Lee Harris-Onaxis channel

Wonderful on the outside Treacherous on the inside....! Cults have millions of members around the world who also thought they were immune.
joe sz
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Lee Harris-Onaxis channel

Unread post by joe sz »

Lee Harris once was with Ramtha and later around 1992-94 started his own odd cult:
http://home.dejazzd.com/jszimhart/onaxis.htm

note this from Common Ground Aug 1995 article on Ramtha, Part 2:
"Lee Harris, a former student of RSE and a personal growth facilitator, began holding weekend therapy workshops in the Yelm area in the fall of 1991. Evidently displeased with the competition, J.Z.'s partner, J.O. Alt, informed Harris that he should discontinue his workshops. Harris refused. At the behest of J.Z., a chiropractor named Robert Provasoli signed up and attended one of Harris's workshops in order to find out what Harris was up to. J.O. Alt then summoned Harris to the Ranch for a meeting, at which Alt gave Harris an ultimatum: either cease leaching the workshops or leave the school. Alt's extensive knowledge of Harris' workshop content was so uncanny, Harris pressed Alt into admitting that the Ranch had employed Dr. Provasoli to attend a workshop as a spy.

Disgusted by these shocking and unsavory machinations, Harris wrote a letter to Alt in November of 1991 saying: "That you have issued me ... an ultimatum in regard to this work, I have been driven much deeper within my own being to look at my choices and the reality that is created in the making of them ... In this process, I have come to clearly understand the distortions that are born from the great insecurity that surrounds these teachings both from within and from without ... When 1 contemplate aligning myself with a collective un-even-ness that has been and is currently present in the manner in which I have been spied upon, inquisitioned, and dictated to, it does not bring, me greater joy ... My best wishes to you and J.Z.... Sincerely, Lee Harris." J.O. Alt has never responded to Harris's letter."
Lost in Space
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Unread post by Lost in Space »

Dear Joe:

I wonder if it is the same Lee Harris who is now partner to Story Waters, another channel?

This is the website where I've heard of Lee Harris -

http://www.limitlessness.com/

And, I actually like what Story Waters has to say, and might buy one of his books...but, don't worry, I've read lots of books, and not yet believed myself to have found "the answer".
joe sz
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Unread post by joe sz »

Lost,
No not the same "Lee".
Harris-Onaxis is in his 60s and was born in Alabama in 1948. No connection to Story.
btw, I listened to the channeled blurb on that site you mentioned. Dull stuff for me....
Due to the ponderous repetition of 'you are the god within you' and other patterns in channeled messages, I am beginning to be convinced that this is a brain malfunction of what some neurologists call the "god spot".

Trance channeling or automatic speaking/writing is most often accompanied by a form of dissociation that cuts out social and environmental reality and replaces it with subjective air space in the skull. The world of inner ideals and abstractions now become reality for the channeler. An easy step in that state is to imagine that one is one with God, therefore is God because all is One. This circular thinking actually creates the opposite intent---a closed system that surrounds the self---not oneness but seperateness via elitism and grandiosity. The channeler disintegrates his/her actual personality in social reality while "creating" a reality in mind stuff, thus creating a little itty bitty god--the one in their heads. Ramtha is one of those little itty bitty gods.

I just came back from Boston working with a young man that "channeled" himself into a mental hospital [he was released 3 days beforer I met with him], yet he is not clinically crazy---his connection with the "I AM" presence made him seem so as he became temporarily disconnected for months. He's still not "back" but he's doing much better. I've worked with many people in this condition and interviewed many others. A few went on to become cult leaders after finding supporters and an ability to function adequately in 2 worlds.
Lost in Space
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Unread post by Lost in Space »

Reading the blurb about Story Waters, he was a fan of Mafu. However, he appears to believe he is channeling himself. You can see him speaking on You Tube...as himself.
I have yet to join a coercive group of any sort...so, I am not worried about exploring...but, I see your point, it can be hazardous to delve too deeply into one's own "higher mind", at the expense of real life. You have to keep a grip on terra firma. A foot in both worlds is okay, as long as the one in this one does not leave the ground.

