a different perspective on rse/r and the questions i have

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iamgod17
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:47 pm

a different perspective on rse/r and the questions i have

Unread post by iamgod17 »

i thought i would offer a different perspective that maybe some of you could share with those 'current' rse students you are worried about........

i attended one retreat, took home study, LOVE RAMTHA and felt rse was a group of like minded people that i really wanted to be with. to me, this whole culture was my home.

my first retreat was MAGIC to me. i found two cards in the field, found MYSELF, and went home to an alien environment. i wanted to come back here as fast as i could to be home with what i considered 'my family'

but...that first retreat and my first experience with ramtha was far from what i had expected. he was drunk, spitting everywhere, cursing and i asked myself, what the hell i was doing here? what happened to that teacher i saw on those video tapes(older, yes..)? who was this person? someone who was sitting with us was just as taken aback by this behavior and asked father about it. father said that if we had issue with how ramtha was behaving, we had to look within ourselves because that is where the issue lied. not with what ramtha was doing...but with us and how we were perceiving it.

this confused me. i had been rather alcoholic myself and had given that all up with the birth of my now nearly 9 year old daughter(she was four then).

i understood a few things from this quite clearly. i was judging a situation as being horriffic when i was the same not so long ago. and so my uncomfortability level with this was HIGH. i wanted to run away! i mean, i was devasted by this. but really, i had to come to terms with drinking and allow it. I HAD TO ALLOW THIS and find nothing but myself within it. it wasnt BAD...it just was what it was.

i did learn from this.

but ---did i want to learn from a teacher like this? i dunno.........

that was left in the air.......for some time......

i continued to want to be in yelm to be in the school. i continued to listen to read to reflect.

everyone around me thought i was crazy. there was something wrong with me because i had somehow 'justified' that behavior for myself. but hey missed the point. there was really nothing wrong with someone drinking and cursing and spitting like this. i could chose to be there or not. but it did not make this wrong. even though it was not right for me....

so i continued....and i listened.........and i learned...........

more drunken moments........more things happening that made no sense in comparison to the teacher i knew.

why was it that FEAR became the focus of the teachings?? and it was not even manageable............because it changed so often that there was really nothing anyone could do about it because the minute they took care of something things shifted to make that no longer workable and now something else had to be done...........

omg

soon.......it was not enough to be here in yelm but now you had to have an underground by a certain date........and then that was put on hold and somehow things were going to stay ok for a time while we got ready..........then the comet............which, by the way, did not come from ramtha but from father..........so why is it that ramtha did not feel it was important enough to talk about until father 'found' the info????

ya

another thing.........those q & a's.....specifically the last two.......around mothers day.....no drinking...now that was UNUSUAL.......and actually rather refreshing.........but the teachings............OLD STUFF............and they smacked of abraham and esther and jerry hicks and vibration and radio dials to frequencies........and then i heard ramtha say 'oh heck'---------------------------

THAT was always ALL WAYS a jz thing...........

who the hell is this????

jz is a wise and wonderful teacher in her own right........but this was SUPPOSED TO BE RAMTHA

i remember ramtha quite clearly speaking to love, changes, and god......within everyone and everything. there was NEVER ANY FEAR in his teachings...only AWARENESS and the PREPAREDNESS.

the teachings of late are entirely FEAR FEAR FEAR

and NO ANSWER to any FEAR..........BECAUSE IT IS EVERCHANGING

i ask you.........if ramtha is here still, why does he not see ALL and so can guide us in the way he always has...through love NOT FEAR

I LOVE RAMTHA and i am one who will never negate what he has given me. BUT what we have now here with us....IS NOT our teacher.
WofthesunEofthemoon
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:33 am

Re: a different perspective on rse/r and the questions i hav

Unread post by WofthesunEofthemoon »

Hi, iamgod17 and any 'Ramsters' who may read this.

As it was touched on in iag's post, I would like to comment on this concept of 'allowing' as promoted at RSE. I seems to be used as a 'coverall' word for everything to be found in human nature, which I find very dangerous and misleading. To explain further: to recognise that another human being is deeply flawed, and to see a reflection of that in ourselves with compassion, is one thing. To regard all behaviour manifested by either the individual, or humnity in general, as something to 'allow', is another thing entirely. For, if that were the case, then all degrading/unsocial/cruel/inhumane/criminal types of behaviour would be 'allowable', from such as spitting in a public, or starting bar-brawls, to the likes of rape, murder and genocide. Some sorts of behaviour are merely inappropriate and not too serious; others may be much more unacceptable, or even damaging, and finally there are those behaviours that are more about the unspeakably ciminal - some of which could be described as expressions of pure evil. Should we tolerate and 'allow' these? Absolutely not.

