Another cult leader's opinion of JZ

Wonderful on the outside Treacherous on the inside....! Cults have millions of members around the world who also thought they were immune.
Caterpillar
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Another cult leader's opinion of JZ

Unread post by Caterpillar »

http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Psych ... ssages.htm


The irony is Osho was not original?

There are also 'bladder' stories in RSE?

JZ could consider selling Depend pads $$$.
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David McCarthy
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Unread post by David McCarthy »

A great read Caterpillar,
Gave me a few "chuckles" ?DM
thank you..

Osho's observations are very scathing.... but very true,
interesting that his comments are pre 1990 RSE.

David
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....
Caterpillar
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Unread post by Caterpillar »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osho_(Bhag ... _Rajneesh)


Osho died on 19 January 1990, according to above wikipedia.

Copied from above:

"Legacy

While Osho's teachings met with strong rejection in his home country during his lifetime, there has been a sea change in Indian public opinion since Osho's death.[179] In 1991, an influential Indian newspaper counted Osho, along with figures such as Gautama Buddha and Mahatma Gandhi, among the ten people who had most changed India's destiny; in Osho's case, by "liberating the minds of future generations from the shackles of religiosity and conformism."[180] Osho has found more acclaim in his homeland since his death than he ever did while alive.[8] At a celebration in 2006, marking the 75th anniversary of Osho's birth, Indian singer Wasifuddin Dagar said that Osho's teachings are "more pertinent in the current milieu than they were ever before..."

"The Osho group runs stress management seminars for corporate clients such as IBM and BMW, with a reported (2000) revenue between $15 and $45 million annually in the U.S."

"Osho's ashram in Pune has become the Osho International Meditation Resort, one of India's main tourist attractions.[192] Describing itself as the Esalen of the East, it teaches a variety of spiritual techniques from a broad range of traditions and promotes itself as a spiritual oasis, a "sacred space" for discovering one's self and uniting the desires of body and mind in a beautiful resort environment.[9] According to press reports, it attracts some 200,000 people from all over the world each year;[178][183] prominent visitors have included politicians, media personalities and the Dalai Lama.[192] A negative result on an AIDS test is mandatory to enter the resort."



It is interesting that this "cult" (and others) is more successful after the death of its sociopathic leader. :shock:

Perhaps it is the marketing of magical thinking to humans that are searching for the meaning of life...
Kensho
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Unread post by Kensho »

Ah yes, the good old Bhagwan...

His-story and what he promoted to his followers regarding his level of enlightenment had a few other similarities to Judith.

He claimed to have spontaneously attained 'some level' of enlightenment while out in his garden one day; everything was golden and he 'saw' things more alive, blah, blah blah....

What he didn't mention, was that he liked to use datura or jimson weed. This is an alkaloid that is similar to belladonna. One of its effects is to turn the ground and objects a golden colour. Some Buddhists use it also at certain times; mostly to suspend the body's processes during long practices. That's how I came to learn about it; and the Bhagwan use of it. He was used as an example of how NOT to use it.

The drug effect of datura, will slow the production of urine (hello ;-) long arena wine ceremonies), and also slow gut function while only 'slightly' distorting the brain's ability to function...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datura_stramonium#Effects

Could it be that the Bhagwan, Judith, EST leaders and others all figured this out and used this type of drug to convince their followers that they had some sort of super-human control over their bladders/body functions?

Makes me laugh :lol: :lol:

Much love
Caterpillar
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Unread post by Caterpillar »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datura_stramonium

Copied from above, about Datura stramonium under Effects:


?The physiological effects are reported to be cycloplegia and mydriasis (extreme dilation of the pupil), flushed, warm and dry skin, dry mouth, urinary retention and ileus (slowing or stopping of intestinal movement), tachycardia, hypertension or hypotension, and choreoathetosis/jerky movements.?


Some students have mentioned about ?Ramtha?s? dilated pupils. JZ as Ramtha seems to be thirsty but have urinary retention in long wine ceremonies. JZ also said that when she channels Ramtha, she experiences tachycardia (rapid heart rate). She also "had" hypertension.

