Wisewoman posted....

[Kensho]

moderator: The following posts have been moved from other threads as this is the most appropriate forum within which to continue these conversations. Thank you to all who post for staying on topic in other threads.


Page 1 of 1
response to wisewoman - part 1

Another Dimension60 posted

Wisewoman ' Thank you for sharing. Part of me wants to apologize for the overt cynicism and sarcasm with which your posts have been responded. Another part wonders what your motivation is here when the parameters of purpose are clearly stated. Perhaps you sincerely believe that readers and posters here lack some significant information that you can share with us. Perhaps, if it's true, and you are the spouse of paid staff, then well perhaps you are 'trolling' for jz. Nevertheless, this one time, in case you're not just trolling, I will respond with facts and perspectives I have. (I've put this post under chit chat to respond to the multiplicity of your posts in one)
Water. I'd bet the farm, if I owned one, that those posting and reading here do value water ' probably more than the average person. The value of water is not actually the issue nor the cause of the responses here to jz's NVN ad or behaviors regarding the city of yelm and the development bordering on her property. Nor do I believe that protection of water and of other people is motivation behind these behaviors. Having one's minions in the dept of ecology change the water rights for yelm (lower), costing the city of Yelm thousands and thousands of dollars and staff time, facilitating the bankruptcy of two people, scaring people, cutting and pasting from a 180 page report and taking a single line from it and expanding on it ' these are not behaviors or reflect characteristics of someone doing 'the Great Work', and are consistent with past behaviors. In your posts you've referred to qualities of love and compassion and integrity and healing. ' '. In this world of corrupt politicians and govts and corporations, Yelm is blessed to have a few decent honest loving compassionate peace loving people with integrity doing their honest best to serve their families and community. '. Per your report, I bet you are smart enough to come up with no less than a dozen different approaches to the city of Yelm re concerns for the water of its citizens ' each plan of which would reflect love and peace and compassion and integrity. The fact that JZ and Steve Klein continue to use the same tactics utilized in RSE ' of division, of mis-information based on valid information, of engendering fear, of attack, do not, to me, reflect qualities or behaviors I admire or want to emulate. Cooperation, sharing, compassion, discussion with love and integrity ' these are the qualities I'd consider reflective of concern for a community and its natural resources. Peace and harmony and balance are not brought about by attack and accusations and disruption and lies.
Jeffry Knight sincerely believed what ramtha told him ' that he would be healed. He was also promised health care by jz. She refused to keep her promise. He went to tell her that if she didn't help him as promised he would take her to court. She asked him to come back to her. He refused.
Where is the love and compassion and integrity and healing for a man who stood by your side and facilitated the growth of your career.' Jeffry Knight could not afford health care. To dare blame him for his death or his lack of medical care is ' to me ' heartless, reflective of the rhetoric you've absorbed, and unnecessarily hurtful.
Speaking of love and compassion and healing and integrity ' if you had a few million dollars and 30 years of studying healing with the greatest master who ever lived, and your friend and loyal employee of those 30 years was needing surgery ' would you allow her to go to outpatient surgery for a devastatingly major operation' Would you mock her in front of the people she's known and served for decades' Do you find such behavior admirable' Is this the kind of behavior reflective of 'the Great Work''
Every day thousands of people are being healed through a diversity of 'procedures'. For some it's prayer. For some it's ritual/with meaning. For some it's dancing or singing. For some it's simply seeing/knowing. Etc. Healing without medicine is factual, universal, throughout time and culture and tradition. Have healings occurred for and with people who have attended ramtha events' Of course. So too have healings occurred for and with the people in the churches down the road, and probably even the Buddhist Temple across the street. Have unnecessary deaths occurred for/with people involved with ramtha' Yes. As well as in the churches down the street and throughout the world --- it's just that there are more unnecessary deaths that I've seen/know about with those involved with ramtha than in the churches down the street.
Most interesting is that the Ramtha of 1984 would have said to you/the child who healed ' Master, always give credit to God first. --- In fact, OldOne, if you're listening to the Hawaii video, you've heard Ramtha say that. So if it was the child who healed ' then I'd have to say, humans are capable of manipulating everything seen and unseen ' powers do exist. As do OBEs. Sidhis. Cards are found. Even our govt.'s employees can do remote viewing. So. What is important to me, is, - is there Love, acknowledgment of the Divine, and the recognition that there is only One Presence and One Power in the universe, and neither you nor I are It. We can become/allow/surrender to Oneness with It. If the child healed, he is a good magician. He has a future. If God/the Divine/the Union of intent healed. Blessings.
Whatever is truth or true that has been taught at ramtha events has been cut and pasted from books that discuss such truths. Similar to the cut and pasting done by Steve Klein/JZ Inc et al regarding the water supply in Yelm.
We all have learned through our experience with ramtha. each in our own way. We who post here, and many who read and don't post here, also have been able to see that the environment ' physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually is abusive. Apparently you disagree. 'so be it'.(Taylor Caldwell, Great Lion of God, p.527, 1970)


*********

Sat May 30, 2009 11:07 pm
David McCarthy posted

Part of me wants to apologize for the overt cynicism and sarcasm with which your posts have been responded.

Perhaps I missed a post here AD, can you direct the moderators to what you are referring to?

Jeffry Knight could not afford health care. To dare blame him for his death or his lack of medical care is ? to me ? heartless, reflective of the rhetoric you?ve absorbed, and unnecessarily hurtful.

This is sadly very true.

Wisewomen,
Do you remember David York?
Do you remember him limping in agony in the name field and tank? his feet were covered with lesions.
Shortly before David died of Aids, I asked him..
Why on Earth didn't you ask "Ramtha" to heal you?
he said... I did, I got down on my knees....and begged,
I told "Ramtha"...
I know you can heal me, Please heal me..!
"Ramtha" told me..I was not ready...

David was buried with his cards.
Judith sent some flowers.

********

Wisewomen,
You have been a "student" of RSE for many many years,
So on this basis...I sincerely ask you...
What of the following disciplines / remarkable abilities can you or "Doctor Greg" demonstrate
unquestionably the claims made by RSE Inc?.
For instance...

Introduction to RSE 2004.
What You Will Learn..
What a student can expect from attending a Beginning Retreat:
To learn the science of manifestation by "properly" using the brain.
The various disciplines teach you focus and how to access the "magical" parts of your brain.
To learn to heal and rejuvenate your body through an ancient ritual.
This discipline has healed every conceivable disease and can extend your life beyond your genetic expectancy.

Manifesting Something Out of Nothing
Discipline of Blue Body Healing
Ability to Physically Heal Yourself and Others
In this school you are given knowledge that is found nowhere else in the world, literally.
The disciplines of the Great Work are designed in such a way that nothing is left to chance or belief..
Another great aspect of this school is that you are initiated into the philosophy through special disciplines designed by Ramtha that turn the philosophy into personal experience.
This allows the students to begin to experience their own personal truth, their own personal wisdom, and no longer rely on blind faith or someone elses word. The only requirement in the school is full participation. No one can fail this school; you can only quit.
You will receive knowledge on how to do miraculous things with your mind

RSE advertisements 2007........