I hope that young man will be allright.
I can't resist, though, saying this:
I suffered in my youth from post traumatic stress disorder. Looking back, the worst trauma by far was psych ward. Sorry, I couldn't help saying that.
joe sz
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Harris-Onaxis in jail!

Unread post by joe sz »

Yesterday, Mar 20, in Clarksville GA, Habersham Co, Lee Harris-Onaxis had to appear in court to face felony charges of abusing group members and children in the group. One recent, brave ex-member, a middle aged lady [T] filed the charges and she had solid support from older ex-members as fact witnesses, etc.

Here is what T sent me today:
Onaxis was handcuffed and hauled off to jail. We was booked on felony charges of Aggravated Assault and Terroristic Acts, and misdemeanor Cruelty to Children.
Lee Harris as noted above was a Ramtha follower until he and his wife started their own cult of Onaxis.
http://home.dejazzd.com/jszimhart/onaxis.htm

When I get more details I will post.

Sometimes the justice wins out in these cases :-)
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David McCarthy
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Unread post by David McCarthy »

Thank you Joe..

This news inspires the hope that it is possible to call these clever monsters to account in a court of law.
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

Joe posted, "Sometimes the justice wins out in these cases."

YEAH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yet another ray of hope that someone else can/will follow SUIT.

pun intended


;-) :D
joe sz
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Unread post by joe sz »

this court session was to establish "probable cause" which was clearly done. Lee was taken away in handcuffs.

Lee reportedly appeared as a withered old man [he's 60 I believe, a year younger than me---so give me a break. I still can climb low mountains and I am not a
god
like he is :lol: ] who needed medical care, etc. Lee's witnesses including Suzanne Onaxis his partner reportedly "lied" at every turn under oath.
Once I get the transcripts, I may post some of the record.

The ex-members say they were able to see just how pathetic these two are since the charisma bubble popped for them.
They all feel relieved.

What happens next, I think, is arraignment and a trial date. So with bail he might be out of jail till that comes up, or the old pr#ck might pull a medical stunt and have his lawyers say he is "unfit" for trial. He did have a stroke over 2 years ago but he was also beating up on members and pulling their hair out last year.
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

Joe said, The ex-members say they were able to see just how pathetic these two are since the charisma bubble popped for them.
Yes, well I'd bet that many on here could say the same thing for how pathetic JZK appears, once one finally sees through the facade of the Powerful Rambles, and into the high maintenance, needy JZK and her pathology. If they ever see through it. It will be interesting to see how the next 5 - 10 years unfolds; she'll be in her early/mid 70's in another ten years. Doubt she'll be walking the catwalk atop the tank. Harris might appreciate some company.

You particularly saw the charisma bubble pop in C.U.T., when ECP deteriorated due to dementia. The irony is, how deeply seated the need to believe is, when both of those women can go for years, in a downward spiral, and some people just flat out refuse to look and see the obvious. The human psyche is fascinating and dumbfounding, at the same time. Ramsters watch their fellow students die of old age and disease, one after the other. Yet, some of them remain as students. I wonder how much of that is simply being acclimated and habituated to their environment to the point that they just don't even try to look outside of it anymore. It reminds me of prisoners who, upon release, fail at being rehabilitated, and get themselves tossed right back in the slammer because it's what they know. That's how I see RSE; a prison without walls, for one's mind.

Why wasn't Suzanne Onaxis taken away in handcuffs ?
tree
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Unread post by tree »

bwahahah! jz in her 70's atop the cat walk in the tank.
but since her genetics allow for her family to have long lives,
I am hoping her downfall will be emphazema.
Can you see her channeling Rambles with an oxygen tank strapped under the robes?

I think the older students will still believe that she will be the first Christ.
She will heal herself, walk on water, then ascend.
NOT.
tree
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Unread post by tree »

interesting to follow Joe.
thanks.
joe sz
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Unread post by joe sz »

Lee Harris did get out of jail on bond the next day. Seeing him in handcuffs was a major victory for the ex-members. The spell is completely broken.

as far as aging channelers, the Prophet children have posted images of Elizabeth lately---she looks very much like someone smiling in a nursing home, not at all the glamorous staged guru.

