.300.0951
www.LCOonline.com

Andrea Nicastro
Account Executive
E. andrea@LCOonline.com
T. 310.300.0950 x236

By Steve on March 13, 2008 6:34 AM | Permalink | Comments (4) | TrackBacks (0)

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4 Comments
Robert Menna said:
I happened across your article while doing a search on the controversy re the developments in the area and JZ?s attempt to stop them.

I read the piece a few times, it kept on mentioning evidence and such as to her reason for her appealing her appeal to stop the permits from being issued.

I was going to ask if you could post it, but a few min. search on the net provided me with some relevant facts and figures.

It appeared her initial arguments were rejected on what seemed to me like very sound grounds, she didn?t like that and filed an appeal but her atty. Mr. Moxon (is that with an r?) failed to make a differing argument. He basically just filed the same augments again. Economical for him (and I would hope JZ), but hardly worthy of any jurisdictions notice. Especially so since she claimed to have damages but failed to list what they were.

For those who wish to read each party?s arguments and the conclusions reached and why see, [the city of Yelm website, as this comment area does not accept URLs]:

I mean, I totally understand wanting to keep a small town small. Yelm is a beautiful place and it smallness has been part of its appeal, at least for a big city guy like myself. If that is what is really going on here, have some integrity and say so, don?t use the water issue as a red herring.

By the way, I was not able to find anything about the location of the developments in relation to JZ?s property, could you point me in the direction if you know where I might find that? Thanks.

Re the water issue, you ran for public office, so surely you must understand the need for advanced thinking, predicting trends, population, tax revenue, etc. I would imagine you would understand why JZ?s request was not only invalid, but also unsubstantiated, as well as unreasonable. I don?t fault her, except her poor choice of battles to fight and her attorney?s inability to form a coherent argument in her favor. Apparently, he did not know the difference between an ordinance and a resolution. Even if he had, he failed to do enough further research and see that that particular resolution had been repealed in the late 90?s!!

I would also hope that you would recognize the fact of Thurston County?s record on water conservation as well as Yelm?s and have some confidence in their ability to handle what they have been elected to do, not what a lone business entity would say they are suppose to do.

The LOTT Alliance reclamation through managed waste is saving over ? million gallons per day or 146 million gal. per year. The Yelm reclamation project expansion has added an additional 700,000 Gal per day.

That is quite substantial for a town with a population of 4,845 (2007) in addition; the statistics show the towns growth in the last 7 years has slowed approximately 40% since the period of time during 1990-2000.


I think it might be fair to suggest that a large part of the increase during the 1990-2000 period was due in large part to the number of people who moved to Yelm to be closer to RSE as well as being in a purported safe, protected environment as the big dude had been predicting all sort of cataclysms as well as dooms day scenarios and that Yelm was the ?safe place to be? (How would that make sense if now there is the fear of there not being enough water to go around???)


You know, thinking about it and after reading your article on the economic impact the population of the school has in the community (by the way, I would hazard a guess that at least 75% of all out of town student $?s get spent towards events and JZK inc. operated entities.), I did some quick math on the effects of water usage using the numbers you provided and figuring the average water usage per capita at being 50 gallons per day which I would think are probably conservative.

At that rate, the whole city of Yelm uses approx (@ the 50 gal per day per capita rate) approx 88,421,250 gal per year. The new units (given an average household of 2.67) would use approx. 27,677,950gal. Per year. This is a substantial increase (over 30%) to the estimated annual usage. However, when you view in terms of how much the Yelm reclamation expansion saves per year, it is only a bit less then a 10th of that.

In addition, if you figure that each RSE student spends a total of 25 days per year @ 50 gal per day that amounts to 6,778,625 gal per year. Remember that quite a few of these are not even city residents. They drink and use the water that is paid for by the public through taxes and bonds while spending the greater balance of their disposable income @RSE or, RSE related enterprises.

If each one ONLY spent a total of $1,000.00 per year @ RSE or RSE entities, that ads up to over 6 million dollars and I would think I have been conservative in my figures here also.