:shock: Could these be drug induced?

The next scientific study on JZ/Ramtha, apart from a brain scan could be "drug testing".



Unfortunately, the use of drugs is ancient and explains many of the wacky visions experienced by these ?psychics?.

http://www.psychedelic-library.org/inglis1.htm


From above:

"The Forbidden Game by Brian Inglis

1. Drugs and Shamanism"



Nothing lofty, all drug induced...
Kensho
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Unread post by Kensho »

QUOTE: 'Some students have mentioned about ?Ramtha?s? dilated pupils. JZ as Ramtha seems to be thirsty but have urinary retention in long wine ceremonies. JZ also said that when she channels Ramtha, she experiences tachycardia (rapid heart rate). She also "had" hypertension.

Could these be drug induced? '


There is always the possibility that there may have been a super-human control of the body but with respect to the Ramtha character, even casual observation soon reveals some contradictions. If one can control urinary output, or better yet...redirect urine to be utilized as energy, which is what the Ramtha character claims to have be doing, then surely there should be control over the puking, snotting and coughing mechanisms of the body as well. Yet this doesn't seem to hold true for the Ramtha character, who demonstrates ongoing issues with these body functions.

A more likely explanation of the Ramtha character's internal plumbing issues would be drug induced urinary dysfunction. It would also lend some explanation toward the fluctuations in weight and obvious water retention issues that seem to be ongoing for Judith's body. At times Judith as JZ (the persona of a corporation) appears on stage thin but within weeks, she appears to have gained 20+ lbs and appears quite bloated. This physical change has been addressed on stage by the character Ramtha and by JZ as well; the reason given was that this change bloating is a side effect of having Ramtha influence the body.

Does this mean that the 'god' does not have control over such side effects and in fact only demonstrates extraordinary control (perhaps) of one thing, and that thing is urinary? Pardon me while I contemplate the implications of the realization that we were following a 'god of pee'. :lol:

Okay...better now. Ahem.

Some other effects of drugs that inhibit the urinary system function, would be obvious signs & symptoms of water retention, and that would be physically evident as edema or bloat.

It is a harsh realization, but it would seem that there are fairly substantial indicators that datura-like drugs and possibly other drugs as well (cocaine comes to mind), were and are used by cult leaders.

Judith as Ramtha has stated at RSE that Prozac is not a drug,
Could she also reason that cocaine is not a drug when used for "enlightenment" ?

What a tragedy that so many have spent and will spend their time, money and effort listening to, trusting and even worshiping, potentially alcohol/drug intoxicated pseudo-gurus.

With respect to the Ramtha character's frequent description of the body as 'a bag of chemicals', it makes me wonder if a real truth lay behind the one that was implied...

Much love
ex
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Unread post by ex »

anybody here who remembers that oshos deciples flocked from oregon to rse and jzrs coments about him? was long before my time and i know only hersay. to my knowledge they were not allowed to weare theire malas with oshos picture on the ranch.
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David McCarthy
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Unread post by David McCarthy »

ex,
anybody here who remembers that oshos deciples flocked from oregon to rse and jzrs coments about him?
Yes, I remember, they were a close knit group, refugees from the collapsed Osho cult in Oregon.
just like abusive relationships, it is often that case that cult victims are drawn into another abusive environment.
I am a case in point...! DLM Guru Maharaji to RSE.

Dear unbound,

Thank you for posting your excellent research regarding drug use by cult leaders, this is all very alarming.
I was introduced to MDMA "ecstasy" by several 'Elite RSE "Group 12 students' around 1999,
they insisted it was the "White powder Gold" that David Hudson had sold and promised everyone at RSE...!

David Hudson was a guest speaker at RSE, he claimed was of the Holy bloodline of Jesus".... :-?
He is a con man and thief, still selling his snake oil on the internet.

