JZR went on and on and on about not using drugs or pot but then has everyone drink wine? That doesn't make any sense.
I don't know how you feel about this site but I thought it was interesting:
http://www.askrealjesus.com/K_JESUS_ANS ... amtha.html
Pot and wine
Pot and wine
Keep the greater good at heart.
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Lost in Space
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Dear Freenow:
That site, What Would Jesus Say, is one I stumbled on a while back, but could never find again. It's pretty good, really.
But I can think of way in which it does make sense, encouraging wine drinking as opposed to pot smoking. One is legal, the other is not. The administrators of RSE do not want legal consequences for the school. So, legality.
Another possible reason - Wine drinking in reasonable amounts is accepted by many faiths, and former members of those faiths, on joining RSE, will be more likely to accept such a practice. (The fact that it may be taken to wild excess at some ceremonies is accepted by those who already have come to believe). So, value orthodoxy.
And, if people are overdisciplined, they are likely to rebel, and go off whatever is offered. A current, practicing student of RSE spends hours practicing rigid and sometimes stressful disciplines. This can cause them to feel discomfort which can lead to doubt. Allowing/encouraging them to let loose at wine ceremonies makes them less uncomfortable. So, a psychological safety valve.
Cynical short answer? JZ knows her marks.
That site, What Would Jesus Say, is one I stumbled on a while back, but could never find again. It's pretty good, really.
But I can think of way in which it does make sense, encouraging wine drinking as opposed to pot smoking. One is legal, the other is not. The administrators of RSE do not want legal consequences for the school. So, legality.
Another possible reason - Wine drinking in reasonable amounts is accepted by many faiths, and former members of those faiths, on joining RSE, will be more likely to accept such a practice. (The fact that it may be taken to wild excess at some ceremonies is accepted by those who already have come to believe). So, value orthodoxy.
And, if people are overdisciplined, they are likely to rebel, and go off whatever is offered. A current, practicing student of RSE spends hours practicing rigid and sometimes stressful disciplines. This can cause them to feel discomfort which can lead to doubt. Allowing/encouraging them to let loose at wine ceremonies makes them less uncomfortable. So, a psychological safety valve.
Cynical short answer? JZ knows her marks.
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Whatchamacallit
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Hi Free,
Beyond the website itself, or the source of the message, I would share my own thoughts. It seems to me that it just makes sense, that even if we would stretch and say that wine/pot could be mixed and it was safe to do, for eliciting a mystical experience, it still begs a question.
Why would someone encourage such a thing in a diverse audience, when people have such a variety of backgrounds ? Some of the RSE customers were/are former alcoholics, who were at high risk of a setback, if they drank in a wine ceremony ? Or that doing so would elicit the abhorrent behaviors in adults (the sexual promiscuity on the property, with children present), fighting, puking all over, swearing and related vulgar talk (also in front of children). These are behaviors that a human being should have been able to forsee from such a mixed and diverse audience.
Certainly any "channeled being" would see it, too.
But it happened. It's not okay. At least, imo it's not. At that point, I personally don't care if there is a Ramtha. It no longer matters. If "he" would allow, or encourage, such events to unfold, then it's not something I care to support.
What I'm trying to say here, and I'm not sure I'm doing it well, is that it's like my mother said when I was growing up; look at the ACTIONS, not what the person says. I think, at least some of us have put those "in spirit", upon some pedestal in our minds. We've given them credit for being "evolved", when in fact, they have not proven HOW evolved they are. I don't care if it's Uncle Fred, Aunt Ethel, Ramtha, The Man In The Moon, or the Tooth Fairy ! If they don't ACT like they are mature, loving, responsible, trustworthy, honest and forthright "people", I don't want to be in their company. I don't care if they have a physical body or not ! Some of have assumed that those without bodies, are "spiritual". Spiritual equating evolved, and it's just not the case.
All my opinion. :o
Beyond the website itself, or the source of the message, I would share my own thoughts. It seems to me that it just makes sense, that even if we would stretch and say that wine/pot could be mixed and it was safe to do, for eliciting a mystical experience, it still begs a question.
