What IS enlightenment??

What experiences led to your opinion that RSE is, or isn't, a cult ? Address issues; no flaming tolerated.
journeythroughramthaland
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What IS enlightenment??

Unread post by journeythroughramthaland »

Not having been a student myself, I have been wondering... If there is a school of photography, belly dancing, medicine, law etc all of those things have agreed upon definitions.

In that regard, I thought it might be interesting to hear the way current and x students defined enlightenment prior to going to RSE, and if that definition changed while attending and afterwards. :idea: :idea: :idea:
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner
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littlewiseone
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Unread post by littlewiseone »

The definition of enlightenment in the school was tied into the creation story and the idea that we are to ascend back thru the seven levels of consciousness to again become one with.... um, ourselves. Geez, that sounds completely out there when I put it like that, but I guess it's pretty standard new age fare. My personal iinterpretation was that, as humans we needed to 'own' all our 'stuff' before we could move our energy and our bodies (I guess... as a result of moving our energy) to the next level. Of course, the actuality of what this was supposed to look like was left somewhat vague.

I no longer have a concept of enlightenment. My personal conclusion is that there is no such thing, except that as human beings we can choose to be 'more enlightened' in the sense that we can choose the high road and make choices that are not purely selfish but have the common interest of all human beings at heart. Of course I believe in a person's ability to change and mature but not with the goal of enlightenment, and certainly not to the purpose of becoming 'unemotional'. Talk about going against nature....

Anyway, I'm curious to hear what others have to say. :D
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make...

- The Beatles
tree
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Unread post by tree »

I would have to say I equated enlightenment with ascension while I was in RSE. We were told this was possible.
I don't recall thinking what I thought prior. JZR just enticed us with a nice story as far as I see it now.
I don't think I have a definition of it now. Still too much of a trigger. I don't even have a definition of God right now.
ordinarymind
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Unread post by ordinarymind »

Tree wrote: I don't even have a definition of God right now.
Yeah, me neither and that's one of the challenges I'm facing with having left the school...what is my definition of God now? After 15 years of thinking I knew what God was .. .well, maybe not "knew", but I accepted what I was told in the school . . .and I probably never really asked myself what I thought God was/is

. . . after leaving the school, I didn't want to throw everything out but it was difficult to know what was "true" for me and what was "dogma" .. .and so for a long while, I just sat in that place of seeing the contradictions and not trying to figure out what I believed because it felt a bit frightening to face the implications of the story not being true . ..the story of "englightenment" and "God" that the school offered had become so true and so precious to me that I was afraid I would have "nothing" to hold onto if I let go of it all . ...nothing to hold onto, no purpose to my life . ..what would my life be if I wasn't going to live for 250 years, if I wasn't going to go into my cocoon and come out the butterfly with "long black silk stockings" and "beautiful Oriental wings", if I wasn't going to create my reality with my powerful and fine-tuned focused mind . ..my belief in the teachings of the school and the promise of enlightenment and unfolding into god/man, god/woman realized had become so much of a focus in my life, that without that belief to hold onto, my life felt suddenly very bleak.

Life can still seem bleak some days when I look around and see the violence, the wars, the cruelty and destruction happening in the world and even in my own community. But to think that blowing or focusing on a card or doing a trance-like walk will somehow magically change all that and land me in a world of a higher frequency seems so naive. I am learning more to accept that I can't just blow it all away . ..I am learning to find that place within me where I can find love . ..I don't know if that is what is called "God" . .but, for now, it is a place I can trust to be there .. .

Anyway, what I really wanted to say here is that I'm finding it a big challenge to figure out what I do believe after all those years of indoctrination . ..but I know I don't want to throw everything out just because I'm throwing out the school.
tree
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Unread post by tree »

"Life can still seem bleak some days when I look around and see the violence, the wars, the cruelty and destruction happening in the world and even in my own community. But to think that blowing or focusing on a card or doing a trance-like walk will somehow magically change all that and land me in a world of a higher frequency seems so naive. "

I agree with you in the first line here. And that is almost an exact quote from JZ in one of the local papers.
"We are giving people hope in the desperate times." Sad that they play on that.

And that naive line...wow....ding! ding! ding! that was me as well.

Still working out what is god, whether there is re-incarnation or not, whether my atheist grandfather had the best approach, whether the
laws of attraction or Dale Carnegie has any relevance, etc.

I DO do what makes me happy though, these days. But NOT at the expense of others, as is the case with most RSE students.
I beleive compassion and empathy for others are qualities and skills to work with every day, bringing the world in a small way, more peace
and understanding.
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Robair
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About God

Unread post by Robair »

Hello guys
Tree,and ordinary.