Hudson's Presentations
http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/pre ... resent.htm

Doing some research about Osho and his cult I came across this...
Rajneesh used prescription drugs, mainly Valium (diazepam), as an analgesic for his aches and pains and to counter the symptoms of dysautonomia (dysfunction of the autonomic nervous system). At his peak usage, Rajneesh took the maximum recommended dose of 60 milligrams per day, a dose so high that it is usually only prescribed for the long term care of the mentally ill. Patients who take Valium regularly build up a resistance to the drug over time, and higher and higher doses are needed to maintain its stress relieving, hypnotic effects. Rajneesh also inhaled nitrous oxide (N2O) mixed with pure oxygen, which he claimed increased his creativity. The nitrous oxide probably did relieve the sensation of severe exhaustion and suffocation patients with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome often feel, but it did nothing for the quality of his judgment. Naive about the power of drugs, and overconfident of his ability to fight off their negative effects, Rajneesh succumbed to addiction. [See Osho in the Dental Chair and The Dangers of Nitrous Oxide.]
A number of disciples have claimed that Rajneesh was so intoxicated at his Oregon ranch in the 1980s that he sometimes urinated in the halls of his own home, just as heroin addicts and common drunks often do. I believe this to be true, as the last time I saw Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh he was inebriated to the point of becoming physically ugly. He had the same washed-out look and foolish behavior I had witnessed in drug addicts while working at a methadone clinic in the United States. Rajneesh had miraculous mental power, but he was an ordinary human being physically and he could not tolerate the devastating effects of large doses of tranquilizers.
On top of Rajneesh's physical illness, his massive intake of Valium caused paranoia and greatly reduced reasoning skills. Valium addicts often think the CIA or some other unseen villains are plotting against them, so it is not surprising that he imagined that he was poisoned by the United States Government. His reasoning powers became so damaged that Rajneesh actually considered moving to Russia to combine his totalitarian form of spirituality with Russian communism, an idea no sane man could possibly entertain. Rajneesh publicly called for the assassination of Michael Gorbachev, because Gorbachev was moving Russia to Western style capitalism instead of Rajneesh's own brand of "spiritual communism." Historically, Valium has been the drug of choice for CFS sufferers as it masks the unnerving symptoms of dysautonomia and helps bring sleep. Rajneesh suffered from insomnia, another classic symptom of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.
"What you tell them is true, but what I tell them (useful lies) is good for them." - Bhagwan Rajneesh, Poona, India, 1975
Osho, Bhagwan Rajneesh, and the Lost Truth
http://home.att.net/~meditation/Osho.html

OrganizedWisdom Health - Human Powered Health Search
http://organizedwisdom.com/helpbar/inde ... _use.shtml

David.
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....
joe sz
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Unread post by joe sz »

Interesting stuff on rajneesh/osho.

There is still a huge market for Esalen-like workshops and that is basically what the Osho center in Pune, India offers now.

By the time I came across them, his books did not impress me. Back in the day, I exit counseled a number of his sannyasins successfully but some I found impossible to talk to as they were either very spaced out or very obnoxious. I recall reading "I Am the Gate", a series of his talks [published around 1978] in the early 1980s. He repeated some of the same hogwash that Helena Blavatsky wrote. Anyway, here's an interesting site by someone who knew him. btw, I am not endorsing this guy--Christopher Calder :roll: --or his ideas but I basically agree with his assessment of ra :oops: neesh.

http://home.att.net/~meditation/wrong-way.html
"Rajneesh's own words and life history prove that he had no great wisdom, and that he was subnormal in his understanding of science, mathematics, ethics, simple logic, and common sense. What Rajneesh did have was a tremendous power of presence and the gift of hypnotic oratory. He fooled himself into equating his own raw consciousness with intelligence and wisdom. Intelligence and consciousness are not the same thing, and those with the most consciousness are not necessarily the most honest and wise."