Why would someone encourage such a thing in a diverse audience, when people have such a variety of backgrounds ? Some of the RSE customers were/are former alcoholics, who were at high risk of a setback, if they drank in a wine ceremony ? Or that doing so would elicit the abhorrent behaviors in adults (the sexual promiscuity on the property, with children present), fighting, puking all over, swearing and related vulgar talk (also in front of children). These are behaviors that a human being should have been able to forsee from such a mixed and diverse audience.
Certainly any "channeled being" would see it, too.
But it happened. It's not okay. At least, imo it's not. At that point, I personally don't care if there is a Ramtha. It no longer matters. If "he" would allow, or encourage, such events to unfold, then it's not something I care to support.
What I'm trying to say here, and I'm not sure I'm doing it well, is that it's like my mother said when I was growing up; look at the ACTIONS, not what the person says. I think, at least some of us have put those "in spirit", upon some pedestal in our minds. We've given them credit for being "evolved", when in fact, they have not proven HOW evolved they are. I don't care if it's Uncle Fred, Aunt Ethel, Ramtha, The Man In The Moon, or the Tooth Fairy ! If they don't ACT like they are mature, loving, responsible, trustworthy, honest and forthright "people", I don't want to be in their company. I don't care if they have a physical body or not ! Some of have assumed that those without bodies, are "spiritual". Spiritual equating evolved, and it's just not the case.
All my opinion. :o
If I had been there during something like that I would have walked out. At least slept in my car with the doors locked. Honestly that really upsets me. I thought RSE would be above that kind of behavior. I'm just glad I never saw it.
Mr Simmons has stated repeatedly on BTO something like, "Everyone who writes unpleasant things about the school have never been there". Imagine my surprise when I found this forum and most of us HAVE been there!
Mr Simmons has stated repeatedly on BTO something like, "Everyone who writes unpleasant things about the school have never been there". Imagine my surprise when I found this forum and most of us HAVE been there!
Keep the greater good at heart.
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Tyger
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free2ctruth
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Tyger:
I spent many hours today searching to confirm the ancient Hebrew meaning of Ramtha. I could not confirm your comment that it translates to Satan at all (yet). Could you please provide some links for everyone? What can I say, I'm partial to a factual presentation that EMF appears to want to stick to. We all know our searches are as good as what we punch in to Google.......help me please to confirm your comment.
Thanks in advance.
Free2ctruth
I spent many hours today searching to confirm the ancient Hebrew meaning of Ramtha. I could not confirm your comment that it translates to Satan at all (yet). Could you please provide some links for everyone? What can I say, I'm partial to a factual presentation that EMF appears to want to stick to. We all know our searches are as good as what we punch in to Google.......help me please to confirm your comment.
Thanks in advance.
Free2ctruth
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Lost in Space
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- Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Personally, I think pot is less harmful than alcohol - but, it's illegal so for me out of the question.
But, alcohol is actually more adictive, so people who have problems with alcohol should not be encouraged to drink, or made to feel left out if they don't. That would not be a sound business practice.
Tyger, I too tried to find a site, any site, where "Ramtha" is shown as synonymous with "Satan", and, not bragging, but searching for the meanings of words is part of my job. Was that a metaphor? Or am I just not looking in the right place?
But, alcohol is actually more adictive, so people who have problems with alcohol should not be encouraged to drink, or made to feel left out if they don't. That would not be a sound business practice.
Tyger, I too tried to find a site, any site, where "Ramtha" is shown as synonymous with "Satan", and, not bragging, but searching for the meanings of words is part of my job. Was that a metaphor? Or am I just not looking in the right place?
I went to see a friend who was a current student that I had met on the net. I had no idea what the wine ceremony was all about so he told me about it. Apparently the first glass (full to the top) has to be drunk all in one gulp.
So, I started drinking red wine at home and it was really, really good and before you know it I had gone through two cases......... I haven't had any since that last bottle.
So, I started drinking red wine at home and it was really, really good and before you know it I had gone through two cases......... I haven't had any since that last bottle.
Keep the greater good at heart.
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Tyger
free2ctruth wrote:Tyger:
I spent many hours today searching to confirm the ancient Hebrew meaning of Ramtha. I could not confirm your comment that it translates to Satan at all (yet). Could you please provide some links for everyone? What can I say, I'm partial to a factual presentation that EMF appears to want to stick to. We all know our searches are as good as what we punch in to Google.......help me please to confirm your comment.