Even though I have not been current since the end of 1996,I always consided my self to be a Ramster at Large,until last summer,when someone directed me to this site.
After 25 years of so knowing What I tought Who God was , it has been and still my bigest Challange to over come.
Every night when I go to bed and every morning when I wake up getting use not the call up on the God of my Being,and the confusion of not Knowing anymore What or Who God is or is not have realy been an interesting journey the last year o so..
I am pretty sure that most evryone on this site have similar,, how can I say it " nightmare " Maybe.
That is why I feel that before going around an preach my new undersanding, an freedom ,I need to Clean My own House.
I Have been reading lot of articles on this site ,( But not all I must admit) but none Have Approched this subjet in Profonder.
So it become a bit more difficult to help our Brother and sister stuck in That dark pit at the same time seaching for my self.
Thank for this site it has been a great great help and a good Pied A Terre for me to start my new freedom of thinking.
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Oldone

The Best Thing About The Future Is That It Only Come One Day At The Time
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Robair
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JTR

Unread post by Robair »

Hello agian
JTR,
About enlightenment! I did not realy tought about it Before RSE, and and Now I put it in the Same Category, of my stroggle with God
Thank for all your help I do reed all your post, even though you have been on the out site your own stroggle must have been very hard,you bring a great Balance to this site.
Oldone
tree
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Unread post by tree »

"I am pretty sure that most evryone on this site have similar,, how can I say it " nightmare ""

what I was told by a therapist, these are commonly called "flashbacks."
one is sent back by one of the five senses back to a place in time at the Ranch.

just give your self time to just be.
see these past episodes for what they are.

and soon...you w ill have time to discern what is what.
journeythroughramthaland
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Thanks

Unread post by journeythroughramthaland »

Hi

Thank you all for stating your views.

I see that my questions have brought up some additional questions I had not forseen.

I will share with you my view of enlightenment. While I have always seen the term bandied about and used towards those attired in colored garb, sitting as if alone, and one who claims to have access to information beyond the reaches of most, I have always viewed it as being a process and not a particular state of mind or place to arrive at.

For me a school of enlightenment would be as viable as a school of thinking, school of breathing, or school of metabolism.

It is a process in which we all take part in from a very young age. We think, we discover, and rediscover and re-think varying things as we grow and our body of experiences grow.

That anyone can sell or, even claim to give away what is an innate ability raises the hair on my neck. Imagine if there were a tax on breathing or metabolizing.

What I hear from many of you is not just the feeling of being robbed monetarily, but of being robbed of a spiritual awareness as well. Quite often when ones belief system has experienced the equivalent of a natural disaster the questioning of ones spiritual place in the world is left exposed, strewn over miles instead of a few square feet where it previously rested.

Like the tornado victim, one may be hesitant to rebuild on the same ground even if their foundation is still strong. It will all depend on a variety of factors, which would include the cohesiveness of their community as well as their own ability to seek creative solutions.

In a community such as RSE where one is basically taught to look down, fear, and disengage from the surrounding community, the aloneness one can feel can be immense. It can be a double whammy of sorts. While being a community of like-minded people (RSE), the emphasis is on ?ones own reality? and therefore hampers the growth of cohesiveness (both good and bad) that is evident in other groups.

What I see as one of the more beneficial aspects of this site is that it provides a sense of community and understanding. It is no utopia mind you, again, it is no utopia and has all the other aspects and problems that will exist in any community. However, at the same time it provides a place of shelter and rest for those who choose to partake as well as a place for those who are courageous enough to test their prior principles among those who once held the same principles.

A part of me would like to be able to wave a magic wand and relieve those dealing with the difficulty of re-incorporating themselves into the surrounding society and spirituality but another part of me understands the individual nature of the human being as well as the herd nature of the human animal and respects them both.

I have observed over the years that it appears those gifted in a creative endeavor seem to have an easier time, not only in the group, but once they exit. When thinking about this, I think it might be because this was an ability they had prior to the group that they were not influenced to get rid of. While their creative juices might have been re-directed they were not eliminated.

Through my own journey of if not losing my mind but at least misplacing it, I came to be apprehensive of my own capability to fantasize, have faith, as well as magical thinking. Part of this was due to the fact that so much information out there at the time seemed to be saying that since ones critical thinking had been dampened down if not eliminated and that ones ability to fantasize and think ?magically? had helped lead them and keep them in the situation (mind controlled-thought reformed). These aspects and tendencies of ones personality should be avoided.

It has taken and I am sure will continue to take more time to re-integrate fantasy, faith and magical thinking into my life after my experience and I don?t expect to arrive at some place where it is all perfect. I just see it as an on going process, perhaps one of enlightenment?

:idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner
See&E
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Enlightenment & Mastery

Unread post by See&E »

For me, Enlightenment was both the journey and the promised manifest goal that would happen. In the beginning, even if we never came back into the audience, we were told we could find enlightenment. When the school was marketed and reorganized after the bomb scare and end of the dialogue era... it certainly was more than implied, that if you finally made "mastership" your primary goal, your ulterior motive over social consciousness of people, places, things times and events.. you would achieve. Then the cornerstone teachings were repeated over and over C&E. It was presented that what made this school different, was that this God spoke to us, and listened and guided us. In the beginning of hours, days, week(s) of disciplines. We were told we were being carefully guided and our bands were watched to just the right energy. Our focus, our breathing, our dedication through participation (remember, "You cannot fail this school, you can only quit" posted above where you pay your tally of gold).

