Is RSE A Cult? Being a Wise Woman...

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wisewoman
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Is RSE A Cult? Being a Wise Woman...

Unread post by wisewoman »

moderator comment: Thank you for your post wisewoman; it has been moved from the link location below as we welcome debate on this particular forum with those who have a pro RSE stance. We hope that you understand that a purpose of the other forums on EMF is to facilitate discussion amongst those interested in a view other than that of RSE. Pro RSE-off topic posts are moved to this forum to facilitate discussion for those members who wish to engage it.
Again we thank you for posting and thank you in advance for using this forum for your future posts.


The EnlightenMeFree 'EMF' Message Board Forum Index ?
Is RSE a cult ? Post your opinion.
http://www.enlightenmefree.com/phpbb3/p ... &start=100

Wisewoman posted:

I am here to say that RSE in NOT a cult.
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David McCarthy
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Unread post by David McCarthy »

I am here to say that RSE in NOT a cult.
Hello wisewoman,

Do you believe RSE is a "School of Enlightenment"?


David.
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....
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Robair
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Unread post by Robair »

Hello Wisewoman
We do have two forum you can take your opinion, In Current student debate forum... or Is RSE is a cult.
We will see you there. for sure

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Robair
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Unread post by Robair »

Hello Wisewoman.
For 26 years I have defended RSE against anyone that was attacking it.An now I am willing to dedicate the next 26 years to let every one known that RSE is a cult
Oldone
ex
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Unread post by ex »

ok here r books and guidelines listed to determine what a cult is.please give me only one aspect of rse which is not "cultlike"
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Robair
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Unread post by Robair »

Hello wise woman.

You came here to tell us that RSE is not a cult.
what is a cult according to YOUR understanding?
An also can you name a group that you would put into that Category?
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G2G
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Unread post by G2G »

Wisewoman, thou art not, for thou cannot "see."
Take off the blinders, and follow not a 10,000 yr. old barbarian/woman in disguise, but that which you have always known to be true.
You.
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972
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Robair
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Hello everyone

Unread post by Robair »

Hello
What happened to Wisewoman.
Oldone
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Sad Grandfather
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Unread post by Sad Grandfather »

I think the "Wise"woman displayed her ignorance, and didn't have the fortitude to stay and defend her position.
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!
wisewoman
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Patience...Patience...I am Back for Further Discussion

Unread post by wisewoman »

I am back and it would be truly wonderful if you could show me some small courtesy and refrain from making critical references to whether or not I am 'wise'. I kept this username, because I used it when discussing some of these topics with some of the same people here on a different Forum years ago. I enjoy 'continuity'.

I still and will always maintain that RSE in not a cult. I do not think that RSE is a scam either. Yet I can certainly understand why some people would label the School in a derogatory manner. People come and go from RSE all the time and this is based upon free will and personal choice. I have seen a lot of people maintain their personality quirks even after twenty years; and then again I have seen many people grow and change in a positive and constructive way to become better human beings. I could site any number of examples as I have been around since '87.

I have described RSE as an Ancient School of Wisdom. When I was exposed to the concept of Ancient Schools of Wisdom in Eckankar, the idea impressed me that there had to be a method for preserving the Teachings through time and in different cultures. I suppose that is where the concept of the 'golden thread' came from and still persists today.

So...I assure you that I do possess 'fortitude', yet I am not here to defend anyone or anything. I am glad to share my perspective and my experiences in order to bring greater clarity of thought to the issues and concerns raised in these Threads.

I was in the tank once and Jeffrey was just behind me. Ramtha was coaching him and encouraging him. I paused for a moment to consider their relationship and then continued on with my own experience with a favorable outcome. Jeffrey was not disciplined and he did not tend to his own health. He did have access to traditional and holistic practitioners and did not avail himself of their care to the extent that it could have altered the course of his disease and could have found resolution. I say this from direct experience, so you don't need to debate me. Near the end of Jeffrey's life, I had some dealings with Ellen and Jeffrey. Jeffrey was not a victim. He simply lived his life the way he wanted to and the ramifications led to his death. There are others who were exposed to the HIV virus who were more proactive and are still alive and well.