Thanks in advance.
Free2ctruth
Uh ....dude. It was a metaphorical writer's tool and joke, but only obviously so. Maybe you need to get out more.
free2ctruth
I make no excuses for Tyger's humor but you will soon learn that some of his posts follow the advice in the Talking Heads 1984 movie "Stop Making Sense."
You must have come across something interesting in your hours of search? Perhaps his joke had some value? Think of a zen koan.....
My take is Ramtha as a name is merely a product of JZ's quirky mind expanding on a Hindu word for God, ei, Ram--
the Ram----tha God--God tha---ramtha. If JZ has a better explanation she better speak up because I'm going to run with this one.
I make no excuses for Tyger's humor but you will soon learn that some of his posts follow the advice in the Talking Heads 1984 movie "Stop Making Sense."
You must have come across something interesting in your hours of search? Perhaps his joke had some value? Think of a zen koan.....
My take is Ramtha as a name is merely a product of JZ's quirky mind expanding on a Hindu word for God, ei, Ram--
the Ram----tha God--God tha---ramtha. If JZ has a better explanation she better speak up because I'm going to run with this one.
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Whatchamacallit
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Hi All,
I think I can help with this "What is the meaning of the name Ramtha?" question.
Here's the bologna we were told in audience. Ramtha means father. We are Ramtha's people. He is like a father/guardian over us. Like a spiritual (God) father.
So there you have it. That's what we were told.
The problem is, "he" is an abusive father. Time to move on out and get our own place to live.
I think I can help with this "What is the meaning of the name Ramtha?" question.
Here's the bologna we were told in audience. Ramtha means father. We are Ramtha's people. He is like a father/guardian over us. Like a spiritual (God) father.
So there you have it. That's what we were told.
The problem is, "he" is an abusive father. Time to move on out and get our own place to live.
We were also told that a Ram's Horns were worn as a 'crown' of (acknowledged) wisdom
And that is also where the notion of beings (demons? satan?) with horns coming out of their heads were symbolic representations of wisdom. Later, some 32,000 years later, the horns were changed into light, halos, auric fields in paintings.
So when you see goat-men, or men with horns curling/coming off their (kingdom of heaven) brains, it was that they had ?wned experience into wisdom.
The whole wise-Father archetype. In Tarot cards, there is a card with same rams horns, which was also with pentagram. (told it was the true symbol of the Christ).
See&E
And that is also where the notion of beings (demons? satan?) with horns coming out of their heads were symbolic representations of wisdom. Later, some 32,000 years later, the horns were changed into light, halos, auric fields in paintings.
So when you see goat-men, or men with horns curling/coming off their (kingdom of heaven) brains, it was that they had ?wned experience into wisdom.
The whole wise-Father archetype. In Tarot cards, there is a card with same rams horns, which was also with pentagram. (told it was the true symbol of the Christ).
See&E
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Lost in Space
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You will note that that Tarot card of which you spoke is number 13, "The Devil". But, pentacles (not pentagrams exacty) stand for earth, the material realm, prosperity and commerce...very fitting symbol in this case, lol.
About the pentagram - The true meaning of the five pointed star is pagan, but not "demonic" - our existence on earth revolves around five points, earth, air, fire, water and SPIRIT.
Horns are traditional symbols of masculine fertility. So is the Ram.
The meaning of the card is that we, in our soul's journey, are caught between the physical and the spiritual urges, both of which are our birthright, and so, since we are flesh, the material plane beckons - but the warning is that we can go astray with too much emphasis on the physical at the expense of the spiritual.
No, I am not a Pagan, or a Satanist. Just think that Pagans are misunderstood.
About the pentagram - The true meaning of the five pointed star is pagan, but not "demonic" - our existence on earth revolves around five points, earth, air, fire, water and SPIRIT.
Horns are traditional symbols of masculine fertility. So is the Ram.
The meaning of the card is that we, in our soul's journey, are caught between the physical and the spiritual urges, both of which are our birthright, and so, since we are flesh, the material plane beckons - but the warning is that we can go astray with too much emphasis on the physical at the expense of the spiritual.
