Question From A Lurker

Whatchamacallit · Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:29 am

Readers,

Below is a copy of an email that was shared with me. I asked for permission from this lurker on EMF, to post the email so that she can read the responses to it. I told her it would be posted now, so she can see what ya?ll have to say.

Whatcha

Hello,

I found your message board and have a couple of questions I didn't find discussed.
One is an observation. That the members seem to have much in common with evangelical christians and other religious groups describing some sort of end of the world coming soon and rapture. Not restricted to christian based faiths. I'd also put the concept of the hashishins in there with the wine ceremonies.

Getting out of such groups is difficult, cognitive dissonance can make it uncomfortable to give up something that we have put significant time, energy or resources into as well as having peer pressure to remain. A web search on cognitive dissonance turned up some interesting information on this. It might be a big factor in how intelligent people continuer to see clothing on the emperor's naked body.

The second is more personal. I recently joined on dating web site and was contacted politely by a man. We emailed a bit, something came up about energy fields, spirituality is an area of interest for me, and decided to talk on the phone. We never met in person. While our conversations ranged over many subjects, he brought up some that were metaphysical that were intriguing yet somehow seemed off. He suggested some ramtha books and going to an introductory event. I didn't feel pushed, never bought a book, found some partial books online that were enough to make me more skeptical. Web searching brought up your site and other info on the misbehaviors of JZ etc. Without ever directly addressing these, we continued to chat at times.

My question relates to this aspect. This man, who on the phone at least, seems kind, is funny, intelligent and easy to talk to, seemed very interested in meeting until it seemed clear to him that I was not going to easily agree and accept some differences in our spiritual beliefs. Not in and of itself anything uncommon in online dating, but overall I've found people who are truly interested in meeting out of attraction can accept such differences. Since online dating sites have had significant issues with scams, false profiles from people in Nigeria who end up asking for money, it did occur to me that a variation on this might be for JZ to have some members either deliberately try to recruit people via a dating site, or manipulate them by suggesting that they go to such sites and then invite anyone they meet there to join.

When it became clear that we had a 'ditch' too wide to bridge, we agreed to respect each other's beliefs, wished each other well and went separate ways. We still drop each other a note if something funny comes up. I hope this man is truly a good person who is blinded by the deceptions rather than a deliberate recruiter.

Has there been any indication that JZ is using members to recruit in such ways?

I'm curious as to the response on both aspects, the evangelical sort and possible recruitment. This also reminds me of years ago when I worked in a downtown city, and the scientologists were out en masse on street corners hitting people up for personallity tests or what ever it was. Some nice and intelligent people getting suckered in by L. Ron Hubbard.

Signed,
Jane Doe Anonymous

Wakeup-Call · Unread post by **Wakeup-Call** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:48 am

My two cents...

1) Evangelical - that's a good observation. As an ex-evangelical and an ex-Ramster, I would agree with some similarities. The "rapture" of evangelical Christianity in RSE is really "surviving the Earth's changes." During the year before I left RSE, I became more aware that no one in RSE ever talked about "after the changes." Just survive the immediate catastrophe (whatever it may be) plus the next 2-10 years and then something would happen that would be equivalent to the 1000 years of peace of Earth with Jesus ruling. No specific plan, but over the years at RSE I think the worldview generally held is that the benevolent aliens would land and help us out (the friends of Ramtha...Ramtha is the mastermind of the strategy behind Earth's future and we are "his people" so we'd be cool with the landing parties.) And, of course, we'd finaly see Ramtha in his radiant body. Just like the Christians look forward to seeing Jesus.

Eek - creepy. But evangelical Christianity is JZ's spiritual heritage. So that makes sense.

2) People out recruiting for RSE deliberately... you know, I don't think so. I think the group rather prides itself that it is NOT consciously out winning recruits. JZ's teachers are pushed to do the major recruiting - I think because she can maintain control. There is subtle pressure, in my opinion, to live "the teachings" and give credit to Ramtha and JZ when good things happen. There was a season in school where we were yelled at a lot to not be embarrassed of our school and our teacher else Ramtha would be embarrassed of us during the light review. There was also a season and various repetitions of the teaching to not hook up with somebody in a relationship who was not committed to doing The Great Work. So my two cents - the guy you met was genuine but unless you found the Ramtha teachings appealing and were willing to engage them at some level, he could not in good conscience get involved with you without being taken off his path, his journey for this lifetime.