The Enlightenment was that we would be able to do all those things, consistently and we would be sovereign beings (masters in the making). We would be able to heal ourselves and others, we would be able to remote view not only anywhere, but in the past or the future. We were being taught sacred (secret) teachings that no one else knew. It would allow us to survive the days to come (that are here). And for us making school and our teacher priority, and pulling out of the world of the stock market (set to fall) and all the trappings (we were told) of social (monkey mind) consciousness of living in polarity, we would eventually be able, as a consequence of our dedication... to levitate; to walk thru walls; and that the dirt of the great hall would be transmuted to saffron dust or gold.

We were told the reason we had to pay a tally of gold (and then some) was that all masters had to pay for this, althought the teachings were without price. It was also to help compensate our channel, who sacrificed this lifetime in order to bring us this truth. The other reason that EVERYONE (we were told) had to pay, was so that it would create value.
Now we discover that many people only paid sometimes, or at discounted rates. Still others never (ever) paid for their events.

In the context of the era the school was brought forth, with all manner of books, movies, and the new age movement, it didn't necessarily seem more out there than anything else people believed in. In fact, the very entertaining, humorous teachings pointed out the ironies, the hypocrocies, and illusions of all manner of dogma, of religions, and reasons why people believed in pptte.

So, enlightenment was a gradual process of "reclaiming your power" and learning self mastery on higher levels (seals). Toasting to 200 more years, and then 250 more years...

In the beginning, there was great love, and teachings of tolerance for all people, regardless of any manner of judgment. Some very beautiful ideals, and everyone who kept coming back, and even those that never dared attend the school, loved the teachings from the White Book or Love Yourself Into Life.

Now, enlightenment, has come to mean something very different. The romantic and beloved, cherished spiritual dreams of mysticism, and avatars, Masters, and loved ones watching over us, helping us has gone out. Enlightenment to me now, is finally realizing that with every statue of Christ, Kwan Yin, Budda, or any Master, pointing to their heart... it is as simple as to go within oneself... it is not outside of us, and requires no following, nor awarded by how much money one throws at any organization, church, religion, cult, or guru. Enlightenment, has become removing the heavy burden of believing others, no matter who or what they claimed to be true, or what they promised, from whatever text or sermon or teaching. One may approach enlightenment, just like the old kung fu t.v. series, when they can walk upon the rice paper, and leave no footprints.

It does not mean that we cannot choose to believe in something or someone, in fact it seems that it is essential to our being that we do! But, much as the original "classic" teachings shared, we do not have to seek it. By now, many multiples of 7 years later, none of the reproducible skills and gifts were manifest. I wish they had, for the thousands of people who gave up their vocations, left loved ones, spouses, family as lesser priorities or left them all together, in order to finally commit their lives to what they have been seeking (we were told) lifetime after lifetime.

Then, the benevolent, loving, tolerant hierophant transformed. We were told we didn't get results because we were not sincere, we didn't try hard enough, that we had ulterior motives, that we only want to see and be seen. Then we were repeatedly told that we were already dead, and this was our life review and we had a chance to do better. We were told that a master could think this way, and to at least consider that as a possibility to be true.

The beautiful toasts, drinking our water, being reminded to treat our bodies as the temples they were, evolved as we "advanced" into finally being able to understand the true meaning of a wine ceremony. Dropping the veils, and our Enlightenment now would be that when we became Masters, we could drink full goblets of wine, and bottles of wine and not be drunk with it, but had actually gone to "no time" where our focus would manifest, and our focus, and years of practicing would now be able to be manifest faster.

We were finally beginning to gain mastery and enlightenment. And any day now, our promised focus upon fabulous wealth and our lists would manifest and we would be sovereign beings and lights unto the world-- a world that sorely needed it.

For those that quit the school, they were the insincere, those who did not make it their true purpose. If you missed your mandatory events, you were no longer worthy of whatever knowledge you might be able to turn to your partner and share. Your consciousness had to start over, and you would have to pay. That is, except, unless you were given a special dispensation, or granted the ability to no longer have to pay. Then you meet people who shared that they only paid some events... or hadn't in years.

My idea of enlightenment is no longer with a capital "E". Further, it is not confined to any one school, or group, or those pptte that came in the name of God, of the Ascended Masters, of the Great White Brotherhood, or any other celestial, divine order.

One fine morn, indeed, you wake up. It is true. You have nothing more you can afford to give, and decades of practice of disciplines, or even more decades of affirmations, repetitive decrees, did not manifest the ability to continue. You reflect upon your life, the many things you have believed in, and come to form your own realization.

The school of enlightenment moved many of us past the ability to sit in pews and believe in simplier dogmas (if we hadn't already moved past that long before). However, when even the hand-selected soul mates of our teacher, and chosen teachers fell out of grace with the wonderful opportunity of a modern day (no longer ancient) mystery school of enlightenment, or gnostic school... it was much easier to observe, as in the observer
that our manifest reality before and around us was not what we'd imagined.