Old Helena Blavatsy ended in a perambulator in her last years, obese and most likely diabetic and with bad lungs from her chain-smoking habit.
http://www.williamjames.com/Folklore/Blavatsky.JPG
tree
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Unread post by tree »

if I were a former member of Blatvsky's bs
I would want to say to this pic.....
you effing ________________
you were the start of this whole charade!!
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

joe sz wrote:Old Helena Blavatsy ended in a perambulator in her last years, obese and most likely diabetic and with bad lungs from her chain-smoking habit.
http://www.williamjames.com/Folklore/Blavatsky.JPG
what's her mug doing on a william james' site ???

it's too late at night...i'll have to back that link up and check it out another time.
joe sz
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Unread post by joe sz »

good ? watcha.

that site, wiliamjames.com probably has the famous proto-psychologist turning in his grave.

It seems that the site is governed by Jeffrey Mishlove and others who ran the series Thinking Allowed.
http://www.thinkingallowed.com/
Mishlove is a kind of intellectual newagemystic who fits into the psi-promotion/transpersonal psychology camp. Nice guy but a real mushbrain in my opinion.
http://www.mishlove.com/
http://jeff.gaia.com/blog
"Jeff has taken a serious interest in karaoke ? and has even performed publicly, with his duet (and real estate) partner, Cat D?Angelo, on several occasions for various senior citizens homes and centers. In fact, Jeff and Cat have been joined several times by Jeff?s mother, Rose, who ? even at age 87 ? still loves to perform."

Here is the good William James site:
http://www.des.emory.edu/mfp/james.html
KT
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Breaking winds...more on onaxis

Unread post by KT »

Thanks Joe for all your work, help and support
in getting Lee Harris arrested.

I'll tell you, as a former member of this cult,
friday March 20th, the day Lee was arrested
on two felony counts, was a great day for
all the people that have been abused
by both Lee and Suzanne.

My many thanks as well to the former member
who had the courage to go to the DA's
office in Clarksville, GA and report the abuse
she suffered at the hands of two monsters.

That former member was often called the stupidest
of all members by Lee and Suzanne and so it
is the sweetest of justice that it would be
"the least of them" to finally put that bastard on
notice.

Lee often taught us "Ahimsa" which means "do no harm".
He also taught us to always tell the truth.

And while it was not a surprise that his three witnesses lied on
the stand saying they had never seen Lee beat
up members, it speaks well of the court, that with only
one person standing up to them and telling
the truth about the abuses she suffered,
the court charged Lee with three counts.

We all know that the three witnesses have been abused and
that day, telling the truth, if Lee got out,
would have cost them dearly, because they know
his wrath quite intimately.

So those of us who know, even for the folks
that purgered themselves, our hearts went out to them
knowing why they lied.

However, the case will now be handled by the DA's
office and he will follow the tracks laid by the plaintiff's
attorney who already established purgery by those three witnesses
and in all likelihood will offer them
forgiveness if they turn state's witness.

Which they may when faced with jail time themselves.

Here is a sampling of Lee's writing.
Too bad the master does not live by his own truths.
And too bad his current followers don't either.

KT

Lee Harris Onaxis:

I have spent over thirty years dealing with people.

In that thirty year period of time,
I have dealt with literally thousands of people.

I have dealt with the people of high social caliber,
People that each of you would know, should I call their names.

I have dealt with people who have had no money,
I have dealt with people who have lots of money.

They're all the same people.

Rich or poor,
Academically oriented or with no education at all,
We're all the same people.

We all live, and we all die.

If you can tell me of a situation in which even one person is not dying,
While they live, and if you can tell me of a situation in which
One person can be where they are not living, and dying, at the same time,
Then I will tell you,

Just wait,
We're all the same people,
Living and dying.

I have spent, in my earlier life, many days, after I practiced medicine,
Volunteering With Hospice,
and I spent many hours with Stephen and Andrea Levine,
and Ram Dass.