So, again, I would question the water claim. It was mentioned to me a few weeks ago that the area is expected to experience a bit of a housing boom due to the returning troops from Iraq. (Glad to see them get home!!) While I do understand the desire to keep a beautiful place the same, as with all places, people like to live in nice places and to deny, returning troops the POTENTIAL to have homes in a wonderful community is resisting a change that is inevitable. After all, it is all about being able to change, no???

Again, my math was quick. Should you find substantial errors in the numbers, please let me know.

Regards,
Robert Menna

March 18, 2008 1:56 PM
Robert Menna said:
Hi Steve,

Thank you for eventually getting my comment posted.

There were a couple of things left out, I understand it is because urls are not supported in the comment area (Something that you might want to address since not only were they relevant, but they show the veracity of and supported my comments) They also make it easier for the reader to see where ones information has come from.

In this regard I will put them down here in a way which should be supported.

All one would have to do would be put in front of the address the three w's dot and it will take you to the sites I referenced.

Re: the hearing documentation.
www.ci.yelm.wa.us/agenda/attach/7.htm

Re:the work both Thurston County as well as Yelm have done in water conservation.

http://www.trpc.org/resources/10_profil ... ources.pdf

Re:The Yelm population and growth statistics

http://www.trpc.org/resources/profile07 ... s_yelm.pdf

Re:My suggestion that a large part of the population growth in Yelm during the 90's could be attributed to the large influx of RSE students who moved to the area because they were told Yelm was a protected area from "the days to come".

www.whyaretheydead.net/misc/Factnet/CO0906AB.TXT

In addition, in your note to me you stated "The Washington State Dept. of Ecology has stated that Yelm does not have the water rights the city says they have and therefore, are unable to provide water to all those to which they have committed." I was unable to find where they said that. Could you refer me to where you got that statement from??

Thanks
Robert Menna

March 18, 2008 6:52 PM
Steve Klein said:
In answer to your question, Mr. Menna,
that information was from Ms. Knight's appeal at the Closed Record Hearing & can be found on the City of Yelm website.

www.ci.yelm.wa.us/agenda/attach/11.pdf

Additionally, I contacted the WA. State Dept. of Ecology and verified that to be true. The WA. Dept. of Ecology processes changes to existing water rights and sometimes works on new applications. Yelm has some new water rights applications that are not approved, nor can they be considered to be approved, because their approval is not assured and can take years. Major consideration is given so that original users and senior water rights holders are not impaired.
Therefore, to approve development without first acquiring additional water rights could be a conflict for the city in the future.

March 20, 2008 12:19 AM
Victoria Blazejewski said:
Published in the NVN on March 21, 2008
Editor:

The shortage of water is not confined to Yelm alone. As this week's issue of the NVN headlines, "Rainier weighs options as water hookups dwindle".

Readers of the Olympia paper will know that the cities of Lacey, Olympia and Tumwater have all been eagerly vying for the water rights of the historic Tumwater brewery since its closure.

A quick search on Google for "water shortages" will yield a plethora of water woes worldwide as this precious commodity becomes scarce from frivolous, wasteful usage
to outright pollution and careless management.

Anyone championing the conservation of water, coupled with wise growth management, is to be commended for their far vision which protects many, instead of a few.

With respect to your subtitle "Legal fees alone will cost the city more than $50,000" in the accompanying article about JZ Knight's appeal concerning water rights, it is
difficult to feel sorry for the city when it had every opportunity to pursue her request during normal council meetings, as reported previously by the NVN, and which
could have avoided the necessity of taking the matter to court.

The city chose unwisely.

It is the moral obligation and responsibility of the city to provide enough water for its existing residents and businesses. If it cannot do so, common sense dictates a
moratorium on development so that the needs of the many may be preserved over the needs of a few.

Let us pray such wisdom prevails.