The glorious dawn still happens every day, and magnificent sunsets. The moon still waxes and wanes, and nature is still a powerful teacher. Millions if not Billions of humans still await the Messiah, or the Second Coming of the Christ, or more Science Fiction prophecies. As for prophecies and end of times matters, we were told years ago that our calendars were wrong and it was many years later than we thought. So, those dates have already come and gone.

Enlightened human beings, Masters, Leaders, and Lights unto our World, would not need to threaten, nor require lawyers, nor force. They would be loving, kind, genuine, tolerant and caring souls. They would see themselves in others, regardless of their age, and would find delight and joy in all creatures, and fellow members of the HU Man, HU Woman of our species. They would be at peace. They would know they have never failed. They would be loving to others, because they felt loved themselves. They would cherish the earth, and like the surviving stories, books, beliefs in Masters and Gods of our human history, myth and legend, they would be remembered.

See&E
Whatchamacallit
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This is a fantastic thread

Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

Two cents...

This thread was great reading. I've been away and now I'm reading and reading, to catch up. I can identify with just about everything everyone said. IMO it just goes to show how when we come down to it, we're all in wonder about the m eaning and purpose of life. We just took a detour through RSE in trying to figure it out. We were trying to figure it out - and master it so that "enlightenment" was no longer the unknown. We were going to make it known. We were going to attain God-man, God-woman REALIZED in the flesh, so we would have reached our own human potential, and could then help others and the world. I don't believe that means we are narcissitic in an unhealthy way, because if it does mean that, then the likes of Mother Theresa was also a narcissist, which I don't believe she was. We were SINCERE in our own way, as she was - a big difference. Some people become teachers because they enjoy working with children and want to be a helpful force in their lives - educating them. Others study years of medicine because they are intrigued by the mechanics of the human body, and want to help people be healthy so they can live productive lives in that way. It goes on and on, of course. For some of us, we were fascinated with God, the meaning of life, and becoming all we could be in THIS lifetime, now. Not unlike those who major in theology and/or philosophy; yet not exactly the same, either. We were willing to be selfless, because we were told we'd lose our ego in this God realization process; hardly something an unhealthy narcissist could bear !

RSE said in 7 years, if we committed and were dedicated to the teachings and disciplines, we would attain that goal because Ramtha would see to it, with his own power, that we arrived at the destination. It was a lie, didn't occur, and we were blamed.

Having reached enlightenment; a state of realized Godhood in the flesh, we would know All Things. We would look at a person and know everything about them, thus understanding them through THEIR eyes; leading to great compassion. We would be able to heal the world, and if one of us, as a critical mass, "made it", we would be able to focus on the entire planet and change the consciousness, singlehandedly. We wanted Heaven on Earth, so we focused to do our part in losing our own "self", for the greater good.

JTR, for me, I've come to accept that life appears to me to be a miracle I cannot explain. With RSE, and even to some degree organized religion, I could say that I "understood". Life was concrete because with the teachings, I knew the JZR answers. Now, I know that it's abstract and it's OKAY with me. I have my beliefs, and maybe I'm right, partly right, wrong, partly wrong. Doesn't matter. I thought long and hard about this after I finally left RSE. What is life ? What makes life ? For myself, I have concluded that WE (people) make life what it is. Of course there is the flora and fauna, yes. But, I'm talking about at a human level of life. Doesn't matter if we get old and croak and go to the worm. It is what it is and I can't change it, and neither can a Ramster. In the meanwhile, I can be miserable about what I don't know and understand, or I can make the most of the time I have to LIVE. If there is a God, and if there is a judgment after we croak, then we're all in trouble cuz not one of us will sparkle as perfect, as someone mentioned.

If infants do not receive "love" - the etheric force - the actions of caring, attentive parents (and others), they may die, or they may grow up to have severe emotional issues. In psychology, it is said that the basic, core need of all human beings is to love and be loved. It's as necessary as breathing air.

What we can control, is OURSELVES. We can be enlightened enough to know that we DO matter, each and every one. When we each take care of our own backyard (so to speak), we'd have made major progress toward a better world. I think that's what JTR was saying in his own way - enlightenment is the journey through life. We live, we love, we screw up, we live some more and we learn, learn, learn from ourselves and others, all the time. It's called impact. What a place it would be if we all made it a positive, expansive one.
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littlewiseone
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Unread post by littlewiseone »

Whatchamacallit said:

"Life was concrete because with the teachings, I knew the JZR answers."


I think this is so true and so poorly understood by those in the school, including me when I was current. Although the teachings supposedly were all about change and the unknown, everything about what was taught was rigid and defined to an absolute - if not now in some future teaching. At the same time there were so many questions and contradictions that all 'the ram' had to do was come out and spew off anything to remotely complete the picture and we jumped on it because we were so desperate to make the pieces fit.