Long before the channeling, I have known Ramtha. He is as real as you and I are. I learned how to leave my body when I was a child, because my father had an out-of-body experience during surgery and we often discussed the process together. I am no stranger to the Masters and even when my friends experience my travels and visits OOB; they recognize me and I recognize them. I cannot expect anyone who has not encountered others OOB to fully comprehend these experiences and it is not surprising that you so easily dismiss it as 'imagination' or 'scam' or any other descriptive label you might assign to diminish the reality of it. Eventually you may find that you will come to know what I know when you are able to leave your body and travel intentionally and with awareness OOB. So grandfather, there is no reason to be so sad.

2G2 - I like my blinders. I designed them. Literally. We originally called them 'pocket pagans' and now the pockets are considered to be a place to keep earplugs instead of nails and hair clippings as intended by design. I call them masks and I designed them to keep all the light out and to be comfortable. So I will keep my mask on...thanks! I can see well enough with or without my mask with clear vision. Furthermore, I do not follow anyone. I am very much my own Master. Ask anyone who actually knows me and they will firmly and without hesitation tell you that I am true to myself no matter what.

I am not a current student in the School, but I do consider myself to be in alignment with the Teachings. I live what I know and I am most assuredly a spiritual person working to find the balance of body, mind, and spirit.
Caterpillar
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Unread post by Caterpillar »

Wisewoman, you say RSE is not a cult or a scam but you haven?t given the reasons for your statement. Therefore we conclude that is your opinion and not a statement of fact. Further, by saying it is not a cult implies you must know what a cult is, so that you can say what it is not. What is your definition of a cult? What verifiable references do you cite?

EMF has given the references for the reasons RSE is considered a cult. Have you read these references?

Regarding your extensive descriptions on out of body illusions, I agree those experiences are true and real to you. You seem sincere in the way you describe them. As a Ramtha student would say ? that is your truth.

I quote from an excerpt of Michael Shermer?s book ? Why People Believe Weird Things:

http://www.michaelshermer.com/weird-things/excerpt/

?The core question is this: does the experience represent something exclusively inside the mind or outside in the real world? Since there is no physical evidence to confirm the validity of the latter hypothesis, the logical conclusion to draw, knowing what we do about the fantastic imagery the brain is capable of producing, is that experiencer?s experiences are nothing more than mental representations of strictly internal brain phenomena.?

So well put by Michael Shermer.
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Robair
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Unread post by Robair »

Hello Wisewoman

Well you have been very busy the last few hour.we might have to move some of your into the proper tread will see.
I am reading all your post while listening to an old tape of JZR from Hawaii 1984, while I am recording it on DVD.
I will have to read them again,since I was listening with on ear and reading with one eye.
Can you anwser those few question asked by some of us,in one of my previous post,I asked you

What is a cult according to your understanding?
Also why are you not current in the school?

Oldone
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Sad Grandfather
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Unread post by Sad Grandfather »

Wisewoman, you can easily make your point. Just come to me OOB and appear to me, answer my questions, and I will attest to the validity of your claims.

My primary question, regarding Judy Knight is, since she is the ultimate master, she should obviously be able to manifest whatever she wants, including great wealth, so why has she made her millions off the backs of her students, all of whom end up poorer for their experience? AND now that she has made her millions, why is she still charging a handsome fee to "students" to attend her "school".

Sorry, that was 2 questions.

Other questions - - -
Why does she pay the airlines to take her to her meetings around the world, when she could just as easily go OOB?

