Christ ??

[voidgate]

J.Z. Knight is a fortune hunter.

There are no suitable trophies or prizes in the arena for outstanding paranormal accomplishment. The only reward is fleeting recognition.

Anywhere else on the planet would give a suitable prize for accomplishing the equivalent of finding the void in the Tank or achieving the bull's eye in archery.........assuming of course that the endeavour was accomplished truthfully and fairly.

There is a mean old man asscociated with Christmas. His name is SCROOGE..........

On the contrary J.Z. Knight gives prizes for people not associated with the great work to pursue further study in normal education. This education gives long term value to the recipients whilst the money has come from people whom J.Z. Knight has taken the value from.

In essence it is passing on stolen goods.

The prizes also serve to alter the outlook of the local community in J.Z.'s favour.

In my life I make the best possible choices for my happiness under the financial constraint I am under due to having been involved with RSE. JZ has used the money for her investments and the well being of her family. Essentially many are not far from being turned out on the streets.

The observable acts of J. Z. Knight are of the destruction of life not the resurrection thereof.

[voidgate]

I do not know what a Christ is. I have never ever heard "Ramtha" or anyone at RSE define what it is. I have never met anyone else involved in the teachings who could tell me either.

I only know what is publicly available on this planet. Namely that Jesus healed the sick, raised the dead, walked on water and divided fishes and loaves to feed multitudes. He also turned the water into wine at a wedding.

I have heard that students in RSE consider JZ is a Christ. Others have said it has been presented that she will be the first female Christ. I have never attended any event or heard anything that validates if she has officially been presented as that or not.

The wine at RSE comes out of bottles bought in town. It does not come from some miraculous transformation of the tap water. To my knowledge no one has ever seen JZ give a demonstration of walking on top of the water in her swimming pool.

Has anyone heard of an event where the students don't have to bring or buy their food but rather a brilliant exhibition of feeding the many from a mere handful of food is given?

I have never heard of a dead student being brought back to life at RSE.

I have never seen or heard of JZ giving a demonstration of miraculous healing that lasts and is sound evidence to many observers.

It was stated on this site that those in the blue college are wanting to be Christs and that is the purpose of the group. Are there subcategories of Christs? Maybe there is a Christ at Ultra violet level, X Ray, Gamma and Infinite ? Those at RSE are no where near the accomplishments of Jesus. Who wants to be first to test out the swimming pool, or better yet Shark Bay ???????

If anyone knows what it is I would be most interested to know. Not just the modern church's version but the ancient education version which is what the RSE teachings are purportedly based upon.

[G2G]

Excellent post. All I know is that JZR is certainly no Jesus. I still consider myself christian although not in the traditional sense. I do not believe there need be a go-between as far as me and God, whatever God may be. I feel cheated in that so many of the teachings were purged, burned, or hidden by the church in power. Further, "Krishna" in the hindu tradition was once spelled, "Christna." Why was this changed? What else was changed in order to maintain power over the people? (something that continues at RSE although it is presented as "freedom.")

But I'll reiterate. JZR is certainly no Jesus. Your post raises some very interesting issues. One thing I've wondered about is why did she retain Jeff's last name? Is it because "JZ" + "Knight" sounds very similar to "Jesus Christ?" She had no children by Jeff, so why do her children utilize Jeff's last name as well?

I know I've gone a bit off-topic - apologies. Just random thoughts provoked by the posts.

[David McCarthy]

[quote="G2G"]

One thing I've wondered about is why did she retain Jeff's last name? Is it because "JZ" + "Knight" sounds very similar to "Jesus Christ?" She had no children by Jeff, so why do her children utilize Jeff's last name as well?


Interesting post's...
Thank you G2G and Voidgate..

J.D. Hampton does kinda fall flat compared to 'JZ Knight'.
and marketing is the name of her game..
and Yep..
'"JZ" + "Knight" has a similar ring to "Jesus Christ?".