Eek - I creep myself out now sometimes when I go back to the RSE mindset and write from that viewpoint.

Whatchamacallit · Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:50 pm

Wakeup, I agree with all that you wrote. I do want to add something. When you read this, you might recall it. Or, perhaps you never experienced it. However, the message with regard to recruiting was conflictive.

To answer the question the Reader has about recruiting, I would say "yes", and here is why:

* Students were told to hold the teachings sacred, not to share them with anyone including family especially since we all hear the teachings based on our own perceptions ( a dirty rag ). If we shared the teachings with our impure perception of them, then we would taint the other person's brain with the impure-ness, thus negatively affecting their ablity to evolve. This was similar to how (as the story went) those involved in organized religions had impure teachings and thus, could only evolve so far, never making it past visible light, where they would hit the light, be stripped of their memories and emotional bodies, only to reincarnate with amnesia and start the cycle all over again until they found truth and were set free.

* I clearly recall several times at least, when Rambles told those in audience to "teach this to your family, to your children". To tell them that they should be there (in audience).

There were similar comments made on these themes. I have more to say on the evangelical part, but no time now.

tree · Unread post by **tree** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:00 pm

There was also a season and various repetitions of the teaching to not hook up with somebody in a relationship who was not committed to doing The Great Work. - the guy you met was genuine but unless you found the Ramtha teachings appealing and were willing to engage them at some level, he could not in good conscience get involved with you without being taken off his path, his journey for this lifetime.

this is pretty much it in a nutshell.

Many many times, we were taught to NOT have a relationship with someone OUTSIDE the school. The journey on the path of the "Great
Work" was hard enough, let alone living with someone who was "socially conscoius" (basically, beneath the RSE member because , remember, they have "sacred" knowledge. )
Even having a relationship at all was dissed many times. Honestly, while in RSE , I don't know how I bought into those several teachings
as JZ can never, ever be without a man. We will see what her current situation yields. She knows we post what her past is about,
and she knows we post she is drinking more now because she got dumped. I think she will drive herself over the brink, actually, because
what other choices does she have right now that do NOT make ANY of the teachings hypocritical?

At any rate, for the most part, Ramsters would not be searching on-line too seriously for dating. I think is would be just a passing, um,
fancy that they would engage if not in RSE. Maybe that occasional critical thinking thought gone awry. But then the belief system
that JZ has set up in the person kicks in, so I do not think a relationship with a Ramster would really work out, UNLESS you became
fully immersed in the teachings. And THEN, good luck with that relationship IN the teachings. Because, one is taught, change is good.
And then throw in a few wine ceremonies and watch jz play match maker or better yet, really scramble the lot and do another teaching
on "chaos is good" and watch the Ramsters wreak havoc in their lives.

I can personally attest to that last statement in particular.
Esp in this second year of recovery, my life in MUCH MUCH calmer, no dramatic incidents that " I created", no one "calling me on the telly
to " insert some kind of "runner" into my day, etc. I have washed my life clean of individuals in RSE. If my current friends and family
saw me entertaining ANY kind of interaction with these people, they would probably have me locked up.

I am sure I will have more to respond to in your letter Jane Doe as it sparked just a myriad of thoughts.

I am very pleased though, that a modicum of diligent internet research brought some leveling insight.
RSE and JZ Knight are pretty much on their way out.
This is what I am talking about in her trying , in this down, economic time, to get people to go to RSE via the internet.
It is going to backfire big time.
The truth will be seen.
And no one will look any further into those well glossed marketing maneuvers because they do the research.

Thank you for taking time to read out posts on EMF. And thank you for your e-mail.

Tree

tree · Unread post by **tree** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:13 pm

If we shared the teachings with our impure perception of them, then we would taint the other person's brain with the impure-ness, thus negatively affecting their ablity to evolve.

I clearly recall several times at least, when Rambles told those in audience to "teach this to your family, to your children". To tell them that they should be there (in audience).

Very true quotes of teachings while at RSE.