No, I am not a Pagan, or a Satanist. Just think that Pagans are misunderstood.
I learned in art classes, Michelangelo's famous scultpure of Moses with "horns" on his head was actually a mistake caused by a mistranslation of "rays' or halo on face as "horns in the Latin Vulgate Bible.
http://www.romaviva.com/Santa-Maria-Maggiore/Moses.jpg
"The mistake in translation is possible because the word "karan" in the Hebrew language can mean either "radiated (light)" or "grew horns"."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_(Michelangelo)
Many non-Jewish and non-Christian gods had "horns" as symbols of power, fertility, etc. Nothing wrong with that but to the Judeo-Christians these were false gods, therefore "of satan".
Also, the typical devil in artistic images was a splitfooted, horned human with a tail, in other words "less than human" or lacking the basic human morals and ethics.
Intertesting, watcha, that JZ calls ramtha "father" but no one calls her mother. Elizabeth Prophet was called "Mother" by all CUT devotees like Edna Ballard of th I AM cult was called "Mama." They called Guy Ballard "Beloved Daddy." It is as if JZ wanted to reinvent both her real father and control the "male" Father God of the Gospel. She ended up with a "strange brew".
Strange Brew (Eric Clapton, Gail Collins and Felix Pappalardi) Unichappell Music (BMI) & Careers-BMG Music Publishing nc. (BMI) 1967
"Strange brew -- killin' what's inside of you
She's a witch of trouble in electric blue
In her own mad mind she's in love with you,
With you
Now what you gonna do?
Strange brew -- killin' what's inside of you
She's some kind of demon messin' in the glue
If you don't watch out it'll stick to you
To you
What kind of fool are you?
Strange brew -- killin' what's inside of you
On a boat in the middle of a raging sea
She would make a scene for it all to be
Ignored
And wouldn't you be bored?
Strange brew -- killin' what's inside of you.
Strange brew, strange brew, strange brew, strange brew.
Strange brew -- killin' what's inside of you."
http://www.romaviva.com/Santa-Maria-Maggiore/Moses.jpg
"The mistake in translation is possible because the word "karan" in the Hebrew language can mean either "radiated (light)" or "grew horns"."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_(Michelangelo)
Many non-Jewish and non-Christian gods had "horns" as symbols of power, fertility, etc. Nothing wrong with that but to the Judeo-Christians these were false gods, therefore "of satan".
Also, the typical devil in artistic images was a splitfooted, horned human with a tail, in other words "less than human" or lacking the basic human morals and ethics.
Intertesting, watcha, that JZ calls ramtha "father" but no one calls her mother. Elizabeth Prophet was called "Mother" by all CUT devotees like Edna Ballard of th I AM cult was called "Mama." They called Guy Ballard "Beloved Daddy." It is as if JZ wanted to reinvent both her real father and control the "male" Father God of the Gospel. She ended up with a "strange brew".
Strange Brew (Eric Clapton, Gail Collins and Felix Pappalardi) Unichappell Music (BMI) & Careers-BMG Music Publishing nc. (BMI) 1967
"Strange brew -- killin' what's inside of you
She's a witch of trouble in electric blue
In her own mad mind she's in love with you,
With you
Now what you gonna do?
Strange brew -- killin' what's inside of you
She's some kind of demon messin' in the glue
If you don't watch out it'll stick to you
To you
What kind of fool are you?
Strange brew -- killin' what's inside of you
On a boat in the middle of a raging sea
She would make a scene for it all to be
Ignored
And wouldn't you be bored?
Strange brew -- killin' what's inside of you.
Strange brew, strange brew, strange brew, strange brew.
Strange brew -- killin' what's inside of you."
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Whatchamacallit
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Joe said, "Intertesting, watcha, that JZ calls ramtha "father" but no one calls her mother."
Oh, gosh.
Judith was cited as the next christ - the first female christ. Not mother. LOL
If she is a christ-in-flesh, and that's the best we have to look toward, forget it. Stop the planet and let me off.
If that's not the height of insanity, what is ? As I'm sure others can verify on here, this is what was stated; Judith as THE Magic Number One - a christ. Both honors, since Audrey had her Magic Number One status revoked. Can't have competition, you know. Christs can't handle that.