In the case of "Ramtha" spitting, smoking and swearing, this behaviour probably comes under the categories of being both inappropriate and unacceptable. OK, it's no 'biggie', but spitting, smoking and swearing could be seen as unhygienic, damaging to health and unfit for the ears of little-ones who maybe in the arena. Not good, and also a bad example to children and vulnerable people who may adopt health-threatening 'habits', believing them to be the thing to do. My own opinion is that spitting, smoking and swearing are not, of themselves, terrible detriments to spiritual growth, but they may be signs, when taken to extremes, of a person 'letting themselves go', or 'losing a grip of themselves', or even of a disintegrating personality. Not such a good thing, at all.

W.E
Ockham
Posts: 803
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:15 am

Re: a different perspective on rse/r and the questions i hav

Unread post by Ockham »

I am moved by what you wrote Iamgod17. Thank you. Also, WofthesunEofthemoon, what a great reply. I think what you wrote is a very strong point that really bothers me about RSE, but I had not summarized it into words until now. I think that philosophy of, "allowing," leads to a corrupt amorality because nothing really matters and everything is what it is (sounds bit like quoting Popeye the Sailorman). That can lead to detachment because you don't need to be responsible - it doesn't matter what you think/feel nor does it matter for others. Why try to make the world a better place because you manifest your own bubble of reality.

~~

As far as, "Ramtha," not being in person what, "Ramtha," is on videos, CDs and books just points out that, "Ramtha," is just fake. The, "Ramtha," in the books and videos is a product of the people that created those media. That character is specifically engineered to make people buy more books or go to the events at the Ranch. Even the so-called white book, Ramtha, was originally ghost written. You need to find the old edition to see the attribution to Steven Weinberg. That isn't to say there is not good in the books and CDs, just that it is a product, not a god talking.

So what you get in person when you go to see JZ Knight at the ranch is way different than the engineered character you get in the media. There are rafts of TV producers, script writers and book editors that transform, "Ramtha," into a product that sells. They have a lot of experience and are skilled at what they do.

On the other hand, the stage, "Ramtha," is just JZ Knight on her own, non scripted. Knight was very good in the 1980s with her extemporaneous delivery when she was a young woman, and that's why her media company has done so well. Now that Knight's in her 60s, after having done decades of alcohol abuse, Prozac, Five Hour Energy Drink, Tobacco, junk food, Twinkies and who knows what other vices, she's losing some of her edge.

I think a good example is the 17-hour event of several months ago. RSE supposedly had technical problems and there were delays getting the event up on their web site for Internet streaming, I think the translation is that they were busy trying to edit out some of the f-you, nonsense and incoherent drivel that would be all to obvious on a little screen without the crowd magnetism to cover it up. Interestingly, the promised second half of the event has never been delivered to Internet streaming. Discussion board member Vanilla wrote about the event here and said the second half devolved into a drunken mess with JZ Knight going on for several hours about her vacation with JZ's friend Ladystar on a rented yacht, and how she was proud it was bigger than Oprah Winfrey's yacht. This isn't the kind of stuff for which one is going to be thrilled to have paid a couple hundred dollars to hear. It is all too obviously not enlightenment delivered by a 35,000 year old god.
Kensho
Posts: 693
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:52 pm

Re: a different perspective on rse/r and the questions i hav

Unread post by Kensho »

Hello Iamgod,

Never say never... ;-)

Reading your posts, especially with respect to finding yourself brings up a few questions. This is only intended as a means to help you work through some of what you may be addressing at this point. Many of us who have been through the RSE program have found ourselves needing to look critically at the discrepancies and then figure out how much of the 'self' became part of the RSE program. It is a tricky and difficult path at times and I wish you the easiest path possible.

Some of the words and phrases that you use are Ramtha-speak, so it may help to begin by looking at that. References to 'Allowing' are often used in the RSE program as are phrases like 'it isn't wrong or right' and 'the problem is within your self not in the behaviour of others'. These are designed to remove discernment/critical thinking and are quite effective in doing so.