What You Will Learn.
Manifesting something out of nothing
Healing with the Blue Body?
Twilight? - A visualization process during sleep
Students are initiated through special disciplines designed by Ramtha that turn the knowledge into personal experience.
This allows the students to begin to experience their own personal truth, their own personal wisdom, and no longer rely on belief, faith, or someone else's word. In this school you are given knowledge that is found nowhere else in the world.
The disciplines are designed in such a way that nothing is left to chance or belief.
They allow you to put to the test the statement that you create your own reality.

2001 Ramtha quote

focus on my eyes - when you are insecure and you are sick and you have forgotten to believe, all you have to do is focus on this face. This face is burned into your training because my consciousness is greater than any weakness you could possibly possess. And anyone who watches this is going to get those close-ups of me, and I am going to work wonders in the world.


RSE 2005
Become a remarkable life..
Where the incredible become the credible in just eight days of your life.Quote:
.

RSE 1996?Ramtha's School of Enlightenment, the American Gnostic School.
JZ Knight.

Ramtha?.
This is a school that will challenge your current beliefs and intellectual assumptions. You will work hard. You will grow. You will be transformed.

There has never been anyone in this school that has ever been harmed.

Quote:How many people in your family do you know? Maybe you wear glasses, maybe you can't hear very well. Maybe you have cancer, maybe you are plagued. You know someone who's bruised.

Let us say, in less than seven years, you have the power of the healer, you have learned all of the knowledge of how to do its sacred knowledge, sacred science.

And then the more you do it, the more consistent you come in. And then one day you turn to your child, your mother, your father, to yourself, and you apply the knowledge; and behold, it happens.
That's what you're going to learn here.

I have students in this school that have healed themselves of terrible diseases, maladies. I have students who can see through blindfolds. I have students who can read your mind. I have students who can find what you hide.
I have students who leave their bodies. I have students that love the nature of God. So what I teach is a truth.
Now, wasn't Jesus born in a manger?
Sitting on the floor, it's a sign of humility. It's a sign of being back to nature, close to the earth. It is coming down from your humanistic point of view.

There is no need for alcohol or drugs in this school. There is no need for any outside stimulation. God has given everything to you to go within to find that.

Dear Wisewomen,
This is your opportunity to set the record and facts straight if you can.
I am willing to videotape any RSE "student" that can demonstrate the outrageous claims and advertisements made by RSE,
And post it on EMF.
Just drop me an Email me at: LARSE@ywave.com
Lets meet for tea at Mr Doug's

With kind regards,

David.

P.S.

Ramtha quote..1988

Become Christ.

"Do you think the most important thing in your life is your children?
They?re going to grow up and leave you. Do you think the most important
thing in your life one another It is a conspiracy
The most important
thing is you.

_________________
?But he has nothing on at all,? cried at last the whole people....

*******

Sun May 31, 2009 2:02 pm
wisewoman posted

Wisewoman is Here Again...Now
Let's be absolutely clear about this: I am not trolling here for anyone. I am not employed by JZ. I am not the spouse of any staff member or employee. I am not here to disturb anyone's point of view or change your minds. I just came in to find out if my friend, Ms. K....* moderator edit was feeling better about her life after leaving the School. She called me and we talked for two hours before I left for Colorado last May. I have been in Colorado, Arizona, and Canada before returning to Washington state, so I am out of the social loop with some of these issues and concerns.

I do have a mind of my own. I am not one to randomly take sides. I look at the issue, instead of the people supporting it or being against it. I would gladly be willing to stand alone on principle, even if ten million people stood on some other platform and all concurred about some topic. I am a thoughtful individual. I speak my mind on some subjects and on others I may choose to remain silent. It depends upon what kind of mood I am in at that moment. You could find laughter, debate, endless discussions with examples, and even the occasional "I don't know" coming from me. I do not do other people's dirty work, so your fear or concern that I might be trolling FOR anyone can be dismissed.

I did not expect such strong reactions to my posts, but I did anticipate that most people would be here to air their concerns about JZ, Ramtha, and RSE. I have not been living under a rock, but I have been away and thought I could get a sense of where everyone is now. I have... I am not offended, because I have no sides to take. I have my own experience and I stand upon the merit of my own Beingness. I suppose that I could demonstrate my mastery of the disciplines and that might be useful and purposeful to some if David were to post it here. The real question is how does each individual learn for themselves how to be the Master. That is not for me to decide...I am busy taking care of this for myself. I do like to discuss issues and share experiences however; and I doubt that this will change anytime soon.

Jeffrey made his choices and I am not condemning him for those choices, but they led to his death. JZ and Ramtha had the free will to decide to intervene and help him heal...or leave him to his own devices and follow his path to either healing or dying. I have worked with patients with HIV and AIDS and some have recovered while most have died. Either outcome was not my responsibility, it was and always will be the individual's responsibility. I have no reason for blame. I do see that his choices determined the outcome of death. That is not a hurtful position, it is simply an observation of the little part of my interactions and/or potential for interactions I had with Jeffrey. Hey, I even sat on Jeffrey's side of the courtroom during the trial and some of the people in our School were puzzled by my choice of where to sit. I didn't mind if I sat beside Jeffrey's key witnesses, lawyers, and supporters. I spoke with the lawyers that were next to me. I talked with Jeffrey and others there to help him. I am not the type of person who takes sides. I made my resources available at that time and Jeffrey chose not to pursue them. I am not the type of person who forces what I know on others; although I will boldly speak out about what I know to be true for me. I am not shy and I will not apologize for my stance on any topic of discussion. You will always know where I stand and why, even if it takes ten hours to fully explain the reasons for my position. If only I had the luxury of taking all that kind of time here. I don't. So sometimes you will find me here and other times I may be absent for awhile. I genuinely do care how former students, people in our community, and even those who would wish to destroy our School feel about these matters. I have spent time with Rev. Stowe and was the first student from RSE who ever visited his church, met with his congregation, and interacted with his Baptists who wanted to look me in the eye and see if the devil had possessed me. We all had a good time and left as friends agreeing to peacefully co-exist in our community. I am no stranger to diverse opinions and perspectives. I may not agree with many of you here, but I do respectfully listen to your personal experience.

I did watch David York and others deteriorate from their diseases. I have also watched and assisted many students attend to their health care needs and have watched them heal and restore their health through a variety of approaches. I am not heartless, nor hurtful. You don't need to project those qualities upon me...they don't exist within me. I have gone to great lengths to help people in our School as much as possible for two decades and counting. People have helped me, too. People have also ignored me. It's alright.