I have several good books about rajneesh but I still think the one that really tells the story is the Rajneesh Chronicles by W. McCormack
http://www.amazon.com/RAJNEESH-CHRONICL ... 698&sr=8-1
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G2G
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Unread post by G2G »

He actually called himself 'Bhagwan?'

Hey, Bhagwan. Akin to saying 'Oh God.' How these people marvel at themselves claiming to be 'gods' ought be a clue. :roll: :roll: :roll:
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972
Caterpillar
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White powder Gold

Unread post by Caterpillar »

David?DM, here is some channeled info about the "white powder gold".


http://www.lyghtforce.com/WhiteGold/00000012.htm


An excerpt, copied from above (by EKarels):


This is channelled information from Ramtha about the white powder. Accept it with whatever skepticism you wish to assign to it.

On February 18, 1996, in response to a direct question, Ramtha stated that the Isis White Powder had no discernable healing power, other than that of a placebo. Due to the great power of the mind to effect healing, you cannot discount the placebo effects. However, the healing comes from the mind; not from Isis.

Earlier, Hudson had told me that his analysis of the Isis White Powder showed that it was comprised of 98 percent dirt. Because most people do not digest dirt too well, some people may experience stomach cramps after taking Isis. Thus, when you take Isis, you have a race in your body between the placebo healing effects and stomach cramps. You can judge for yourself which wins the race in your own body.


Ramtha continued to state that the "real" white powder was not yet available and that we (his audience) should wait for it. It would be available "soon."

During November 1995, Ramtha stated that Hudson had the "real" thing and that we should wait for him to get his production going before taking any white powder for healing purposes. We should avoid taking substitute materials because they are not what they claim to be. He commented that Hudson had been "chosen" to rediscover this material and had been receiving "divine guidance" for the last 14 years of his quest, without Hudson's knowledge.

Apparently, this means that Hudson has been receiving flashes of inspiration from time-to-time in his quest for the white powder. When I asked Hudson about this, he shrugged it off as so much "xxx." I took his comment to mean that Hudson was not a strong believer in channelling. And, he hasn't confirmed that he has received flashes of inspiration.


The observer is left with two options:

1) Hudson's work is a legitimate great discovery of the first order and it will just be a matter of time before his work is confirmed by established
scientists.

2) Hudson is a fraud and we are all wasting our time and effort trying to confirm his discoveries.

Now isn't it reassuring that a great channelled being makes an unsolicited comment that the first option is valid and that the second option is invalid and that established scientists should redouble their efforts to confirm Hudson's work?


:roll:
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David McCarthy
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Unread post by David McCarthy »

Thanks for that Caterpillar,

I think it is very obvious "even to the most ardent Ramtha devotee", that David Hudson was and is, an utter fraud and con man.
The question that remains unanswered for me is...
How much of a kickback $$$$...! did Judith receive from this thief?
David Hudson was an "honored" guest speaker at RSE, who openly solicited "funding" from "Ramtha's" stage?
I find it very sad and disturbing that the person who introduced David Hudson to Judith was my friend Ugi Shimono,
Ugi never received his "White powder Gold" either...
he died of a heart attack in the RSE arena :shock:

But the good news is that apparently..
Ugi was greeted on the other-side by "Ramtha" riding "Shamearadin"....
and offered the opportunity to return to Earth or continue his RSE training in the 23rd Universe....:sad:

David.
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....
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Robair
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Hello guys

Unread post by Robair »

Hello guys

This is funny I just asked my wife if she remembered the with Powder,she reminded me that we had invested a Thousand dollards in this adventure,witch I had completely forgotten,hey well you know what they say about memory it is the second thing to go.