Your questions addressed to the one you call father were responded to in a way which reinforces the RSE mind control/training program. That is his job...to re-enforce the program of RSE. Had you asked someone who is not a member of RSE, much less a member of the staff (with a personal interest in the operation of RSE), it is likely that your objection would have been supported rather than diffused or blamed on a faulty thought process coming from your side.

Similarly, these words are not commonly used in the public forum; but are from the mouth of the character called Ramtha: horriffic, uncomfortability, everchanging. Adopting them along with common phrases used at RSE by followers and staff as part of your own manner of expression seems to indicate that the RSE hook has been set. Extracting it is not easy for it is designed to go in slick and painlessly; yet the barbs dig in when one tries to pull it out. I for one found RSE phrases and thought patterns coming up spontaneously for about a year after I left RSE...even had some of my friends around home repeating "So be it", because it had become part of my vocabulary.

It is interesting that you caught the "Oh my heck" (JZ's phrase), coming from the Ramtha character but if you look closely this sort of slip happens fairly frequently.
Both JZ and the Ramtha characters mispronounce the same words: labyrinth is pronounced labernith and both use the same created words and phrases like 'epervessent' and 'the obvious unobvious'. That observation may help in recognizing that both JZ and Ramtha are nothing more than characters created by and belonging to Judith Hampton Knight.
It is also worth knowing that Judith has admitted in court that she did create the Ramtha character; for that is the only way that she could legally place a trademark on the name. She owns 'Ramtha' as her creation as well as all that it represents and continues to defend that right in law suits brought against those who dare to use it without permission.

It is for sure a very difficult thing to realize that one has been intentionally manipulated and lied to, but the sooner that one comes to that realization, the sooner one can regain the freedom of their mind. I truly wish you all the best.

With love, Kensho
"Don't let any person bring you so low as to hate them."
Booker T. Washington
iamgod17
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:47 pm

Re: a different perspective on rse/r and the questions i hav

Unread post by iamgod17 »

i appreciate all of you and what you have had to say. there are many things you have said i still ponder over and will continue to do so.

i have to admit that i am still finding many of the older teachings invaluable to me. i am not sure at times that i even really care 'who' they come from----be it ramtha jz or someone else. many of these teachings were beautiful to me and still are. i can not say whether this will ever change for me. i have read from many teachers over the years and have found some value in all of them. i feel as if life is a journey of discovery and that all that we do come across has its place. what ramtha and/or jz has given is not always theirs alone but can be found often in other texts maybe worded in different ways and means. many bring the same message and in some ways, i find it not only interesting but even more solidifying for me.

THE WHITE BOOK.......hmm. this book to me was profound upon my first reading and then sort of lame through many re readings. i actually found much more in 'the history of humanity' books one and two and then some of the other books written. it remains to be seen what i feel as i re read the books again but re read them i will. there are things i have gotten from them that have indeed brought clarity to me about myself on many levels.

one of the greatest disciplines i have gotten and utilized from the school is really focus work. now i dont need a candle or anything particular to focus on but that focus work has effectively enabled me to 'stop' in the middle of a pretty programmed state(i use reacting to my children fighting as a good example for me because i always REACTED instead of stopping myself and re calculating things to see if there was a better way to handle some of the squabbles). amazingly enough, the more time i spent clearing my mind n focusing, the more 'power' i had to STOP reacting in my usual programming. i found this wonderful, insightful and very helpful. it goes a long way into breaking old habits that only served to create misery and unhappiness for myself.


rse and the experiences there that i have read about can be quite horrific and i am grateful too to have been able to read about them and am thankful you guys have had enough courage and foresight to share them. THANK YOU!

i am not sure about rse ramtha jz and the rest but i continue to question and wonder about it all. i no longer feel i need the school to assist me in my own process of finding me but i am not yet saying that i wont participate again. i will say i no longer am worried about becoming entrapped within it. but i guess in other ways i was never really worried about that. i have always been my own person making my own choices.

i suppose i just 'buy into it' a bit less now......
Another Dimension60
Posts: 291
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:28 pm

Re: a different perspective on rse/r and the questions i hav

Unread post by Another Dimension60 »

iam - what you call/utilize as "focus" is called "mindfulness". Kensho can certainly 'teach'/talk/share re the source/reality/application of such.
Aside from the idea of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater - i.e. that we each learned/gained from our experiences in jzland -- I'm reminded of Victor Frankl - "Man's Search for Meaning" - in which he describes a most profound and deep understanding of Life at it's Essence which he came to understand while a prisoner in a Nazi concentration camp. Never once did he promote that Nazi concentration camps were the recommended forum for learning life's meaning.