If I continue to come into this Forum and post stories about my experiences, then you will learn through my writing just what disciplines have been mastered to varying degrees. I should write a book... There are some accomplishments that I have documented with video, laboratory results, and witnesses; but then that became relatively unimportant to me. I fell in love with my Being when I could walk among the aspens in the mountains of Colorado and call forth the Wind...and the Wind would whisper to me immediately. I even taught four high school age girls to change the weather during one of the wild afternoon thunderstorms that passed through. I showed them how to change the weather in one quadrant of the sky where there were rain clouds, rain pouring down, and thunder with lightning on its way toward us. I asked them in what direction they wanted to learn to send the rain, since the earth needed to drink it up for all things to grow. They fully participated in the process and witnessed it happening right before their eyes. Then after the first successful demonstration, they wanted to make sure it wasn't just a fluke, so they picked another quadrant of the sky which was dark and rumbling and within five minutes there was blue sky and white clouds to their satisfaction. This was not the first time I did this and it will not be the last. In fact, at one Beginning Event at the Ranch, just before registration ended on the first day, new students were milling around between the Great Hall and the Annex and it was beginning to rain. They commented on how it would be nice to stop the rain. So I showed them how to do it and while everyone was watching as they got organized for the event to start...the rain stopped. There are more stories that I could share, and perhaps I will as time goes by. It's enough for me to know who I am and that I am satisfied with my level of mastery. Everyone can do what I do. I have given demonstrations to prove that this is the case in a quantifiable methodical manner. If I eventually discuss this here, it will be due to everyone honoring me for who I am...not who I know.

David - If you really want to meet for tea at Mr. Doug's, I will consider meeting with you. I prefer the Blue Bottle where I can get a cup of fair trade organic coffee! Mr. Doug's doesn't serve the kind of tea or water that I put in my beautiful body, so I would have to watch you drink your cup of tea while we talk. Fine by me...

Sara - I cannot send a private message on this Forum, but I thank you for yours. I am honored to hear from you. Blessings and much gratitude! Hopefully, we may find a way to exchange messages and discuss our common experiences with integrity and sincerity.

David - I do not personally know what Greg can or cannot do. I know him, but I have not asked him to demonstrate his prowess to me. I did discuss his train experience with him. One of these days, remind me to tell you the story about my airplane flight to Canada. I altered the weather during that flight while we were making our final pass after two hours of circling the airport waiting for permission to land the plane. I chose to make my connecting flight to Canada, since I was the Guest Speaker at a Holistic Medical Conference in Canada and didn't want to miss my speaking engagement. In front of all my fellow passengers I did 'my thing' to a lot of snickering and amusement and doubt. But when the captain announced that we had miraculously been cleared for landing, everyone near me cheered. They knew what had just happened and who had done it. No biggie...I just wanted to make my next flight and speak at the Conference.

moderator edits - EMF respects the privacy of all who post here. Please do not use people's proper names on this forum or use it to solicit others to reveal personal information about those who post here. Your cooperation is appreciated. Thank you.

*************


Sun May 31, 2009 7:42 pm
David McCarthy posted

wisewoman,

I will be happy to meet you anywhere in Yelm, just drop me a line.
The same goes for a video tape interview of any RSE student (current or not)demonstrating what RSE claims to teach.
It works like this,
If a Music School claims to teach a master course in classical Flute,
Yet....
Not one of its students can demonstrate playing the flute, even after twenty years in the school,
further more, not even the "Master Teacher" can demonstrate playing the flute...!
And I am not talking about "Talking year after year about the theory of playing the flute,
What kind of school would that be?
Did you not read in black and white the RSE curriculum?
What I am asking is a very simple request that would be forthcoming by any legitimate school
be it music or otherwise.
You are supporting an organization that is not only fraudulent..... it has destroyed peoples lives and continues to do so.
But what I read in your book of life is that everyone has free choice in these matter's,
much the same as Judith's RSE line.... "There are no victims in this world"..
But this is the philosophy of a sociopath....

David.

LARSE@ywave.com


_________________
?But he has nothing on at all,? cried at last the whole people....

[ex]

Let's be absolutely clear about this: I am not trolling here for anyone. I am not employed by JZ. I am not the spouse of any staff member or employee.

thanks for clearing this up.sorry for my missinterpretations.

[aussiegirl]

I think Wisewoman is failing to realise what many in cults such as RSE don't understand and that is just because two events happen seemingly simultaneously (eg I wanted the weather to change and it did) those two things are not necessarily related. Its easy (and convenient) to forget all the times that didn't happen and focus only on the times it did. I sincerely believe we can control things within ouselves but if someone had the ability to change the weather at will and they have a sincere concern regarding water shortage - well hello need I say anymore?

[David McCarthy]

hello aussiegirl,

but if someone had the ability to change the weather at will and they have a sincere concern regarding water shortage - well hello need I say anymore?

So true...
But if you were living in ramthaland....! one would simply reply....
Everyone has free will...(to die of thirst if need be) my compassion and knowingness is that great
that I will not rob them of their own free will and interfere...

"wisewomen"

I would like to make a point that you may not have considered.
Your word count for "I" in your post = 105 times..

This is a simple example of the "spiritual narcissism" that eventually corrupts and infects even the most open minded and caring person once the RSE indoctrinations take root in the heart and mind.
It is this blindness that actually robs us of the very "enlightenment" we think we have gained and exhibit.

RSE enlightenment is a fools gold, while the real gold "that is our life" is robbed from us, and from our loved ones ...
with our full blessing and in broad daylight,
but this nature of a religious cult.

No one joins a cult...!

David.

[Caterpillar]

Wisewoman or shall I call you Wonderwoman? Thank you for posting about all your wonderful healing and manifesting abilities. They are indeed awesome!

Just a friendly reminder that I?ve asked you several questions that you haven?t answered.

Moderators, I hope you don?t mind me asking Wisewoman again my important questions here as she has chosen to only post here now but has not answered my questions yet.

In case Wisewoman has forgotten, here are the questions again:



1) http://www.enlightenmefree.com/phpbb3/p ... .php?t=398

Wisewoman posted (Elizabeth Prophet?s section from above link): ?Your emotional distress will dissipate when you find a way to 'allow' everyone, including JZ, the freedom to be whoever they choose to be. You want that for yourself...do you not? A courtroom is no place to resolve the turmoil within your Being.?

My question to you from that post: Can you please explain to me the numerous court cases that JZ Knight herself has started. Why is JZ 'not allowing' other people as per RSE teachings?


2) From that post, what about all the 'discrepancies' that are apparent (in your face ...)?
The discrepancies are posted all over EMF if you care to look.


3) Wisewoman posted (Elizabeth Prophet?s section): ?If you are going to judge these two women, then it may be prudent to do so individually as they are distinct entities and have diverse histories.?

My question to you from that post: Did you read what I said about Elizabeth Prophet, based on previous posts here? I stated that she suffered from epilepsy which may have contributed to her 'visions'. Do you consider that a judgement? Are you also judging me then?


4) From that post, if you are so 'enlightened' and of course, I am not, could you please allow me to revel in my 'emotional distress' about JZ Knight and RSE?