Now, I'm ok with the mystery. I no longer think that one day I will know it all and understand it all. Strangely, since childhood whenever I would think about the world and the state things are in and find it difficult to understand why people do horrible things, I would come to the conclusion that one day I would know it all and feel at peace. In retrospect, I think this was a normal childhood coping mechanism, not some 'knowingness' about my future destiny.... To hang onto the notion as real would only be childish and ultimately hinder my own growth, which I believe can be the case with so many ramsters.
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make...

- The Beatles
tree
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Unread post by tree »

See & E and oldone
you have posted a tremendous amount of food for thought
and I will have to read and re-read this thread and give myself time for
digestion as you have put into words what I am experiencing as well.
a bit over whelming at times and to not have verbage of the ranch go
round and round in my head at any given time.
I even saw an ant and right away my brain goes onto "store food, do what
the ants have done for 60,000 years!"
and to endeavor to just sit and look at my surroundings without some JZR
line of "sit and contemplate a sunrise" takes some effort.
thank you for posting your well thought out thoughts.
Marie
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Unread post by Marie »

I confess I have not read all the posts on this thread yet either -- but needed to add, that this dilemma affects family members as well.. I had always considered my faith in god, a higher power, a good and loving "vibe" to be pretty rock solid... I don't subscribe to a particular religion, and my personal belief is that most religions have a man made spin to what was initially something "not of man"..... But now, watching my mother and sister's devolvement into rse, reading about others here on this board, I have to admit that I am at a place where I am completely clueless as to what I believe at this point.... Sometimes I think it actually makes more sense to think that we are really the result of some alien / animal experimentation, than that we are god created.... But this is what humans have been struggling with since the beginning of time, and exactly what cults / religions etc, purport to answer.... Personally, I don't get the whole "enlightened" thing..... As has been covered by this board before, to me, to be "enlightened" suggests one is not good enough as one is.... A friend of mine insightfully keeps saying about rse students "it's like they feel they have to be better than everyone else"......Life itself is a process of adventure, growth, maturity, one would hope in the areas that make a positive impact on the rest of the world, but you know, not everyone feels THAT way either... Some people "just don't get" kindness, compassion...etc.. Anyway, I am babbling... It's a big topic... Sometimes I guess I just have to be satisfied that "there is no one answer".. and I think LWO hit it on the head when she said that to not feel compelled to find "the one answer" is probably a sign of growth and maturity in itself.
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

"to not feel compelled to find "the one answer" is probably a sign of growth and maturity in itself."

Yeah, because if we have "the one answer", and we still act like jerks (humans who make mistakes sometimes, which of course we all do), then what's the point, or benefit in knowing "the one answer" ? Nothing. Abstract, and not having control of everything, really is okay, imo. Leaves room for some spice, too ! LOL
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Robair
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got lot of reading to do

Unread post by Robair »

Hello everyone
We have moved into our new house 3 days ago,Don't know what going on but it look like we are having a hard to fit our 2000 SQ foot house in the new 3000 SQ one, folks it does not fit will have to get rid of lot of stuff Again. Jut got the internet back today,I see I have lot of catching up to do, you guys have been very busy.
I will read between my Honey do stuff, and I have lot of them to do,my wife seam to have come up with a brand new list the last 3 days, I wont have to memorize that one just have to get it done, Not sure about retirement anymore, will have to find a small job just to go rest from it ,LOL, My wife have been the light of my life for 42 years, she get everything she want like I told David I am so greatful that RSE did not Spit us apart.
anyway for what ever it's worth I am back
Oldone
tree
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Unread post by tree »

(((hugs))) oldone.
and good luck with the honey do list. at least you don't have to memorize it!
that was very funny, btw.
oh, and I AM so very grateful and happy for you to have sustained your marriage
through all the crap of RSE. Best wishes in your new home.
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G2G
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Unread post by G2G »

""Enlightened human beings, Masters, Leaders, and Lights unto our World, would not need to threaten, nor require lawyers, nor force. They would be loving, kind, genuine, tolerant and caring souls. They would see themselves in others, regardless of their age, and would find delight and joy in all creatures, and fellow members of the HU Man, HU Woman of our species. They would be at peace. They would know they have never failed. They would be loving to others, because they felt loved themselves. They would cherish the earth, and like the surviving stories, books, beliefs in Masters and Gods of our human history, myth and legend, they would be remembered.""