If you have read all the posts on this site you, no doubt, have seen dozens of other questions, which make NO sense to rational people. I'll be waiting here for your appearance!
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!
ex
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Unread post by ex »

ww sorry was wrong about your marrigestatus you r still married to a major rse co cult leader.since your kids are so great tell the not so flatring story of your son in gingers school. gingers cancer death is probably proof to you how supirier you and your familie is.since you know cse tell everybody about the means ginger and her husband got booted out of their school.do you get paid to post here?or do you just write for your husband.ignoring this questions will proof that i am right on the money.
As I Recall It
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Unread post by As I Recall It »

WISEWOMAN...

Just a little puzzled as to why such a magnificent teacher is unable to hold you at the school....maybe there is nothing further for you to learn?

I will take you to task over one aspect of your story and that is your suggestion that your father discovered 'a process' to having OOB experiences as a consequence of dying during surgery....and he passed that process onto yourself.

Two years ago I also died during surgery excepting that I was fully conscious (by necessity) at the time, I was not under anesthetic - one moment I was in great distress and couldn't breathe and the next instant (less than a mili second) I was fully congisant and in another place, no noise, no distress, no recall of where I had just been, no white light either but surrounded by a beautiful pale blue with some unrecognizeable figures in the near distance.

I was dead (later confirmed) but I didn't know that at the time - I was too busy wondering where the blazes I was - the reason I relate this story is simply to state that there was no 'process' involved, one moment I was fully conscious and in severe stress and in less than a moment I was elsewhere - there wasn't any separation of time from being alive to being dead....to suggest that there was a procees that could be passed on is utter crap and if you don't believe me then I suggest you try it and find out for yourself....it's certainly nothing to be fearful of.

Now for those believers in the 'light teachings' - if when you die you don't immediately realise that you are dead (my experience and many others) then how can you make a conscious decision not to go to the light (?) and better still....I can assure you that there is no bl**dy way you have any idea which is north, south, east or west....so how on earth can you "look to the east" as the Big R instructed us to do???
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Sad Grandfather
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Unread post by Sad Grandfather »

WIERD!

Image
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!
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G2G
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Unread post by G2G »

AsIRecallIt: can you pm me with details of the NDE experience? I'm a medpro and have had patients return. A few doctors experienced themselves while having a myocardial infarction. It's interesting to me, that's all. Appreciate your sharing here. :D :D :D
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972
Lost in Space
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Unread post by Lost in Space »

In my death experience, I was immediately surrounded by brilliant crystal light, so I don't believe that was something about which I had a choice; I do think that in my perception of it, I had a choice about whether to return to my earthly body and try to live.
Reading up on experiences of death from other people who have come back from them, I can only say that such experiences seem to be perceived in myriad different ways.
What strikes me about the teachings in this regard is that they seem designed to instill fear. Does anybody want to comment on whether that is deliberate? And why would Ramtha want to instill fear?
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Sad Grandfather
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Unread post by Sad Grandfather »

Lost in Space wrote: What strikes me about the teachings in this regard is that they seem designed to instill fear. Does anybody want to comment on whether that is deliberate? And why would Ramtha want to instill fear?
Fear is one side of the plan of anyone who wishes to control people. It works for various Christian sects, i.e., "If you don't do exactly what we tell you, you will burn in Hell for eternity", and the way Judy jumped on the 2012 thing to scare people into moving to Yelm. Fear is an important element in all religions, as well as with government controlling their subjects.

I doubt that "ramtha" would want to instill fear, since "he" is a fictional character in an elaborate scam, but would Judy? Oh, yeah!!
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!
Lost in Space
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Unread post by Lost in Space »

Dear Sad Grandfather:

Sorry to have implied that I believe in the existence of Ramtha; I know that must be irritating to people here. And maybe my comment belongs on the "Days to Come" thread. I was never a student; I just know one that I care about.
It is interesting what you say, that all religions inspire fear. I suppose this is a built in mechanism in some religions, or schools, to foster dependence. I respectfully partially disagree, though. In some respects, for example, Eastern religions teach that we can conquer fear through meditation; stilling the mind; and some promote an almost foolhardy fearlessness (which reminds me of postings here, where people became convinced that they could avert catastrophic health consequences without conventional medical treatment or even naturopathic treatment, or any treatment at all, if they just focused hard enough, changed the timeline or their neuronets, or manifested health. And strangely enough, for some people, it worked, while others died pointlessly who might have lived).