5) http://www.enlightenmefree.com/phpbb3/p ... .php?t=819

Wisewoman posted (Sea-11 water scam from above link): ? After many years of evaluating various products for their efficacy in chelating heavy metals out of the blood and tissue of the human body, I would like to share my findings that Liquid Zeolite is an effective and inexpensive Chelation agent.

The Liquid Zeolite is a fairly safe and suitable substance which has been researched and is available in most Health Food Stores.

When taking several drops of Liquid Zeolite every twelve hours, the heavy metals from the consumption of the M-11 or M-3 which you are referring to as Sea Water on this Forum will be trapped and eliminated in a safe and prudent manner. It can be used along with the other substances mentioned on this Forum. It will also pull heavy metals like aluminum, mercury, and other foreign material out of the blood which comes from environmental sources in food, petroleum products (gas fumes included), and industrial settings.?


Joe S. posted (Sea-11 water scam) with reference: ?Zeolite marketers ordered to stop illegal claims. The FDA has ordered Zeo Health Ltd to stop illegal claims for three zeolite-containing mineral products: Destroxin (cancer prevention and treatment), Esdifan (diarrhea) and Zeo (hangover preventive). The warning letter noted that the company's Web site made the violative claims in metatags as well as in product descriptions. The metatags (hidden code intended to attract the attention of search engines) included "cancer prevention," "toxin removal," and "Natural supplements that... are proven to inhibit cancerous tumor growth, and will even prevent hangovers.... Effective diarrhea cure." The FDA letter also ordered the company to stop falsely claiming that the form of zeolite it uses is "approved by the FDA as completely safe." [Baca JR. Warning letter to Zeo Health Ltd, June 29, 2007]?


Wisewoman, from the above post, you stated that you are a ?qualified health professional?. You have suggested on EMF that Liquid Zeolite is a ?fairly safe and suitable substance which has been researched? as a chelating agent for heavy metal poisoning. According to the reference posted by Joe S., the FDA ordered the company to stop falsely claiming that the form of Zeolite it uses is completely safe.

Wisewoman, are you aware that as a ?qualified health professional?, there could be LEGAL ramifications when you give the wrong suggestion? Just a reminder that as a health professional, you have a duty of care even if posting on EMF to people here that are trusting of your self proclaimed health professional qualifications.


6) Wisewoman, my questions to you from that post: May I clarify your definition of a ?qualified health professional?? What are your credentials? Did you study a health related course at college? Are/Were you registered with the appropriate professional body so you can practice legally?


7) From above post, Wisewoman actually posted the full surname of the doctor that I?ve abbreviated:

?Dr. C was consulted and the chelating agent prescribed nearly shut down the kidneys due to improper dosage on his part. At some point in the future, this may warrant further discussion, but not at this time. There would be a lot of territory to cover and this is not the time nor the place for that extensive process.?


Wisewoman, as a ?qualified health professional? are you also aware there could be LEGAL ramifications for posting about another qualified health professional?s name on EMF without his permission or the patient?s permission. Furthermore, you have made a very serious accusation about Dr C?s ?almost shutting down a patient?s kidneys due to improper dosage on his part?.

There are two legal issues here: Number one - possible Defamation of Dr C and number 2 - possible Breach of Patient confidentiality.

I do not know if you have the patient?s complete medical history. Do you know for sure what might have contributed to the patient?s possible kidney failure ? the heavy metal poison or the chelating agent? Have you looked at the patient?s kidney function test results before the chelating agent was given by Dr C? Was there a comparison kidney function test report ordered before and after the chelating agent given by Dr C? May be the patient already had poor kidney function before the patient even saw Dr C. I don?t think Dr C would appreciate your comments about him on EMF without his prior permission. You haven?t specified any of the above and it is highly inappropriate of you to be mentioning this without the proper facts.


http://www.enlightenmefree.com/phpbb3/p ... .php?t=785

Wisewoman posted (Children?s section from above link): ?I taught a small class of children "Quantum Physics and Spirituality" for two hours?.

My question to you: Are you really a quantum physicist? Quantum physics involves the study of physics and math at college level.


9) From above post, you have given us many wonderful examples of healings and manifestations by yourself and other RSE students. As posted, may I repeat my request for verifiable evidence on EMF of every single case yourself, family and colleagues have claimed to heal and manifest.


10) http://www.enlightenmefree.com/phpbb3/p ... &start=100

Wisewoman posted (Is RSE a cult section from above link): ?Being a Wise Woman... I am here to say that RSE in NOT a cult.?

Here are my questions to you from that section: Wisewoman, you say RSE is not a cult or a scam but you haven?t given the reasons for your statement. Therefore we conclude that is your opinion and not a statement of fact. Further, by saying it is not a cult implies you must know what a cult is, so that you can say what it is not. What is your definition of a cult? What verifiable references do you cite?


11) From above post, EMF has given the references for the reasons RSE is considered a cult. Have you read these references?



In conclusion, dear Wisewoman, I take my posts seriously on EMF as I am aware that many RSE and non RSE people from around the world are reading about the questioning of the validity of RSE. You have chosen to question the validity of my posts and I am in turn asking you to prove that I am wrong.

I would be very happy to admit IF I am wrong about JZ Knight, Ramtha and RSE BUT you or your comrades in RSE have to prove to me in a factual manner (with verifiable references) that I am truly wrong about my decision to leave RSE. You have yet to prove that I am wrong about JZ, Ramtha and RSE. So I stand by my decision that JZ Knight is a CHARLATAN and RSE is a FRAUD. Evidence as per EMF posts.

All you have done so far is to post about your unverifiable experiences but you have not provided any proof of them. You have also not answered my questions to you. Therefore, I am left to conclude that your claims are false and you are just vexatious and disruptive on EMF.

May I remind you again of the purpose of EMF as stated on the home page: ?If you are a current, former, or prospective student of ?Ramtha? and have no doubts or issues about his "teachings", then this may not be the place for you. The information provided on this site is the observation and/or opinion of the writers.?

[Kensho]

Wisewoman,

QUOTE: "...there is now a machine that makes water from the atmosphere. We could use some of these, not only for our area, but everywhere. Technology is a wonderful thing!"

On another post you claim to be able to control the weather...and apparently quite specifically by sky quadrant. You claim to have taught the technique to children as well. If all that is true "Master", then why haven't you been busy in the drought torn regions of Africa, the drought & cyclone prone regions of Asia and why haven't you calmed the storms that have wiped out people's homes and environments on this part of the planet? Why haven't you leant your mystical power and wisdom to the children of the world so that they might truly inherit a future where "there are no victims?" Or is your love for all life still conditional in some way?

I suggest that rather than spending your time telling us of your great abilities and experiences, that you put them to use earnestly; so by your deeds we will know you. The world could really use the wonderful abilities you have claimed to be in your possession right now and especially in the future. Apparently there is quite some stormy weather in the next few years according to your teacher.

Rest assured that those who love and live in the world now ( I think your teacher calls them villagers) will do what can be done to relieve the suffering of other sentient beings through technology and what ever other means are available.