This would be closes to my definition of "enlightenment" prior to RSE. I had never heard of "God-man/God-woman" realized in flesh, and people ascending according to their rate of vibrations. It took over a year for me to feel in touch with "God," or the Supreme Source, whatever name we give to it, it's still the same. I just allow myself to envision the light of love shining, adoringly, in its own light-a constant state of peace, happiness and grace-and when the light hits me, I feel the same and emit the same. It's a visualization, of course, but it's helped me, because initially when I left RSE, I felt spiritually void, and subsequently lost two family members. It was a time when I honestly needed my spirituality, and that was not there for me.
Trying to live as stated above is what I try and do everyday. So if something annoying occurs, I look at it as the "so what?" - for that matter, I no longer fear leaving this plane, and this has opened doors of adventures for me. I'm doing things I'd never have done before because I was afraid of dying. No longer. RSE instills a fear of such "you will die!" So what? I'm still me, here, there, wherever, and as littlewiseone's signature line states, "the love we take is equal to the love we make." So I just try and look beyond the person, empathize with them, and I find I'm loving them for who they are, including all the little "eccentricities" which might have driven me up a wall years ago. NONE of this is attributed to RSE. RSE robbed me spiritually, and I was only there for about a year, if even that.


8) 8) 8)
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

Congratulations, Oldone !!! And 42 years ! Good for you !!!! We're looking forward to that celebration, too. We will have our 34th anniversary at the turn of the year.

Moving into a new house is a lot of fun and excitement. We built our dream house and moved in, about a year and a half ago. I have a honey-do list for my hubby, too ! He's busy !! But, he loves working around the yard, building the decks, etc. He just made some nice gardens. This weekend he's going to varnish the deck with a clearcoat and paint the railings white to match the house.

If only I could get the kids to keep their peanut butter covered hands off my walls !!! LOL

I'm making a beautiful wall quilt for my living room. It's all good...and as you said...thank goodness that we made it in spite of RSE's stressors upon any relationship.

...and now...after the dream that I had of someone being pregnant a little while ago, my married daugther announced she is expecting our first grandchild. That's going to be a very wonderfully spoiled little baby !!!

Life is good. It is SO much better living a human life than a human-trying-to-be-a-God life ! We were told this reality is the ILLUSION. Ha ! The illusion is the RSE students chasing carrots that are always out of their reach

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ It's good for BUSINESS =-)

Party on !
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Robair
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Hello again

Unread post by Robair »

Hello
Tree thank you for the hugs an good wishes. I can see changes in your new posts from the one months ago,you seam to have reach a new level in you journey you sean to be more at peace with your self, maybe someday we can sit down face to face and just talk about the old and the new.
It is great to have you back.
Whatch. 34 years is very impressif, and a grand kid comming I remembered you writing about it on this site the dream you had about someone being pregnant what a great joy it must be to know that you are going to be Grandparents.We do not have any children,my wife had cancer at the age of 24 and had to remove all the working parts nessecary for that fonction, Please do not feel sory for us we had and still have a great life with no regrets what so ever,an never looked back,we do enjoy children have many around us including 52 nephews neices.
You mentioned that you have a list also for your hubby,great now I do not feel alone, When peoples ask us what we did to stay together so many years. my respond is, I always Have the last word, YES DEAR. very simple. looking forward to hear all about it.
Thank you for all your kindness everyone
Oldone
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

Congratulations to your wife, Oldone, for being a cancer survivor !!! That's great news.

It's also great news that you understand women, hehehehe. "Yes, dear." Those are magical words, hahahahha !!!

Maybe this is too much info - but - people sometimes assume my kids came to me easily (we have ten). They didn't. We started VERY young, and I had some pregnancies that were very problematic. One came very close to costing me my life. I came very close to a hysterectomy at age 20 (long story, too much information). I've had more than my fair share of tribulations in that regard. I understand your comment about enjoying your 52 nieces and nephews, more than you realize. They are all lucky to have you TO enjoy them. Not everyone cherishes the magic of short-lived childhood. I have a story to tell along that line, but it is too personal for me to post. Just trust me on that one :wink:

Hahahaha.....I will tell my hubby about you ! He's going to get quite a laugh out of your post ! Today hubby worked on doing a clearcoat stain on the decks outside, and picnic tables. It looks nice. I want the posts painted white, though. He was complaining to me tonight that he also needs to work in the garden. But, the woodwork needs to be taken care of first. A few more weeds in the garden won't be the end of the world.

I love LIFE. I'm just so happy, sometimes it just feels like fireworks coming out of my chest. It's so far removed from the stress I felt trying to be a God. God can worry about being God and I'll concern myself with being ME !!!! Complete with all my IMperfections. How liberating that is. Just don't let on to the hubbers that there are ANY imperfections. He mustn't know.
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Robair
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Good morning

Unread post by Robair »

Hello
WOW WOW 10 children, my god when did you have time to do anything,our favorite friend's daughter had twins 6 months ,she had her Mother that helped full time for the first 5 months,I mean 24/7 and now she have a nany 40 hrs a week and her mother helping 4 days a week,and she still have a hard time to do anything.
Reading all of your post I know you were kinda special with lot of wisdom in them,Now I know where it come from,and I must not forget your Hubby,WOW I am speachless now.
While my wife was reading your last post over my shoulder,I told her no wonders we did not have kids She had them all LOL.
Personel question if I may,How did you manage to go to school all those years,you must have been wittin child going to the ranch.
Like you we are much happyer since we have the Monky off our back,but still have few things that we need to face.
God can worry about Being God and I'II Concern my self with being Me,is a great way to look at it an something I can use.
Well Lady Whatcha,it is great to hear about story like your,it remind me that family life still strive somewhere in America.
Thank you for sharing.
About telling your hubby,He would not belive me anyway.