Oh, gosh.
Judith was cited as the next christ - the first female christ. Not mother. LOL
If she is a christ-in-flesh, and that's the best we have to look toward, forget it. Stop the planet and let me off.
If that's not the height of insanity, what is ? As I'm sure others can verify on here, this is what was stated; Judith as THE Magic Number One - a christ. Both honors, since Audrey had her Magic Number One status revoked. Can't have competition, you know. Christs can't handle that.
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littlewiseone
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This actually makes a lot of sense! I guess we'll never really know the answer since I doubt JZ will be telling anytime soon... unless she's reading this board and the next thing you know there's a teaching on the origins of ramthat's name, lol.joe sz wrote:My take is Ramtha as a name is merely a product of JZ's quirky mind expanding on a Hindu word for God, ei, Ram--
the Ram----tha God--God tha---ramtha. If JZ has a better explanation she better speak up because I'm going to run with this one.
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make...
- The Beatles
- The Beatles
Roswell mind controlled to tolerate wine
Just a hunch, if from roswell maybe she got introduced into a psychic mind controll program. And through hypnosis she was given the program to tolerate alcohol in mass quantities. Just as one could be given the program to tollerate pain, hold her piss for hours, and ignore tiredness. Were probably part of a program to increase our psychic powers and manifest more terrorism by focusing on the goverments alien agenda plan.
and as there are many bush clones maybe her physical changes were from changing out her worn out body.
1. a new clone without aids
2. a new clone without bad lungs
3. a new clone without a bad liver
4. a new clone with more muscles
5. and soon to come a clone from a tissue sample saved from when she was 35, that should increase revenue.
If the virgin mother can be holgraphically projected, can orbs be holographically projected in mass quantiy?
and as there are many bush clones maybe her physical changes were from changing out her worn out body.
1. a new clone without aids
2. a new clone without bad lungs
3. a new clone without a bad liver
4. a new clone with more muscles
5. and soon to come a clone from a tissue sample saved from when she was 35, that should increase revenue.
If the virgin mother can be holgraphically projected, can orbs be holographically projected in mass quantiy?
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Wakeup-Call
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- Location: Washington
You know, this is absolutely creepiest possible scenario of my whole Ramtha experience... that it is a government mind control experiment.
I try not to dwell on that possibility and leave it as JZ is a greedy, compassionless, narcissitic sociopath.
Well, as Ramtha once said..."This is one entity that got out."
I try not to dwell on that possibility and leave it as JZ is a greedy, compassionless, narcissitic sociopath.
Well, as Ramtha once said..."This is one entity that got out."
Hi truster,
I like your theories, I never really linked government mind control programs and her cult together. In the light of 'Project Bluebeam' I have no doubt that orb-like objects can be holographically projected, that would be a piece of cake in comparison to more complex forms like Madonna figures and such. Although it remains questionable for me of how orbs could be projected in her audience hall, I think she would require some sort of holographical projectors for this.
Anyways, I'm looking forward to more of your posts. ;)
I like your theories, I never really linked government mind control programs and her cult together. In the light of 'Project Bluebeam' I have no doubt that orb-like objects can be holographically projected, that would be a piece of cake in comparison to more complex forms like Madonna figures and such. Although it remains questionable for me of how orbs could be projected in her audience hall, I think she would require some sort of holographical projectors for this.
Anyways, I'm looking forward to more of your posts. ;)
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Whatchamacallit
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"ramtha" has referred to the school on a number of occasions as "his experiment". he said that the government is very well aware, as are the aliens who watch the school/students to garner data.
maybe it is a mind control experiment. it wouldn't surprise me.
what did it for me was the tank. it just struck me very strongly that we were all human rats in a maze. period. i stopped going to the tank and i was willing to get kicked out. unfortunately for me, i didn't get kicked out. those folks who refused to go (a rare few) were sent to the name field to do field work.
maybe it is a mind control experiment. it wouldn't surprise me.
what did it for me was the tank. it just struck me very strongly that we were all human rats in a maze. period. i stopped going to the tank and i was willing to get kicked out. unfortunately for me, i didn't get kicked out. those folks who refused to go (a rare few) were sent to the name field to do field work.