I sincerely ask that you let the sentient beings of this planet see a demonstration of a true Master's unconditional love through your thought, speech and action...or are your claims based upon the delusion that some of us on this forum also experienced through RSE?

[Robair]

Hello
I have just finished to read one of your post where to talk about changing the weather on your trip to Colorado.
With all do respect,your so call students were probabely not from Colorado I lived In Aspen for 14 Years an Everyone in Colorado will tell you that IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THE WEATTHER JUST WAIT 5 MINUTES AN IT WILL CHANGE. I changed the weather 100s of time in those 14 years my self.Just By waiting 5 minutes.
I really want to be fair with you an give you the benifit of the doubt but sometime it is hard to keep a straight face.
I tell you what you come here in Vegas an on a clear sunny day ( we have 300 of them a years) we can sit in my backyard an you can show me how it is done I will even buy a video recorder for the occasion or better yet David can come with his.
We love a good debate here on this site but it need to be kept believable or be able to be proven.

My Two cents

oldone


[/b]

[G2G]

It appears to me, at least, that some in RSE strictly adhere to the "allowing others their choices" theme --allowing others in this world untold suffering via hunger, droughts, floods, earthquakes, human and civil rights violations. The list goes on. This is 'allowing?' With the very wonderful powers ww claims, and we former RSE students maybe were once standing in ww's shoes--'allowing' is simply 'passing the buck,' caring only for oneself and wearing blinders to a world which 'indeed' has victims. Why does RSE not intervene in these worldwide disasters and prevent more 'victims' instead of 'allowing' with the blinders firmly taped in place?

Compassion is the missing 'element.'

Sitting here looking out at this rainy day and not yet checking the weather report--today there will be sun--because I focused on it. Not intending to demean ww, but I've heard this at RSE in audience when a student proclaimed they had changed the weather. When Judith dressed as ramtha asked how did the student know, the student responded, "I said the night before tomorrow will be sunny and it was." That's proof? It's all the proof many RSE students require. 'Because I said so' does not make it so.

ww --do you know any RSE students who have had rain on their wedding day? Certainly a bride wishes for sunshine on this special day--RSE student or not. Explain the sincere intent of a non-RSE bride for this over that of an RSE student, and what would be the difference? Both are sincere. Yet it rains for both? A hypothetical question, this is. Along with focus is intent. Both prospective brides would possess the intent of sunshine. Why would the RSE student's intent be more 'respected' by the universe? We are all equal. We are all 'villagers' of this planet and must share in the responsibility, for we are 'indeed' our brother's/sister's keepers--ALL of us. What does it matter to believe one has the ability to change the weather, and then shrug off those starving from famine by 'allowing?' Would you also 'allow' your children to suffer? Each time you heal one, as you claim your daughter healed her grandmother, this is not 'allowing.'

H. G. Wells' 'Time Machine' comes to mind. The Eloi watch another drowning and do nothing, simply 'allowing.' Where does an RSE student draw the line at 'allowing?' For the contradiction is within ww's post, when stating her daughter 'healed' the grandmother. Then one must ask, is healing NOT 'allowing?'

With the wonders RSE students can undertake, why not embrace compassion for all and heal the world? 'Allowing' = passing the buck imo--it's a tidy and convenient manner of not accepting accountability for responsibility in this world--other than for one's own interests. jmo.

Is it really, 'songbird, for you there will be no crying?'

[Robair]

Hello Everyone
It just hit me like a ton of brick while thinking about W.W.'s Weather post.

About Global Warming an Earth Changes that has been happening the last few decades everyone think it is man made, my self now think that it is Ramsters Made,these manifesting Masters have been fooling around with the weather for sometime now an are affecting the weather pattern everywhere,
YOU GUYS STOP THAT, you are confusing every experts, an you got pour Al Gore running all over the globe telling everyone he can find that global warming Earth Changes are Man Made,while buying all the green stocks shares he can get his hand on while becoming Billionaire.
All of your manifestation seam to be work very well for him but not so well for you guys all you get out of it is weather changes,an like JZ he get ALL the dough.

I am better stop here before the sheriff get me. oops I am one of them

Have a good day

Oldone

[G2G]

Oldone -- I think you got something there. Could the reason RSE students are "failing" (at least according to Judith as ramtha "if you could see your bands you'd cry!) because they focus only on what they require and not the needs for the greater good

Yes, you stop that RSE'ers and use your 'prowess' for the benefit of all.

[ex]

g2g: make the world a better place? where is the money in this ? jzr will only be intrested if it paies off. ww: only 1 reason why rse is not a cult please only one. oo :i thought about this too if you prepare for the worst dont you manifest it ?

[Caterpillar]

Wisewoman?s relationship with Ramtha and out of body experience

Hello Wisewoman

It?s Caterpillar again. Apart from my long letter to you earlier, I have some more questions for you.


I?m really intrigued by your post about Ramtha and the out of body experience below:


http://www.enlightenmefree.com/phpbb3/p ... ight=#6255

Copied from above, WW: ?Long before the channeling, I have known Ramtha. He is as real as you and I are. I learned how to leave my body when I was a child, because my father had an out-of-body experience during surgery and we often discussed the process together. I am no stranger to the Masters and even when my friends experience my travels and visits OOB; they recognize me and I recognize them. I cannot expect anyone who has not encountered others OOB to fully comprehend these experiences and it is not surprising that you so easily dismiss it as 'imagination' or 'scam' or any other descriptive label you might assign to diminish the reality of it. Eventually you may find that you will come to know what I know when you are able to leave your body and travel intentionally and with awareness OOB.?



Wisewoman, could you please elaborate on the experience with Ramtha, the Masters and your friends? As you have mentioned, some people have never experienced an out of body or seen spiritual beings. So it would really help those people if you can explain how you do it and what you actually see and feel. Have you photographed Ramtha? How did he look like when he first appeared to you? What exactly do you mean by ?he is as real as you and I are?? Is he a solid figure and you can pinch him? You also said you have known Ramtha long before the channeling. What do you mean by that statement? Are you saying that you met Ramtha BEFORE he appeared to JZ Knight on Feb, 1977? Wow, I always thought Ramtha is exclusive to JZ.

Also in what way do you recognize your friends out of body? Did you plan to meet them out of body before the experience? Like making an appointment to meet at the organic caf?. What is the setting for the out of body? Is it at a caf?? What do you do with your friends out of body? Do you drink organic skinny coffee with organic skinny muffin at the caf?? Does the caf? still charge money if you?re out of body? Are you planning on meeting David out of body, too? That would be real cool if you are!!! Can I join you guys if I can get out of body? I prefer organic skinny, too. Anybody else on EMF wants to get out of body and join them?