Oldone
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David McCarthy
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Unread post by David McCarthy »

Oldone posted..,

Reading all of your post I know you were kinda special with lot of wisdom in them,


I am sure I am giving away no EMF secrets here....
Whatchamacallit's wisdom and strength has been priceless in creating and guiding EMF from it's very first conception..
However..
Whatcha does have one terrible weakness ...

"Chocolate".

The truth will set ya free baby..

David. :wink:
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

Oldone.....my husband's job was very flexible and allowed me to easily travel to and fro. He could work from home and be with the kids, too. If his job hadn't been so flexible, I wouldn't have been able to go.

As for facing things - we all do that in our own time. In a way, maybe it's not worth hashing through certain things about it all, in our minds. We can't change it and it's water under the bridge, you know ? There is so much that I have learned just by talking to people who left RSE, (ex-students and also local townies), that what I realized is as much as I thought I knew, there was much more to the story. For ME, releasing can be better than needing to face "it", because it's part of that abstract thing - what we don't have a full story about - as well as being things that we can't change now. But we can move forward with what we do know, and accepting that we don't know it all, whether it's direct/indirect "stuff" with RSE, or other things. We have NOW and tomorrow.

I just wonder about your comment about needing to face some stuff. Do you REALLY have to face it, when you can't change it, anyway ? What good can come of it ? I mean - I hear what YOU'RE saying, but it really applies to all of us, I think.

David.......where did I find you ? Behave yourself. I don't like chocolate...............................much :D
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littlewiseone
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Unread post by littlewiseone »

Whatcha - I'd be happy to start an 'addicted to chocolate' forum with you anytime... :wink:
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make...

- The Beatles
ordinarymind
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Unread post by ordinarymind »

I just wonder about your comment about needing to face some stuff. Do you REALLY have to face it, when you can't change it, anyway ? What good can come of it ? I mean - I hear what YOU'RE saying, but it really applies to all of us, I think.

Hi Watcha and everyone . .Watcha, can you say more about what you're thinking re the above ....this is a territory I find myself swimming around in too . ..when do I want to/need to face some stuff so I can integrate it into my understanding and when can I just let it go because, like you say, "no good can come of it" anyway.

As I find myself childless and approaching 60, I often catch myself wondering what would my life would have been like if I hadn't "discovered" the Ram when I was in my mid 30's and I hadn't given up my career and left my community and given up my deisre to have children ...I wonder how different my life would be today. Sometimes I do feel some real heart-tugging regret that I bought in to the notion that I was one of the ones who would "give birth to yourself" rather than bear children in this lifetime ..that thought never would have occurred to me if I wasn't in the "great school". But, buy into it I did, and I left behind the notion of living a "normal life" and took on the daunting yet exciting path of an initiate in the "great school".

And so I often wonder, is this some of the stuff I need to face about the choices I made or is it something I need to just let go of and move on. I really don't know. There are times when the choices I made do haunt me and I wonder how different my life would have been if I had never seen the Hawaii videos or heard the name "Ram" ...but what good does it do, really, to wonder about that . .after all, I did make those choices and here I am today, so, like you say, I can't change any of it anyway, so might as well move on.

Some days are easier than others.
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

LWO, chocolate ? I'm on it ! My son bought me a chocolate fountain last Christmas. Isn't it good for us when we dip fresh fruit in it ? hehe

Ordinary...I have lots of thoughts on what you commented about. I'll respond tomorrow. The midnight clock is striking here, and I'm going to turn back into a pumpkin now. You know, I was chatting with someone on the phone today and I realized that now, after reading your post, there are a number of us on the same page with what you talked about (and Oldone). I'll probably start a new thread and we can chat about it.

JTR, see what you started with your enlightenment question!? Good job ! JTR rocks, really. But I won't share chocolate with JTR ! Them's fightin' words ! :D
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G2G
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Unread post by G2G »

""Whatcha - I'd be happy to start an 'addicted to chocolate' forum with you anytime... Wink""

Mind if I join you on that one?
:lol:

Chocolate is necessary to sustain human life (my words)...
It does have health benefits, they now find, especially the dark chocolate. So eat chocolate and feel good, and please let me hang around - I bring my own chocolate plus enough for others. :D :D :D I'm wondering if some people go to RSE just to "catch the gold-paper wrapped" chocolate coins they toss out to the audience - when they discuss "manifesting" gold coins! I just have to wonder exactly what's IN those oreos and coins! 8) 8) 8)
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

Hi G2G,

Yes, chocolate does have health benefits ! Of course you can join us :wink:

I have to admit, though, that I'm not so good about sharing it. I'm so bad I'll even snitch it from my kid's Halloween bags. Tsk, tsk. At least I'm honest, though. Just naughty.