In those days,
the greatest gift, and the greatest return I got was to be sincerely available
to those dying patients,
Sincerely available to their every need,
Yet their needs were so small, because, at the bottom line,
quite frankly,
No one wanted to be alone, in the moment of their death.

And so, in those years, I literally wept, for many, many people,
and I wept with their families,
and that is something that a doctor never does.
And yet, in my depth, and in my resolution to be sensible and reasonable,
at all times,
I wept.

And so when I hear a man, like Antares, say that he does not believe
in death, and disease, and debt,
my heart goes out to a man like Antares,
because I know he has never wept,
and I know he never will really weep.

In all my years of practicing medicine,
and in all of my years of practicing somatic psychology,
we all have one thing in common,

We are born, and now I know that we will all die.

I have lived this entire lifetime in service to other people,
and in service to myself, at the same time.

Yesterday, in the evening, I was at Kristina's side, quit literally.

And let me tell you something about Kristina,
I have known Kristina for twenty years.
When I first met Kristina,
she was a teenager, with a small boy,
and now that small boy is all grown up, and has a child of his own.
That's how long I've known Kristina.
Longer than her husband has known her.

And although Kristina has worked with me a number of sessions,
she has never depended on me, except just to know that I am there.

Kristina is one of the most beautiful women on the planet,
and she is humble, and sincere, and even, in dealing with her man.
Although he strikes fear in her, she will not allow herself to be overcome by the fear.

If I were to take the time here, to tell you about many of the clients that I have had
in these thirty years, up to this moment, I would tell you debilitating stories,
and I would tell you remarkable stories,
both at the same time.

My dealings with the new age, and that includes all of you,
are the most profound dealings I have ever had,
because new agers do not have the background that I have,
and they all, and you all, are so innocent that, for the most part,
you've never had to look at life itself, down and dirty.

In my years of the practice of internal medicine,
I looked at things down and dirty.

When a paitent came to my office bleeding, from the gut, with blood
dripping out of his mouth and nose,
I saw down and dirty.

When my old patients would die, and their families would be
heartbroken and in distress,
I saw down and dirty.

And I will remind you that, at that time, I worked at two major nursing homes,
And had an office, and saw patients, and I was staffed at a major hospital,
all at the same time.

When I look, this morning, at Antares' letter to me,
it breaks my heart.

It is arrogant.
It is competitive.
But most of all, who I thought was there, is not.
And that breaks my heart.

The reason that I am deep, is because, in the practice of medicine,
and in the practice of psychology,
I had no option but to go for the bottom line, every time.

And in going for the bottom line, people are healed.

Or, they simply deny the bottom line, for a moment or two, and then they die.

Can you imagine the power in my simply wanting to know what is real,
at the bottom line?

That power has directed my life, for thirty years.

When I completely stopped practicing medicine,
I, like many other people,
went to see Ramtha, and I studied with Ramtha, for ten years.

That should tell you that I considered Ramtha to be the greatest teacher
on the planet.
And I will remind you that, prior to that time, I had studied with a Cherokee Indian shaman
for four years, and after that, a Japanese shaman, and after that, an African shaman,
and so I know the native ways.

As a matter of fact, a Maori shaman came to my house at Mountain Meadows Estate,
and he is a very famous Maori shaman indeed,
and he literally gave me his people,
in canoes, from across the skies.

In my study with Ramtha, I studied impeccability,
and I studied integrity,
both of which I had already made my own.

In my conclusion with Ramtha, I came upon Eli Anu Ram,
indeed John the Baptist.

To make a long story short,
I'm still here,
and Eli Anu Ram is still here,
and I came to know of
Prime Creator Source.

And as Eli Anu plugged all of my circuits back in,
I came to know who I am.

And that is of little import, to me,
and it should be of little import to you,
because, as I said,
we're all the same people.
We're born to die, and that's just how it is, in third dimension.

The lies, and the deceit, that I have experienced with new agers
is altogether distasteful to me, abhorrent to me,
and now all can plainly see what lies, and deceit, and hypocritical beings
like Isa and Yolanda, and their followers, create.

I once was the most charming man you have ever seen.