P.S. I would like to advise you to be a little cautious about what you say about your relationship with Ramtha. JZ Knight owns the copyright to Ramtha as per court case below.


http://www.ramtha.com/html/media/faqs/jz/who.stm

This is copied from above Ramtha website:

?1997: On April 22, the Austrian Supreme Court rules that JZ Knight is the only person allowed to channel Ramtha. In 1992, Julie Ravell, a Berlin woman, claimed to be the true channel for Ramtha. She held seminars in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland, resulting in multiple instances of trademark infringement. JZ Knight in her desire to keep pure the teachings of Ramtha, brought a lawsuit against Ravell, and in 1995 an appellate court in Linz, Austria ordered Ravell to stop using Ramtha's name in conjunction with her channeling sessions and to pay JZ's court costs. Ravell appealed to the Austrian Supreme Court, but on June 6, 1997 the Supreme Court upheld the lower court's rulings.?



http://www.enlightenmefree.com/phpbb3/p ... utcher#992

Copied from above article by John Crutcher:

?In the fall of 1994, a strange lawsuit in the annals of copyright law played itself out in Linz, Austria. A German woman named Ravell was successfully sued for copyright infringement by J.Z. Knight. Ravell's transgression? Channeling a German speaking Ramtha. J.Z. hired Johann Hintermeyer, an Austrian attorney to sue the woman and protect her, evidently, copyrighted personality.
"Ramtha the spirit gave her my address," Hintermeyer said to a Canadian Public Radio interviewer. "A friend of mine heard that she is looking for an expert in this. Mrs. Ravell and Ms. Knight, they are in a big competition about the spirit. But my client, Ms. Knight, is the first to channel the spirit. It's not possible that Ramtha was talking through both women. That's not possible. The German woman is lying."
Hintermeyer won the case for J.Z., and set a precedent for copyrighting a supposedly channeled personality.
"If she did pursue and win such a case," says Kerry S. Buklin, a Seattle copyright attorney, "then J.Z. Knight has for all intents and purposes admitted that Ramtha is not a product of spirituality, not a spirit, but a creation."
Copyright law, which is pretty much the same in Austria as it is in the United States, defends things that one creates, not something spiritual that emanates out of oneself. You cannot copyright Jesus Christ or Buddha.
"When you register a copyright," says Buklin, "you are admitting it's a fictional character. You only get a copyright if the thing being copyrighted is a fiction, something made up.
"She's admitting that she's full of it. To say that no one else can imitate this performance, this creation, this style, she's acknowledging that she is a fraud."
The enigma is not Ramtha.
The enigma is a woman named J.Z.?




Wisewoman, the copyright attorney said that in order for JZ to win the case, she has to admit that Ramtha is a creation because one cannot copyright spiritual beings like Jesus Christ or Buddha. The attorney said that you can only get a copyright for something made up ie a fictional character like Ramtha.

That?s why my posts say that Ramtha is a fictional character as JZ has admitted that in court. JZ is acknowledging that she is a fraud as she has successfully copyrighted Ramtha.

Wisewoman, you have said you also know Ramtha long before the channeling. Could it be that Ramtha lied to JZ or is JZ lying about Ramtha? Could you please set the record straight here as I?m confused as to who is telling the truth ? yourself, JZ, Ramtha or the attorney???

[Another Dimension60]

It seems that wise woman sincerely believes in what she believes. And although, David, I too see a classic/typical Ramster arrogance, it is a bit of a catch 22 ' we did ask wise woman to speak to her 'proof'. I'm also seeing a behavior similar to previous posters of requiring a lot of attention. And we're giving it to her. Nevertheless, perhaps it's an opportunity to articulate some thoughts/perspectives, knowing that others will be reading, including current and former and still Ramsters'.
The Ramtha of pre-RSE, of the 70's to mid '80's was about the Power OF/Being one with God. The power OVER / of mind over matter was scoffed at and considered lesser power than the ultimate Power OF. On a tv show in the late 80's early 90's JZ declared that Ramtha was about mind over matter/the power over.
Part of the schizophrenia and confusion of RSE is that it presents both perspectives 'the disciplines are all about mind over matter, the teachings of quantum physics are used to reinforce the possibilities of mind over matter; mixed together with talk of Christs ' which for many of us implies those mentioned qualities of love and compassion, cooperation, peace, harmony, healing. Ramtha teaches two paths simultaneously.
Perhaps wise woman you do have the ability to manipulate the weather, and travel out of body and other such feats. Perhaps you are an adept at mind over matter. Magicians and sorcerers and manipulators have always existed. But you didn't create the elements of the sky and clouds and rain and thunder, or the mind that has the ability to manipulate those elements.

Although David, and others, have clearly made the point that RSE has promised to teach certain techniques and develop certain abilities (the music school metaphor is lovely) ' that's so easily answered - and if we've been to only one Ramtha event, we know the answer ' no one tried hard enough, no one was passionate enough, committed enough'blah blah blah. And, some people, such as wisewoman and others who have posted here, have always had what could be called 'psychic abilities'; and/or visions, prophetic dreams, OBEs, lucid dreaming, communicated with the dead; etc. ' and were perhaps drawn and hooked into RSE because it provided acknowledgment and validity to these abilities.
(Ironically, Joe, it was via Edgar Cayce readings that I learned of all such abilities ' and through the Edgar Cayce readings learned to understand their ultimate irrelevance.)
Many people, it seems, are drawn to RSE to learn psychic tricks ' to learn to better manipulate their world/life, to learn mind over matter/the power over. As ww so repeatedly states ' it's a choice. It's not my choice ' so as important as the apparent lack of results from RSE's Teacher/Heirophant/Enlightend Being, it was the utter absence of a state of Being that I sought/seek ' Union with the Divine, Being loving, Being compassionate, Being a channel of healing, Being a facilitator of Love among those with whom I dwell. I was in the wrong place ' and recognized that because I was a sincere passionate committed student and did all the disciplines at the time, and found my card, and arrived at the 'void', and walked blindfolded amidst 1000 people and didn't get bumped, etc. '. So what. And whether or not we're Christian or have a Christian background or hate Christianity, the words of Paul are relevant and true in every true Spiritual tradition ''If I speak in the tongues of mortals and of angels, but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains,(or change the weather) but do not have love, I am nothing. 3If I give away all my possessions, and if I hand over my body so that I may boast,a but do not have love, I gain nothing.'
Psychic gifts, Spiritual gifts ' so what. To me, (the perhaps not apparent to you,) utter rhetoric of declaring someone had a choice and died or failed or lost their job or got caught in a tsunami or was raped or abused as a child or beaten daily by their spouse etc.,has not love. And wise woman, if you tell me how loving you are, as long as you don't see the closed heartedness of blaming the victim, your words are like clanging symbols to me. ' And I do understand the perspective of 'it's all perfect' or it's all an illusion or we're masters of our fate ' More importantly, I recognize that where we live, where we dwell, where we are to function is in this 3 dimensional reality ' we're not functioning from the 7th or 8th or 23rd dimension ' and in this dimension, if we're fortunate enough to touch the hem of the 4th dimension, we know that what we're called to do is open our hearts. And although the dying person or abused child or beaten woman or storm trapped victim at some dimension sometime some other illusion 'chose' to have this experience, in this 3rd/4th/and 5th perhaps dimension, the issue is not the choice ' the call is to love and serve with compassion however we're called and with whatever gifts/abilities we have.
Again ww, to blame Jeffry for his 'choice' to die is, to me, a heartless absurdity - particularly if it's based on his not accepting your particular way of healing. To not acknowledge the influence JZ and Ramtha had on his ability to choose; to indicate that JZ and Ramtha chose not to heal Jeffry for his own good, is beyond heartless ' and whether or not RSE is a cult is irrelevant to the fact that it is not a 'way' a 'path' a perspective that I choose to live by. There is a difference between the power over and the Power OF. The choice we need to make is to be magicians who manipulate our world, or be Christs who manifest love in all we say and do --- they are two separate choices. Wise Woman clearly demonstrates and articulates the one; those who disagree with her here seem to be choosing the other. 'so be it' (Taylor Caldwell, Great Lion of God, 1970).