Very truly yours,
Victoria Blazejewski





March 22, 2008 3:14 AM

MY UNPUBLISHED 3/21/08 COMMENTS

Steve,

I noticed you fixed it so that links can now be posted in the comment section, thank you. Would you please re-insert the web addresses in my comments to make it easier for the reader to access the information should they wish to? Thanks in advance.

On your site you have stated:

?The policy of this blog is to always allow anyone to share their views ... with the request that they are based on true facts... With that in mind, let's get the true facts??.?

In the same spirit, I would like to examine the facts you have put forward. My method for doing so will be to include your comments to be clear in context.




Steve Klein said:


??In answer to your question, Mr. Menna,
that information was from Ms. Knight's appeal at the Closed Record Hearing & can be found on the City of Yelm website.
www.ci.yelm.wa.us/agenda/attach/11.pdf??


I was aware of that I read the documents. However, her saying so, does not make it so.


??Additionally, I contacted the WA. State Dept. of Ecology and verified that to be true. ??

Unfortunately, you neglected to give the name of the person you spoke with at the WA. State Dept. of Ecology [WSDE]. So, when I spoke with Mr. Tom Loranger, Regional Office, Resource Water Manager, I was unable to let him know who had given you your information. In any event, your information was incorrect. Mr. Loranger stated the WSDE never said that Yelm was not able to provide water to all those it had committed to.

Again, the only person who has said that is JZ Knight via her attorney Mr. Moxon and again, just because they say so, does not make it so.

Now, there had been discrepancies between the calculations of water flow between WSDE and Yelm. Mr. Loranger said that these have been resolved. With Yelm agreeing to use the same computations as the WSDE. In addition, Yelm has agreed not to exceed their water rights use in 2008. They will be reporting their water use using the new computations based upon the WSDE.

All in all it appears the system is working just fine. Several jurisdictions have resolved discrepancies in dealing with each other. With the State prevailing over the town, the same way in which I would imagine the State probably complies in certain respects to the Federal.


??The WA. Dept. of Ecology processes changes to existing water rights and sometimes works on new applications. ??

Mr. Loranger said the WSDE does not really get involved in permit disputes.

??Yelm has some new water rights applications that are not approved, nor can they be considered to be approved, because their approval is not assured and can take years. ??

Unfortunately, or, fortunately, if one looks at it, there is not much that is ?assured? in this life. What you are attempting to say does not make sense. You are saying Yelm has new water rights applications that are not approved and that some how the fact that they cannot be considered to be approved (at this point in time, because they are not approved), Their approval is not assured???? I have to use a much-maligned CA saying here?DUH!! So what??

If all permits were assured how would that work exactly?? Kind of takes the meaning out of the word permit doesn?t it??? Can you really imagine going to the Office of Assured Permits???


??Major consideration is given so that original users and senior water rights holders are not impaired.
Therefore, to approve development without first acquiring additional water rights could be a conflict for the city in the future.??

Here again, you say therefore, relying on your previous erroneous statements that by approving development without acquiring first additional water rights could be a conflict for the city in the future.

Fact is that is exactly how it is normally. One should have ?reasonable? expectations of how the future should be perceived. The County acts in good faith with the town and visa-versa there is a level of trust involved that perhaps you are unfamiliar with. Governments function like that so that things can get done and not get bogged down in minutiae that is what I see JZ knight doing. In the process, she adds to the taxpayer?s burden through their paying the costs of her senseless appeals.

To my knowledge Government has done a commendable job (talking Thurston County). Especially with regard to water usage, conservation and adjudication.

I do not believe that you ?reasonably? expect to walk into the Office of Assured Permits to Eliminate All Conflicts in the Future.

Then again, perhaps you can create that reality more then just in print. I assure you, I would I would stand in line there too when you do!!
:lol: :lol:




Steve Klein said:

The grand thing about this issue is that a court will be looking at the views presented from all sides and make a determination.

That is what is so wonderful about our how our country handles its issues!

April 6, 2008 4:06 AM
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

JTR,

Excellent information. Mr. Klein's bias shines through.