And Kyah will tell you that, and Kathy will tell you that, and Kristina will tell you that,
and I taught them many things,
and in the workshops that I did, I taught people again, and again,
to quite simply overcome their fear.

And in doing that, I blindfolded them, and took them, together, out in the woods,
and left them blindfolded, as all of their fear would come up,
and pass away.

And so now, when I look at this miasma in which everyone is afraid,
but doesn't know it,
I weep for you all,
without a single exception.

I have spent years of my life in steady focus.

What that means is that in times past, that my body and I
would literally sit, in one position, for five days in a row,
with very little food, and very little water,
and I would simply sit there, day and night, for five days at a time.

And I did that for many years.

And therefore, I know that Antares, writing to me today,
is not the writing of a shaman,
but the writing of a little boy, and an utter fool.

However,
Antares writing me this morning,
and in his letter, as you have seen,
he doesn't believe in death, and he doesn't believe in debt,
and he doesn't believe in disease,
and I of course, as I said,
spent thirty years of my life, in dealing with many deaths,
and in dealing with every disease in the book,
and with people who have debt.

I say to Antares,
My dear friend, you have made a complete fool out of yourself,
and we no longer have a place from which we can communicate,
or have dialog in any fashion whatsoever.

However,
I would like to thank Antares for many masterful works.
The publication of his journals, particularly the Orang Asli Tribe journals,
are glorious.

However, now I know that Antares is a philosopher,
and he has gotten philosophy, in the best way he can understand philosophy,
however, philosophy is just philosophy,
and every philosophy is meaningful, only until another philosophy emerges.

I am not philosophy, I am a real human being.

As a child, I was crippled for the first thirteen years of my life;
as an infant, I learned to walk, on crutches,
and my father, each time I fell,
would always tell me to get up,
and my father would never help me to get up,
he would just tell me to get up.

And therefore, I never felt crippled, although I really was.

And therefore, my compassion for every human being was developed
when I was just a small child,
because when I ever fell down, my father would tell me,
that although I walked on sticks, I did have two legs, and two feet,
and to get up,
and to help my mother,
and to help my grandmother,
and to help all old people that I would see,
and in those days,
I knew many, many, many old people,
all of whom were intelligent and charming.

So I did not have a bad life, I had a good one.

I know people.
I know the will that is required to continue to be people, at all.
And therefore, I do not judge any person, anywhere,
but I do have the capacity to always tell the truth,
and therein many people 'feel' judged by me,
but they are not,
for I understand people who are ignorant.

My own family is ignorant, and I understand them, and they cannot tolerate
that I understand them.

For many years, I tended my family, in every medical emergency that they ever had.
However, now they all have a new doctor,
because after all, I "went crazy", when I decided to give up medicine altogether,
and Eli Anu had plugged my circuits back in.

You think you know pain?
You do not.

When I practiced the last day of medicine,
I made a proclamation when I stopped practicing altogether,
and that proclamation was that I would find the core of all disease,
and therefore I would find the core of the disease process itself.

And I have found it.

And although it is impossible for you to know that what I am telling you here
Is the absolute truth,
I quite assure you, it is.

The reptilian contingents are the source of all of your pain.
The reptilian contingents are the source of all disease.

And, I will give it to Antares, that disease, and death, and debt
Are only played out within this dimensional context,
And within this quarantine, that you are all living in,
And me as well, I'm living in it too.

However, I am here now,
In third dimension,
And my body has been used up, by every single one of you;
And I will tell you how that is, because you don't know how it is:

You have all used me up, and you have had nothing to do with it at all.
You have all used me up, because I am smarter than any one of you,
And because I have lived so many experiences, in a very short time indeed,
And therefore, you've had no option but to use me up,
Because I am compassionate, and I can't not be.
Because I am smart, even with this stroke,
And therefore, I will always answer your questions.

That, now, must come to its conclusion.

You must live your own life...any way that you do that.
You must be responsible for yourselves...any way you do that.

When you lie, you are irresponsible.

When you deceive, you are irresponsible.

And in those lies, and in your deceit, you create time.

And in telling you this, I am giving you the key to time itself.