Hey Caterpillar thank you.
Oldone
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ex
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Unread post by ex »

[[quote]quote]"even to the most ardent Ramtha devotee", [/quote] sorry dead wrong.just a view month ago i argued with one of them that all the scams jzr sugested dident reflect much wisdom. i listed all the scams i knew of and started with the white powder. the devote then told me that a resent guest speaker mentioned how broke poor david hudson is and how badly he got treated from the autoreties. so despite he cheated some he still recieved sympasies. not even close to wake up. its still more comfy in lalaramthaland.[/quote]
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David McCarthy
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Unread post by David McCarthy »

ex,

Yes, on reflection...I think you are correct.
As Judith's RSE soup slowly heats up.... few will acknowledge the dead frogs floating around them........
:sad:

David.
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....
Caterpillar
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The white powder story continues

Unread post by Caterpillar »

Hello David, Oldone and Ex

I think believers in Ramtha still believe in David Hudson?s dirt!

In July, 2003, ?Sir? Laurence Gardner, an author was asked about David Hudson?s dirt by Beyond the Ordinary Internet Radio (by RSE students). JZ is a fan of Laurence and his books. This was the last question in the interview (from 58.19). Listen for free here (about 2 minutes):

http://www.beyondtheordinary.net/laurencegardner.shtml


When talking about David Hudson?s substance, Laurence mentioned about its relationship to outer space and cosmic dust (stardust). He also referenced NASA?s Stardust spacecraft and aerogel which are facts as verified here:

http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html


This white powder gold is manufactured by various companies $$$ as referenced in Laurence?s website:

http://graal.co.uk/whitepowdergold.html

(Oldone, if you invested in those companies, you may be getting some return on investment soon, as seen in infrared?)



Stardust was featured in RSE newsletter April 2006:

http://www.ramtha.com/newsletter/Vol2/I ... er_01.html

Copied from above:

... Years before the mission reached the comet, Ramtha explained how our bodies are made of stardust, something scientists are now beginning to consider and investigate.

?This is what you don't know and haven't even arrived at in your contemplation. What is the greatest starship that ever was? Amino acids. They are the dust that make stars. Amino acids are stardust, electrically activated. Our cells are made of stardust, the living systems of the galactic Void." April 28, 2000.



It seems that Laurence Gardner and some people including JZ mix in facts (e.g. NASA?s Stardust mission) with some non-facts, yet to be scientifically determined (e.g. David Hudson?s powder). They managed to give ?believable? lectures to people that have not researched on the topics. This type of public speakers support each other.

I got sucked into RSE with the disinformation and stayed for so long buying more disinformation. One use of RSE was that I managed to scare off the Jehovah?s Witness doorknockers by telling them about Ramtha and trying to convert them to Hamsters.

In Feb 2003, JZ/R was distracted by another controversial substance, Robert Barefoot?s Coral Calcium ?Supreme? and the list goes on? :sad:
Caterpillar
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Suggestion to Moderators

Unread post by Caterpillar »

Hello Moderators

I think we have gone off topic here.

If you get a chance, may I suggest moving the ?White Powder Gold? discussion from David?s initial comment to ?Scams and Ponzi Schemes? forum where Sea-11 water and Omega are located. They do make a good trio...

Thank you for moderating. :-)
Vanilla
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Re: Another cult leader?s opinion of JZ

Unread post by Vanilla »

OH MY GOD. That is so funny. Because I do know a girl, she is very into Ramtha and kind of a fanatic. I mean, a real fanatic. It's sad because we were friends, once,, anyways, she is all over OSHO too. She ordered all these books. I would love to email her this link and see what she says.

But alas, we are no longer friends.

OSHO is saying this woman is stealing from my books. OH MY GOD how funny is that?
Xylofone
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Re: Another cult leader?s opinion of JZ

Unread post by Xylofone »

Some people say it takes JZ 2 hours to get ready to channel despite her saying it takes a few minutes. What does she do for those two hours?

It's possible she uses a catheter for wine ceremonies and uses the extra time to have someone stick it in for her. Or she really isn't drinking as much as it looks like she is drinking.

I always thought it was bizarre the way she'd have blue body pour her wine for her, or some of the other people. why wouldnt Ramtha pour his own wine? because then we'd see how much gets put into the glass by seeing the bottle contents diminish... if someone else pours it people wont pay attention to how little they put in it, if they put anything in it at all!
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