And Wisewoman:

I suppose we have gotten off topic here. I would also like to know the reasons you are certain that RSE is not a cult - I have not formed an absolute conviction either way, since I was never there, but judging from postings here, and also based on my communications with a long term student, I do think that there are elements that appear cult like. And, what, in your opinion, is a cult?
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Sad Grandfather
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Unread post by Sad Grandfather »

We are on the same side of the fence. I had never even heard of ramtha, until my daughter got involved and took the whole family with her to Yelm. I defer to you on the Eastern religions, since I have not studied them.

I have learned much from this site regarding the ramtha scam, and the thinking processes that are involved in turning formerly rational people into robots.

Is it a cult? I believe it is a cult for the victims, but for Judy Knight, it is just a VERY profitable SCAM.
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!
Another Dimension60
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Unread post by Another Dimension60 »

"Is it a cult? I believe it is a cult for the victims, but for Judy Knight, it is just a VERY profitable SCAM."
very well put Grandfather.

cult has many definitions and connotations. There are people who create cults sincerely believing in who they think they are and what they're doing. And there are premeditated scams.
In this moment, in this forum, I'd define cult as a group in which you've lost your self will and ability to think clearly, feel honestly, live your life according to what speaks within.
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Sad Grandfather
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Unread post by Sad Grandfather »

Yes, that is my take, also. The processes of mind control were used extensively in POW camps in Korea and Viet Nam. Being in the military during that period we were all briefed on the phenomenen and the tecniques used, which included uncomfortable positions for long periods, continuous repititions, long periods of being blindfolded, etc.

The big difference was the prisoners were subjected to these things by force, torture and intimidation, whereas Judy's subjects are deluded into doing them voluntarily. Apparently, that works even better since a degree of mind control is already accomplished before the "disiplines" are done.
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!
hidesert
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Unread post by hidesert »

What I think some of the difficulty is from the connotation of the four letter word "cult". Maybe going beyond the label of cult and seeing what is transpiring (or in the case of many at RSE, what is not transpiring despite being "true" to the disciplines). A common theme I see throughout is one of betrayal of self which goes along with not "being real". I betrayed my common sense and wasn't being true (or "real") to the true me. The more I was around my friend who interested me in RSE, the more I saw how she was flip, flopping - pretending things are fine (she's still trying to manifest fabulous wealth and her home after 7 years), she complains and berates about those who aren't in RSE (I'm one of her complaints now), ramtha said this, ramtha said that (seems that her truth is what ever Ramtha said and she quotes him a lot! - interesting that it is not what she says ...or thinks), she hangs pictures of Ram in her house, she associates primarily with school members, she thinks Ramtha controls the weather and see her every move, she's afraid to expand beyond the school for further learning as well as get readings...I could go on and on. If you review the LARSE video in which joe speaks of the 4 characteristics(behaviors) of a cult - compliance in a group, dependance upon a leader, avoiding descent, and devalueing outsiders. I definitely see those in RSE (even though RSE teaches that they are not a cult because they teach you that you are a God).
Just like Another dimension wrote..I see a lot of lost of self will, ability to think CLEARLY, FEEL honestly, and live life in according to what speaks from within (instead of fear of earth changes, economic collapse, etc.),. The sad thing about it is that those involved can't even comprehend these issues about the school or themselves because they believe they are thinking and living right. The hardest thing to change is a belief and we often have to come to the realization our own self in order to change it...if others try, often people will doggedly hold on to the belief despite its destructive tendencies ONLY because someone else challenged them.
Call it or label it what ever you want, but look at the behavior of those in the school as well as the school. Is it healthy and enhancing to one's well-being? It wasn't to mine even though I did learn a lot, but what I learned most was AFTER I left.
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