I was having a discussion with my two little girls, yesterday, about time,
and of course our little girls are only ten years old, and so therefore, they don't
know anything at all about time, much less, they do not know that time itself
is the fourth dimension.

And because time really is the fourth dimension, and none of you know how it works,
then that is your quarantine.

You quite simply cannot get out of time, no matter how hard you try.

And that's because sincere, real, and raw honesty is the only way that you will collapse time
altogether, and figure out the nomenclature of time itself,
otherwise, in your dishonesty, in your deceit, in your never meaning what you say,
and saying what you mean,

you then are locked in time, with no way to get out.

That is why I have always been honest.
Honest with you, honest with everything.

But as you can see, I am currently locked in time with you,
because I have listened to you, and because I have wanted to help you,
then I allowed your perception of time, and your ignorance of time,
to pull me back to you.

This time, I'm not coming back to you.

I have learned to despise ignorance,
and at the same time, I have learned not to despise the people who are ignorant,
for they do not know any better, and they never will,
but rather, quite simply, I despise ignorance.

And you think you know what ignorance is,
and I tell you,
you do not know what ignorance is.

'Ignorance' comes from a root word,
to 'ignore'.

And all of you are guilty, in the charge that you are ignorant,
because you ignore many things,
like paying bills,
and you ignore many things, quite simply, because you don't even know they exist.

And therein, I cannot fault you, in any way whatsoever.
However, my tenure with dealing with ignorance, and even time itself,
is concluded.

Let me tell you what I've enjoyed the most,
I've enjoyed watching Thomas and Marianne, now, live their new life.
I've enjoyed that very much.

I've enjoyed Advithaya and Helga connecting, in a fundamental way,
that goes beyond whether 'I'm pretty, or not', or 'whether I'm good-looking or not',
those two are now developing a solid friendship,
and
"the solid friendship"
is the single key to any relationship,
high or low,
and anywhere in between.

I have discussed principles with you.
I have discussed principles with you, that are eternal:

Impeccability.
Integrity.
Honor.
Always telling the Truth,
and
Sincerity.

My students of long-term will tell you that that is so.

I have not deserved this static, and the literal debilitating gossip
that I have had.

I gave my old parents, Isa and Yolanda, everything,
and when Yolanda turned on me, behind my back, and all of that
filthy, disgusting mess came back to me,
I knew then that my old parents had been completely consumed by the reptilian brain,
and I wept about that.

That was, in many ways, my final adieu to everybody,
when I realized that my old parents, my father, brilliant, technically brilliant,
Academically brilliant, when I realized that my father had been consumed,
I was very sad indeed, and I still am.

And when I realized that, after talking, talking, talking to my mother,
filling her in on things about me, keeping them at
Mountain Meadows Estate as our guests for a week,
and catering them, and hosting their needs, and their people's needs,
that for my mother to then, behind my back, and not in
The Garden at all, for her to disparage me, and to despise me,
Was the final straw, that broke this camel's back.

You don't know anything about a stroke, Antares, and you don't care.

I have gone from a man of such smoothness, and such delightful smoothness,
to a man that is reasonably, well, nothing,
nothing at all.

And that doesn't bother me, really.
However, what does bother me is all of the gossip that is about me,
that is always behind my back.

And the reason that that gossip has touched me at all,
is that when it does touch me,
I weep,
because I know I have lost you all.

And in all of my dealings, I reached inside of you, and spoke to your heart,
and to your soul,
and I reached inside of you, to pull you out.

And now, that simply is no longer possible.

Those of you who are out, so to speak, are happy.

Those of you who refuse to come out, will be ultimately sad and miserable.

There is nothing else I can do.

I have spoken to you honestly here, as always,
however, your hearts are not deep,
and your sensational ability to track the depth
cannot be located among you.

And therefore, I will simply say,
Prime Creator Source is real,
and therefore,
as you continue to track all that
Prime Creator Source
has told you,
at the same time
live your life
as free, and clear, as it is possible
for you to live it at all,

and know that
Love I you greatly indeed,

otherwise, it stands to reason, I would never have given you
the time of day.

However, I have not only given you "the time of day", I have given you
my life.