Thinking back during these times of diametrically opposed teachings:

We were always told that everything in changing, evolving. So, I think it that sense, anything that came out in contradiction to an earlier teaching was put under this umbrella of "everything is evolving, including the teachings."... WHICH I might add,
included Rambles quotes such as "I will do ANYTHING to get you to be God, including lie to you."
Now mind you, we TOTALLY believed this . You have to remember this. This is not a statement that can be disscected by an "outsider" as being totally ludicrous. If you are in the belief system, THAT is how you think and believe.
So, contradictory statements and teachings can be utterly acceptable by the group.

One week it is: store your 2 years worth of food in a secret spot no one knows about or has seen.
Next week: store your 10 years worth of food in an underground.
Next: store your 10 years worth of food, wine, ammo, scotch, in a 2 foot think wall UG and make sure none of the UPC codes can be
"seen" by whatever methods.
All the time saying: You are God. You can do anything.
to: You are not worthy of any of my teachings. Not ONE of you manifested or tried hard enough during this event.

Wakeup-Call · Unread post by **Wakeup-Call** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:42 am

Tree, excellent posts.

Really great explanation for people on how people entrenched in the RSE brainwashing deal with the cognitive dissonance of so many inconsistencies in the teachings. Yes, Ramtha the ultimate adapter. It's based on acceptance that Ramtha (like the concept of God) is the one entity totally out for my best interests and doesn't have anything to gain from me. So whatever I can't understand must be for my purposeful that I will eventually one day understand.

I agree with you that, like so many things, there have been conflicting messages about taking an evangelical approach. On the whole, I would say there is little in the way of reward for bringing in new recruits. Unlike in Christianity where if you "lead someone to Christ" your capital goes way up with everyone. I think there is more of a push to speak complimentary of the school itself, to defend the school and JZ. Best in class: Steve Klein with all his letters to the editor and his weekly email newsletter.

Whatchamacallit · Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:45 am

Yup, Tree is right about her posts. I heard the same things.

Also, there was an excuse ~ and I intentionally use the word "excuse" ~ given to the students to address the glaring discrepancies in the teachings, such as the examples just posted/given.

We were told that in the quantum realms, ALL things are potential. So, if Rambles describes varying scenarios of POTENTIAL, then WE get to choose which scenario will manifest.

Again, this is just another way to "blame the victim" and avoid any responsibility.

Let's ask, why did Rambles MANIFEST into "his" reality the choice of physically assaulting students ? swearing vulgar language in front of many children in audience, never mind the adults that cringed ? talking about people's private sex lives ? talking about all manner of private matters without respect or regard for those being addressed, or those who are captive victims in the audience lest they walk out...and some do...like Blue Body (kudos to you, BB) ?

I could go on.

Perhaps the million dollar........oh, heck......LOL......the billion dollar question is, "Why did Rambles manifest in "his" reality losing his best students ? The ones who faced the disturbing fact that they were being duped by a myriad of fraudulent claims, faced that ugly fact, coped through the distress of facing that ugly fact, and got OUT of there, only to have become more discriminating about one's OWN preferences instead of those being implanted into one's brain by a self-appointed, but unproven "God" ?

If one can appreciate the humor of this internal joke, perhaps in a way that we never thought about inititally, we are the radical few. We dared to question, we were true to ourselves in the bigger picture, and we dare to question and challenge the dictatorship even now...because morally (to say the least), it needs to be done.

I do N-O-T say this from an egotistical place. It's an honest observation. My family (and I'm sure I'm not the only one) went through all sorts of strain due to me being in RSE. We endured with the help of some band-aids ! The easy way "out" is to stay IN RSE. Ignoring the red flags that for whatever period of time, we did...ignore. But the water drips, drips, drips, and eventually, the ice cracks.

Wakeup-Call · Unread post by **Wakeup-Call** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:46 am

Also wanted to note that I thought this was a great question for reflection.

I would like to encourage other lurkers out there to feel free to send a question privately like this person did, for posting.

Whatchamacallit · Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:49 am

wakeup, that's a good idea.

The person that I called "Lurker" gave their full name, too. I say that so folks know that we're not just randomly posting willy nilly. We get "those" posts, but they get deleted. Or, challenged.