[Caterpillar]

Hello Wisewoman again

You seem to be of interest on EMF. No questions and no sarcasm here ?. (for a change).

I would like you to know that I?ve had similar thoughts as you about LARSE/EMF before I left RSE teachings. I also had similar thoughts about Jeff Knight and other ?victims? of RSE.

I was in RSE for about 9 years. With RSE?s teachings, I had CHANGED to become someone that is arrogant, unemotional/detached about other people?s sufferings, no compassion, self-centered, really paranoid about the government, the Catholic church and days to come. I also thought that people create/choose their illnesses and deaths because they have such bad attitudes or are living in the past so I don?t need to be compassionate about them. It?s their own fault.

After having left RSE (it?s been about 2 months), I realize that RSE promotes a narcissistic perception by the notion that we create our reality and how we can change timelines so it doesn?t matter about the past and other people. That?s similar to how a sociopath thinks. That belief system allows us to make statements such as ?the victims created it so they deserve it?. It does not foster compassion for others because they have created it and Ramtha said not to feel sorry for them . Unfortunately, when I was pro-RSE, I never perceived it to be narcissistic. If anything, I thought it was self-empowering because I was the creator of everything in my reality. I was taught that I am God. I had become a sociopath inadvertently under the guise of enlightenment. It can also mean that it doesn?t matter how I treat other people because they are in my reality. When I change to a new timeline, they disappear so it doesn?t matter how I treat them. Ramtha has always encouraged his students to leave the past behind which includes family, friends, culture, job etc and remain unemotional about the decision.

The comments you made here are typical of a pro-RSE student from its teachings. It may seem that you are ?creating? your reality with the disciplines. However, there are non-RSE people that have similar manifestations that do not give credit to Ramtha?s disciplines.

That?s all I wanted to say. You may not agree but that?s ok.

[Another Dimension60]

love-ly well put clear statement of perception Cat - thank you.
It has also been my sense that ww is clueless re her behavior and attitude. As we were when we were under jz's spell. You've described it all perfectly. We were taught at Estes Park in '89 (I think) to literally not look in a mirror. - and so it seems such teaching has continued with jz - i.e. to not look at one's self.
What always confuses me re the so called ability to create one's reality - is that if, as some scientists say, the flap of a butterfly's wing in Brazil can impact the weather in Seattle, and if beyond the apparent chaos there is Order..... what does the self-centered disposition of one's selfish reality do to the actual reality of all of Life.? What if that plane needed to be late because of bad weather so it wouldn't crash into another plane that was in the wrong place at that moment.? Haven't some of you had the experience of being delayed on your way to somewhere only to realize that if you hadn't been delayed that tree limb would have fallen on your car, or you would have been in the middle of an accident, etc?

[wisewoman]

AussieGirl - I would like you to know that my ability to alter the weather is steadfast and rather common. You suggest that if one has the ability to do this, that providing water where it is needed would be advantageous.

I agree...and such relief has been provided on occasion. I am selective with the location that deserves my attention. Recently I brought snow to areas of Colorado that were experiencing a drought. Water as Snow...my pleasure.

There are many such instances that I could describe for you. I do not wish to take the time to do this here. Perhaps I will write a book and offer the documentation.

It doesn't stop here with bringing water to an area where there is less than needed to support a healthy ecosystem. I have enjoyed bringing the rain, the snow, the sun, the wind, and even bringing a new spring on the mountain, so that life would flourish.

I don't brag about it...it is a demonstration of one level of Mastery for me personally. I just want you to know that my work is not a 'fluke' or a 'coincidence', so that you are aware that this is possible.

[wisewoman]

David - The use of 'I' is strictly due to my choice of describing my personal experience. It is what I know and not what passes for assumptions. So no matter how many 'I's you count it is not a measure of being narcissistic.

It is fully my intention to speak from direct experience, so no one is confused by opinion or assumptions when I am stating what is on my mind.

[wisewoman]

I just returned to this forum and here I find so many posts with questions and comments directed toward me specifically.

Wow!

Not enough time in the day today to respond to each and everyone, but I did get a good start...with two!

I'll be back.

[Caterpillar]

Wisewoman, I 'allow' you to continue with your 'Ramtha delusion'.

Perhaps you are in the wrong forum. You should be posting in the Masters connection forum where you and your comrades can 'focus' to make the world a better place.

Here's the link: http://www.mastersconnection.com/

[Caterpillar]

David, I think Wisewoman is lost. She hasn't found the right forum for her posts.

Wisewoman, please remove your blinders. Here's the link again: http://www.mastersconnection.com/

When you see your friend, JZ, please inform her that I would LOVE to have a chat with her, not Ramtha. I think she will remember me. We shared an 'intimate moment' not so long ago. JZ knows where to find David and he knows how to locate me.

[David McCarthy]

wisewoman,

I'll be back.

Sure you will,
but please resist posting your willy nilly comments elsewhere on EMF.
This "Current RSE Students Debate Forum" has been created especially for RSE supporters willing to engage in a respectful and sincere debate.

It is fully my intention to speak from direct experience, so no one is confused by opinion or assumptions when I am stating what is on my mind.

There have been many RSE members who also sincerely believe they are "speaking from direct experiences"....
that not only lost touch with their loved ones and friends but the eventually lost touch with reality
and ended up at the ER at St. Peters hospital and committed into the care of the local mental health authorities.
Why not direct your healing powers to help these unfortunate "Ramtha" believers that Judith will deny and discard when the police come knocking at her door...
Judith will then claim they had "a history" of mental illness before they arrived at RSE, but all was fine and dandy taking their money year after year until the authorities start inquiring as to why certain "Ramsters" have gone mad and have harmed themselves or others....
Of course.... you know nothing of what I am talking about...
but try asking Judith's RSE "ringmasters", as they know exactly what I am talking about.
And while you are at it...
Please pass on that invitation to Judith from Caterpillar.
And don't forget my invitation....
Lets meet at "The Blue Bottle" and I will explain all the more... ..

David.

LARSE@ywave.com

[Caterpillar]

Wisewoman, I'm sorry if I showed you the 'exit'. David has welcomed your stay in the 'Current RSE Students Debate Forum' and I respect his and the Moderators' decision.