And I am, at this juncture, not happy about that,
because at the bottom line,
although many of you now have homes, that you did not have,
and you have relationships that you did not have,
still, Earl Hershey, my friend for over thirty years,
is nothing but a fool.

And I did not see him become a fool,
but he has become a fool.

And his lovely wife, of ten years, is in pain,
and The Garden that I built,
for the joy of building it, quite sincerely, and for each of you,
is in pain as well,
because the people there are insistent upon
bringing pain into that sealed unit.

And that is so unfortunate,
yet their addiction to pain cannot be overcome.

Suzanne and I have literally, together, traveled the entire planet.

I have sat at the feet of every guru who has been on this planet,
for thirty years.
I have sat at Muktananda's feet, I have sat at Rajneesh's feet,
I have sat at Ramtha's feet,
and on, and on, and on.

And that is why I have never allowed anyone to sit at my feet.

Not two thousand years ago,
and not today.

My wife has traveled throughout the world.
She has traveled throughout the world, as the oracle for
John the Baptist.
That doesn't mean anything to you,
but of course, to me, it means everything,
because my wife has stood by my side,
regardless of how angry I have gotten, about this entire situation,
and she has stood at my side, when I have wept, and wept, and wept,
that there is nothing that I can do.

You think you know Magdalena?
I tell you, you do not.

You think you know me, whatever my name is,
and I tell you,
you do not know me.

And therein,
I must conclude my relationship with you,
each and every one of you,
now.

If you'll live along the simplest of coordinates,
and always be honest,
you'll be fine.

And even if you don't, you'll be fine,
at the bottom line,
because no soul will be "left behind",
you are all tended.

I bid you my sincere, and honorable, and honest
Farewell,

and I have loved, literally loved, being able to be with you again,
for a short time,
and now that time is concluded.

+
Onaxis
KT
tree
Posts: 974
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 12:31 am

Unread post by tree »

wow

sooooo similar in so many ways to ramtha the unenlightened one.
direct quotes.
i smell a lawsuit jz :twisted:

also I am sure this gives jz
VERY articulate, manipulating lines for when she leaves such a letter
on her way to France
And therefore, my compassion for every human being was developed
when I was just a small child,
yeah..kinda like jz working in the cotton fields. uh..yeah.....right......
And therefore, I do not judge any person, anywhere,
but I do have the capacity to always tell the truth,
and therein many people 'feel' judged by me,
but they are not,
for I understand people who are ignorant.
EXACTLY what she would say.....
My own family is ignorant, and I understand them, and they cannot tolerate
that I understand them.
ditto
And although it is impossible for you to know that what I am telling you here
Is the absolute truth,
I quite assure you, it is.

The reptilian contingents are the source of all of your pain.
The reptilian contingents are the source of all disease.
so ramthaesque.....
And in those lies, and in your deceit, you create time.

And in telling you this, I am giving you the key to time itself.

our little girls are only ten years old, and so therefore, they don't
know anything at all about time, much less, they do not know that time itself
is the fourth dimension.

And because time really is the fourth dimension, and none of you know how it works,
then that is your quarantine. .....
And that's because sincere, real, and raw honesty is the only way that you will collapse time
altogether, and figure out the nomenclature of time itself,
otherwise, in your dishonesty, in your deceit, in your never meaning what you say,
and saying what you mean,

you then are locked in time, with no way to get out.

That is why I have always been honest.
Honest with you, honest with everything.
more convoluted, twisted bs
I have discussed principles with you, that are eternal:

Impeccability.
Integrity.
Honor.
Always telling the Truth,
and
Sincerity.

My students of long-term will tell you that that is so.

I have not deserved this static, and the literal debilitating gossip
that I have had.
waaaa waaaa waaaaa all the way home.....