As for Jeff Adams, I can also say that he is one of the most sincere people I've talked to. While I don't agree with his religious persuasion, that's secondary to the fact that he cares very much about the damage he has learned about, from ex-Ramsters' experiences. He has gone above and beyond, this I know, toward helpful outreach, WITHOUT trying to convert anyone. THAT I can respect.

As for your comment: "I forget who said it but it goes something like this;
"There is no reason to lie, because a selective telling of the truth is far more effective"
That is what the RSE training and teaching appears to do well at. "

I can attest that "Ramtha" has said, many times, that s/he is not telling us (students) the truth, because we couldn't handle it. Hmm, how about "This is a scam because you won't become God-man/woman realized in this life, fully able to do all the miracles that Jesus did and even more, because as my daughteren Judith Hampton has said to the attorney Krauckled, RSE is only intended to make people feel better about their lives."

Run, run as fast as you can ....

Thanks for the post, JTR.
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G2G
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Unread post by G2G »

Excellent information on how to not speak "the whole truth and nothing but" aka RSE-speak.

Perhaps if Judith did not insist on her followers walking around blindfolded on a football sized field of inches thick mud, there would be even less water usage by RSE. Who doesn't remember the lines of people waiting to hose off their boots and more, only to go back inside and be told to make new cards and back out into the mud. I dare not even speak about the shower facilities, when and if they function. A bit off-topic, but relevant when you have 1000 students stomping around in the mud and falling and continuously washing off their muddied gear.


:roll: :roll: :roll:
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

Hi G2G,

Yes, well, we were told that R sustains the water for the school. Never to worry about that. Guess he forgot about the part regarding purity, though. I'd been at a few events where the ranch water was either contaminated and/or had other problems, where we had to use only porta potties or drink water that we brough in.

Why wouldn't Ramthimher want to welcome the newbies into town, make water for them, too, and manifest that they all attend the RSE ????

Being a limited God has its problems; such limitations to still overcome.

:lol:
voidgate

Unread post by voidgate »

RSE misrepresents the truth and then holds others accountable. It is the normal methodology of how they operate.

Namely, if they are presenting fraudulent teachings and are fully aware they do not work, then they tell you it is your image ( for those not directly involved this means a person's human personality that operates by using others with an underlying ulterior motive) instead of telling the truth and admitting it is theirs.

Their actions are filled with lies, deceit and cruelty towards others. For the "teachers" I presume their paypackets are the motive. What sort of employment is someone going to get if they said they spent 20 years assimilating people into a cult ?

In Australia there is an expression, "lower than a snake's belly" RSE fits into this category very well.
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edit

Unread post by journeythroughramthaland »

Just a note to acknowledge that Steve Klein eventually posted my responses. I have added any additional comments to the thread
JTR
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner
journeythroughramthaland
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Unread post by journeythroughramthaland »

I have added a bit more to the Jeff Adams blog reposted here from Steve Kleins site. I would imagine he will post it in a few days on his blog. Or, perhaps not, one never knows.
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner
journeythroughramthaland
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It is what it is

Unread post by journeythroughramthaland »

Looks like Steve Klein has decided to not post my response to his comments. Possibly because the actions they expose are what become denigrating to him. Or perhaps the master of ceremonies has forbidden it. In any case, here is a fine record of lack of integrity, accountability as well as common sense. Those who doubt, just read the guy in his own words. :oops:
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner
journeythroughramthaland
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looks like a duck, walks like a duck..........

Unread post by journeythroughramthaland »

I guess enough time and opportunity has passed to safely say Steve Klein is unable to face his own reality of what he has created. Saying ones site is open to all is one thing. Actually making it happen when facts don't fit ones liking is another. The need to portend one reality and live another is the best reason to understand how long term RSE students define reality. Say one thing and do another. Actions speak louder then words. I rest my case.
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

JTR said, "Say one thing and do another. Actions speak louder then words. I rest my case."

Exactly.

Actually, I would like to THANK Steven Klein for his lack of integrity in dealing with JTR. It gives everyone reading the opportunity to see a first hand, "red flag".

Caveat Emptor
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