Please send my best wishes to JZ. I do wish her well and would love to chat with her soon.

[ex]

I have enjoyed bringing the rain, the snow, the sun, the wind, and even bringing a new spring on the mountain, so that life would flourish.
[quote] do you make the earth revolving the sun? dont waste your time on answering that. still one question:whats the significent difference for rse not beeing a cult? later i have some more if you can answer this.

[Kensho]

Hello to all that post on EMF,

As the moderators work to ensure that the general rules for posting are followed in all threads, we often struggle to also ensure that our actions are equally fair and respectful of the opinions expressed by all who post.
To that end, we ask that you review the Guidelines for posting on EMF and the Sticky:Guidelines for Posting in this Thread.

We are aware that moving posts from one thread to another may lead to confusion but this is most often done because the thread has either gone off topic or by virtue of the opinions expressed, it is more appropriate to another forum.

These factors have led us to move Wisewoman's posts from other threads to this one. Past experience has revealed that as members of EMF enter into discussions with her regarding the validity of the RSE mind set, threads go off topic within one or two responses to her posts. Attempting to split the posts of a thread that has more than one topic under discussion is difficult to say the least; especially while we attempt to also maintain the integrity of what has been posted.

EMF welcomes open discussion and debate with supporters of RSE, but in consideration for EMF members who do not wish to engage that topic while participating in other threads, we ask that those discussions be posted in this thread.

It has been suggested that in the interest of continuity, it would be helpful to preface some posts with quotes and/or a brief statement clarifying what a response-post is in reference to.

We thank Wisewoman for posting her comments directly in this forum rather than on other threads as we thank all who post on EMF for their consideration.

[Caterpillar]

Wisewoman, you have made extraordinary claims on EMF about your superhuman abilities, some of which you have had before meeting Ramtha. You haven?t produced any evidence even though you have been asked numerous times. Without providing evidence, you are merely vexatious on EMF. Your behavior is typical of a ?deluded? sociopathic RSE student with NO evidence.

You have also been told to post only in the ?Current RSE students debate forum? because of your pro-RSE stance but you haven?t yet abided by that rule. Please remove your blinders so you know where you?re going.

I have a suggestion that would help both RSE and EMF, and would also END this debate about the validity of Ramtha and his teachings.

Wisewoman, from your claims, I think you are worthy to take up the James Randi?s 1 million dollar paranormal challenge.

Here?s the link: http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

Copied from above link:

?The Foundation is committed to providing reliable information about paranormal claims. It both supports and conducts original research into such claims.

At JREF, we offer a one-million-dollar prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event. The JREF does not involve itself in the testing procedure, other than helping to design the protocol and approving the conditions under which a test will take place. All tests are designed with the participation and approval of the applicant. In most cases, the applicant will be asked to perform a relatively simple preliminary test of the claim, which if successful, will be followed by the formal test. Preliminary tests are usually conducted by associates of the JREF at the site where the applicant lives. Upon success in the preliminary testing process, the "applicant" becomes a "claimant."

To date, no one has passed the preliminary tests.?



Wisewoman, this is your opportunity to prove to the world that you have extraordinary abilities. JZ/Ramtha will be pleased to have contributed to your paranormal achievements (yet to be proven). If proven, RSE would be the only school that people should be attending.

Your friend, JZ may be up to it, too. I say ?may? because I?ve been to numerous events where JZ, the body failed to show up because she was so ill. I don?t know why Ramtha didn?t heal her. He doesn?t appear to be compassionate because she created the ill health. Perhaps you or your family could help JZ as you mentioned your ?healing? claims before.

I encourage you to go for the $1 million dollar challenge. Ramtha would be very proud of you. He just whispered in my ear that you should go for it!

[David McCarthy]

Thank you Caterpillar,

Wisewoman this is a "golden" opportunity for you, and all RSE students, to step up to the line and sweep aside those
that are "confused by opinion or assumptions of what you are claiming" by your demonstrating just how extraordinary you are from what you have learned from "Ramtha'" and "his" school of enlightenment.


An interesting read by James Randi,
Here is an excerpt...

We had other sad cases, difficult situations. One Mexican man showed up at our door with an empty suitcase in his hand?to hold the million dollars. We asked him, through our interpreter, why he had come. He was a very poor man, and he?d come from Mexico, somehow, with this empty suitcase, and he said, ?I can win the million dollars because I met a UFO out in the desert.? ?Yes. . . ?? ?And they spoke to me.? ?Yes. . . ?? ?And now I glow in the dark. You can see me in the dark.? ?Okay, we can test that right now.?

So we took him into our library, which has no windows, it?s all dark inside, and I went and got two people off the street. I said, ?Would you volunteer to do a scientific experiment?? ?Oh, yes, of course.? So they came in, I put them in the room, put the man in the room, turned out the lights. I said, ?Can you see this man?? They said, ?What man?? I said, ?The Mexican gentleman here says he glows in the dark.? ?No, no.? ?You can?t see him?? ?No.?

We turned on the light again. I said, ?They can?t see you,? and he replied, ?Oh, I?m not feeling strong, I haven?t had breakfast yet.? I said, ?Well, go and have breakfast, if you want, and come back.? ?Oh, I will, I will.? He took his suitcase and he left. I didn?t see him again. He didn?t come back. But you have to feel sorry for people like this.

I also tested a group of children from an organization called Instituto M?s Vida?the Institute for More Life. This is a group in Mexico that teaches children to see while blindfolded. Well, actually they don?t teach them to see while blindfolded, they teach them to cheat while blindfolded. When you give the children something written and they?re wearing a blindfold?you see them peeking . . . Ah, yes, then they can read it, you see? Or if you hold it up here, they say, ?What paper? Where? Where?? You hold it down here, way down here, they can see it, and they like to put it on their laps while they?re sitting in the chair, and then they read it like this, with their head tilted up.

So I simply take a little bit of tape and put it into their eye orbits over their eyelids so they cannot open their eyes, and they lose their psychic powers immediately. I tested them live on Japanese television, and another group like that in Korea. These are some of the difficult ones to handle because these are children, and you don?t want to be cruel to children. They?re doing a little joke. They don?t think it?s serious, but of course it can be very serious.

You must know that most of the people, the vast majority of people who come to be tested for the million-dollar prize, are innocent. They?re self-deluded. They?re not the fakers. Oh, I?ve had a few of those, but I get rid of them. I point where the trick is, good-bye, and they?re gone. But very few. Most of them are very innocent, so innocent that when you ask them, ?How successful will this test be?? They always say, ?One-hundred percent. I never miss.? That?s an easy test to do. As soon as they miss one . . . Arrivederci. Goodbye. Out of here.

Fakers and Innocents (Skeptical Inquirer July/August 2005)
http://www.csicop.org/si/2005-07/randi.html

[Caterpillar]

Wisewoman can help Sylvia Browne find James Randi:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sesamjLN ... ure=fvsre2 (1:42 mins)


The $1 million dollar challenge will end on March 6, 2010.