Love I you greatly indeed,
this last one in particular makes me want to puke.
_________________________________

thank you for taking the time to post KT.
since I have not been at any ICSA conferences and have not had any cross cult conversations
with other former cult members,
maybe this will be a new way to converse with others in a similar boat.
tree
Posts: 974
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 12:31 am

Unread post by tree »

KT-
is there a former members website for this group?
User avatar
G2G
Posts: 487
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:09 am
Location: Planet Earth

Unread post by G2G »

Tree wrote:bwahahah! jz in her 70's atop the cat walk in the tank.
but since her genetics allow for her family to have long lives,
I am hoping her downfall will be emphazema.
Can you see her channeling Rambles with an oxygen tank strapped under the robes?

I think the older students will still believe that she will be the first Christ.
She will heal herself, walk on water, then ascend.
NOT.
Methinks the only way she'll walk on water is if she steps into her bulldog, "Mistook's" 'mistakes.'
8) 8) 8)
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972
Whatchamacallit
Posts: 880
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:17 pm
Location: Earth
Contact:

Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

KT posted a quote, "If you'll live along the simplest of coordinates,
and always be honest,
you'll be fine.

And even if you don't, you'll be fine,
at the bottom line,
because no soul will be "left behind",
you are all tended. "

LOL...yeah ? WHERE will they be tended ?

Maybe there's an empty cell nearby for Yours Truly !
KT
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:37 pm

JZ and Lee

Unread post by KT »

After reading the cult information
that Joe suggested and some books likes,
"Cults In Our Midst" , the really amazing
thing for me was that basically,
all cults are the same.

I guess mind control is mind control and
unfortunately it's simple and basic and
the same methods are used
to sell anything.

If you repeat a lie often enough,
you can create neural pathways,
and if you beat people and demean
them in the process,
they start to just believe the lies,
and wa la,
"Head On, apply
directly to the forehead"
it's all sales with a unhealthy
dose of theater.

There is no online place for
past members of this group
and now with it going to trial,
it would be advisable for
former members not to talk publicly,
at least about any specifics.

Any other discussion
I'm sure would be fine.

Thanks for all your input.
Here's to ethics over power!
KT
KT
joe sz
Posts: 1010
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:43 am
Location: Birdsboro, PA
Contact:

Unread post by joe sz »

Be careful not to anticipate that Lee will end up in jail over this. For now, for the court, the evidence shows that he must be tried for crimes. The presumption of inncence prevails until then, that is why witnesses must be cautious in public statements.

Based on what I know there is a good chance a court will find him liable because he is so lie-able. 8)
Whatchamacallit
Posts: 880
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:17 pm
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: JZ and Lee

Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

KT wrote:After reading the cult information
that Joe suggested and some books likes,
"Cults In Our Midst" , the really amazing
thing for me was that basically,
all cults are the same.

I guess mind control is mind control and
unfortunately it's simple and basic and
the same methods are used
to sell anything.
As I am going to post to Caterpillar, and to carry forward with the astute observations that you've made about how "basically, all cults and the same.", I suggest that the process of recovery, is also highly similar, as well.

My favorite book, Take Back Your Life by Lilich and Tobias, details the doubts, the thought processes, the emotions, behaviors and attitudes, that people have when they are in different "phases" of exiting a cult. It's really quite fascinating that we each leave due to different events that are the Final Straw for us. Yet, the phases we go through, are quite similar, though they vary on a continuum with regard to degree of time/intensity of each phase. Reading that book, written by former cult group members (not RSE), is like sitting down with the authors and having a cup of tea. It's so honest on a down-to-earth, real person level. As they write narratively about their own experiences, and relate that to the work helping others through the years, that they've done, the patterns emerge.

My point in saying that to you in this post, is that we are really all the same on many levels, as we heal, going through the phases of recovery...so YOU are not alone. When we start to entertain thoughts of leaving, we wonder if we're alone and feel guilt, etc. The group will encourage that guilt because after all, "doubt" is a dirty word.

Not really ! It's the beginning step to freedom and, taking back your life.
KT
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:37 pm

Freedom

Unread post by KT »

I know Joe.
I have no illusions about
the justice system.
I'm just glad that all the
former members that were
at the hearing that day finally
got to see lee and suzanne
for who they really are
and it is the former members freedom from
the fear these two generated for
so long, that is the sweetest thing,
indeed.

Now that's "A new location"!

Have to get to work.
Will respond to other posts
asap.
KT
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