As Kensho and others have indicated - it's a challenging journey out of the muck and mire of jzland -- Blessings to you as you so journey....

(ps another mispronounced word - which I didn't realize 'til I found the source of the info - is hertzian - jz pronounce hertizan....)
Indigo
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:58 am

Re: a different perspective on rse/r and the questions i hav

Unread post by Indigo »

Good morning:

In reading this thread, I wanted to share my experience years after leaving RSE when I took time and trained in Raja yoga, wanting to become a yoga teacher and know more about the traditional path, not the Westernized cookie cutter path. I was quite shocked the first morning we rose at 4am as a group and practiced the eight limbs of this traditional, ancient path. One limb of which was focus work with a candle...yikes, shades of RSE. (I was at RSE for the first focus work with candles and clearly remember it.) I have posted the basics of Raja yoga, which you can research for yourself to see how both Mindfulness meditation in the Buddhist tradition, and the Eight Limbs in the yogic tradition were taken by JZ/Ramtha and utilized, albeit in a twisted manner. Mindfulness meditation is also a very beautiful, gentle, loving practice.

Eight limbs of Ashtanga Yoga

The eight limbs of Ashtanga Yoga are:
Yama – code of conduct, self-restraint
Niyama – religious observances, commitments to practice, such as study and devotion
Āsana – integration of mind and body through physical activity
Pranayama – regulation of breath leading to integration of mind and body
Pratyahara – abstraction of the senses, withdrawal of the senses of perception from their objects
Dharana – concentration, one-pointedness of mind
Dhyana – meditation (quiet activity that leads to samadhi)
Samādhi – the quiet state of blissful awareness, superconscious(?) state. Attained when yogi constantly sees Paramatma in his (jivaatma) heart.

Never, were we abused, in any manner whatsoever during this training .Rather, it was a non dogmatic, gentle, kind and supportive environment the 30 days I lived at the center to complete the training.

I, too, still have some very touching memories of the early days at RSE, and even before RSE began. I clearly recall at Assay I, I believe it was, Ram telling us a story as we all tried to fall asleep on the arena dirt floor after a long, hard day. (Boy, I don't miss sleeping on that dirt floor and the resultant respiratory issues many of us had. We all said we were "transmutating" to justify the coughs and allergies we had for weeks, post retreats and sleeping there.) He spoke of Shambala. Anyone remember that? It moved me to tears it was so beautiful. However, upon seeing and reviewing the stories here for the past few months (I left Yelm over 15 years ago, and truly hadn't thought much about RSE at all until the Japanese earthquake and all the recent weather changes and natural disasters, then this little voice inside, went, hmmmm, let me check out the RSE website to see what Ram is saying, just for fun, and then I found EMF.) I remain speechless at what I have seen on videos posted of a drunken, verbally abusive, unfocused JZ/Ram and have come to realize if, and big if, there ever was a Ramtha he is long gone, imo.

My heart goes out to you and everyone pondering the situation they are currently in at Yelm and struggling with a decision to stay or go. It takes so much to leave your life and family, settle into Yelm, make friends, do all the requires and extra events, buy bulk food, prepare for the DTC, etc. etc., that to actually think of undoing all that and leaving it is a big, frightening process. Just know, that if you choose to make that decision, you can do it. Reading EMF now and seeing the current conditions at RSE makes me so terribly grateful I did leave, and for all the wonderful, beautiful. bright years I have had, far away from all the fear, poverty, sadness, unreasonable demands.

There is a beautiful, exciting world waiting for you to rejoin it, have adventures and frolic in joy.

I hope looking at other, more gentle disciplines/options helps you sort things out. A wise friend, years ago, said to me "just choose a path and stay on it, but make it an established path, not a fringe path." I think that very wise, at least for me after my 7 years at RSE.

Best wishes, and happy Independence Day!!!

Indigo
iamgod17
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:47 pm

Re: a different perspective on rse/r and the questions i hav

Unread post by iamgod17 »

many paths, many travelers

loved your post indigo and thank you

i still have so many questions.

i think it is absolutely wonderful you found something that resonates with you.

i dont think any path is there for everyone

again, i feel that path lies only within self

maybe some need this rse path

maybe others feel trapped within in and only view as a detriment

anything that does not feel right should be left behind

but by the same token all paths should be respected and allowed

again, i am not the same person and have my doubts but i bless them and would not have them be it not for my own experience
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