Judith missed the boat. She could have used the chocolate instead of the wine. It has tastier health benefits.
tree
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Unread post by tree »

"As I find myself childless and approaching 60, I often catch myself wondering what would my life would have been like if I hadn't "discovered" the Ram when I was in my mid 30's and I hadn't given up my career and left my community and given up my deisre to have children ...I wonder how different my life would be today. Sometimes I do feel some real heart-tugging regret that I bought in to the notion that I was one of the ones who would "give birth to yourself" rather than bear children in this lifetime ..that thought never would have occurred to me if I wasn't in the "great school"."

as you wrote this, you remember how many times we sat in the audience and when JZR would come out and blithely say, "Where would your life be NOW if you had not met ME??!!" And how we all thought our life would have been stupid, social conscious, 'just the villager' lives.

How she manages to twist SERIOUS issues around just guals me at times. Like this one for instance.
I thought I was so fricking special that I chose so many life sacrifices to go to that stinking "school."

In the end, I have to realize, I DID make a choice. But the choosing was severely altered by continuous brainwashing and NLP techniques.
How much am I responsibe for then?
It's madness, sometimes, to think about.
I mean, looking back, I think the only decision making I could really do was along the lines of: do I buy freeze dried or do I can applesauce myself?

"And so I often wonder, is this some of the stuff I need to face about the choices I made or is it something I need to just let go of and move on. I really don't know. There are times when the choices I made do haunt me and I wonder how different my life would have been if I had never seen the Hawaii videos or heard the name "Ram" "

I think this is a very fine line and one has to give oneself some GREAT amount of give and take.

All I can do right now is say, uh, yes, I made the choice to move to Yelm, and at least NOW, my brain is much clearer to make
much wiser, non-inlfuenced choices.

Very moving post.
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Robair
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Tree

Unread post by Robair »

Hi Tree
After reading your post, I realized that even though we all have been true the same experince at RSE,we do not have the same aftermat problems to deal with.
I never thought much about JZ while I was in the school for me she was just the body,was not that happy to see her act the way she did sometime but brushed it aside as irrelevant to my Enlighttement.
I look at it this way about her,I would not trade my life for her's but will do anything to help expose her and her clownys for what they are
I am not realy worry about what my life would be if I would not have heard the name Ram.I love my life and look at it as a victory over her.
I am not saying that I do not have issue to deal with but anger against her is not one of them, it would be much more distrutive to me an would not affect her what so ever.What confort me a lot is knowing now that she is not going to be number one and is going to die like everyone of us.
That my two cent worth
Good night
Oldone
tree
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Unread post by tree »

Oldone-
My response was to the person who was having trouble navigating the question of "where would I be? had I not been in RSE".
I really do think working with a trusted professional that understands cults and how they work can be a very viable tool.

I am not angry at JZ per se. I actually do not think she can really help herself much in the vein that Elizabeth Claire Prophet,
or Jim Jones or Hitler could. Thier abberations can be found in the DSM iv.

All I can do is make decisions and changes for myself now that I have seen through the charade.

It has been my experience has been that now that I am out, I can really only help those who are THINKING about going into RSE,
and those who have come out.
I think EMF can also provide current members with some valid information should their own red flags start burning near their heels.
I mean, in hindsight, most posters mention "red flags" that they wish they would have heeded.
This forum provides other people's refelections about those and maybe some help to current schoolies who might have just witnessed
some bizarre action on the part of JZR and the staff and student body.
ordinarymind
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Unread post by ordinarymind »

Tree wrote: It has been my experience has been that now that I am out, I can really only help those who are THINKING about going into RSE,
and those who have come out.
I agree, Tree, that's my experience too. I've told many friends in the school about this site and only one person thought there might be some "truth" to it. The others either didn't want to take a look at the site because they didn't want to put this information in their "yellow brain". ...or they thought it must be a small group of people out to "get" JZ and the school . ..or, and this was common, "well, David McCarthy has his issues and he just couldn't do the work" . .. sorry David! I don't even know you but I'm sure the last response is no surprise to you . ...anyway, that's been my experience with telling people in RSE about this site .. .so mostly now I just say flat out "I'm grateful to be out". . ..and yes, I do understand their reactions . ..because, until I "got it" and "got out", I would have said exactly the same things about this site. So much for being the original thinkers we thought we were, huh!
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

Tree said, "I really do think working with a trusted professional that understands cults and how they work can be a very viable tool."

I agree. There are some good counselors out there, and while they may not specialize in cult dynamics, they can learn about that from the patient. Plus, they can also address the symptoms, which is what folks may need help with. I suspect that in our society, we tend toward stigmatizing people if they need "mental help". Even suggesting one could need help can sometimes be met with a slap. It's silly, because we are emotional, mental beings. Whole beings. If one part gets out of whack, it needs to be fixed. We wouldn't judge a person who need insulin for diabetes just because it's a physical illness. Emotional tune-ups can be good for the soul, I'd say.
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