By renaming herself J.Z. Knight conveniently removes all traces of her family name 'Judith Darleen Hampton.
I suspect Judith is ashamed of her family name, born from her childhood traumas.
and her way of "letting go of the past"...! an RSE mantra.
Parents to this day still ask "Ramtha" to name their children for them...Yikes.

During the past twenty years a host of hierarchical groups have come and gone within RSE.
With devotees vying to gain entrance to the inner sanctums of RSE and dinner at the Chateau...
Successful candidates would often be renamed by ?Ramtha? .

Here are a few examples..

Audrey Wolf = 'Grandmother"
Lars Olson= 'Roses"
Linda Evans= 'Lady star"
Debbie Christie= 'Master Music"
Anne Marie Benstom = 'Old Women"
Mike Wright= 'Angel"
Gary Craig= 'Garola"
James Flick= 'Blue Body"
Michael Ledwith= 'Father"
Mark Vincent='Soul Man"

And so on..

Demonstrating the dissociation complex in full swing at RSE..
orchestrated by 'JZ Knight" daughtren of 'Ramtha"..

David= 'The Exorcist".

Very dark chuckle...

[wolfman]

"Jesus" is a fraudulent creation using Qabalahic holographic symbolism as a tool of creating an idea......or golem..... using a system of numbers, texts, myth and sacred geometry to create an illusion that is vampireistic by its very nature.

Judi represents this fraudulentness by her very actions of channeling jesus.

Ramtha......a.k.a. the "random access memory" ..... represents that which is forgotten in self due to the worship of the golem.

The golem is a form of self deprecation that lies within those who wish to know the truth but never want to get past "Having A Good Time".

ALL THAT IS TAUGHT AT RSE IS FRIVOLOUS UNTILL THE GOLEM IS ILLUMINATED AND MADE VOID AND NULLIFIED AND CANCELED OUT BY THE FRUSTRATED INDIVIDUAL.

This is why Judi will never lead anybody to anything except frustration.......As did the illusion of the created jesus did.........eventually.

Only the frustrated individual can nullify his/her golem......and the BIG test for RSE'ers is to finally see this and "get out of Dodge Town".

If not........FRUSTRATION IS YOUR ONLY PAYMENT.

God Damn I'm Good ! (^) And frickin brilliant too! (*)

More so than any lawyer that judi can conjure up.

[Whatchamacallit]

"Parents to this day still ask "Ramtha" to name their children for them...Yikes.
"

What is also sad, if not outright pathetic that parents would turn to someone outside of themselves for naming their child/ren, is the names themselves. The names chosen are waaaaaay out there. Should these children grow up and leave the cult, they are going to be stigmatized by those names. At least they can change them to something they like !!! Jane and John Doe starts looking more appealing than Zeus for a 30 year old man. I've even heard some of the parents admit they weren't thrilled with the names "Ramtha" gave them, but...this is yet another example of how far afield someone's mind can get. They will forgo their own preferences for their own child - TO PLEASE RAMTHA ... such good FOLLOWERS they are.

[Whatchamacallit]

Wolfman,

You might find this website of interest: http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/exist.html

[voidgate]

There is no evidence that JZ Knight is a Christ, or anywhere near it, and there is no itinerary provided on what the levels of study are to become one.

Students of the work are infatuated with something that is not defined.

Regarding Watcha's post:

The only naming of a baby at RSE I am aware of is that a girl baby was called "Moses." A biblical name. J . Z. Knight has a Christian background so the question is, "Who really named the baby?."

[Another Dimension60]

JZ has been called a Christ by Ramtha since at least the 80's - or at the least, someone with a consciousness so great as to be able to handle the even greater consciousness of Ramtha. = which makes the schizophrenic separation of JZ from Ramtha in people's minds even quirkier .... That is - aside from the obvious lack of miraculous powers, nothing of JZs behavior as CEO or in her personal activities demonstrate love, compassion, understanding, peace making, kindness etc.
Even some Christian scholars and theologians point out that Christ was NOT Jesus' last name, as is soooo often used. Rather, it's more accurate to say, re the story, Jesus who became a Christ/attained Christ Consciousness. Nor, if one understands the story, is it essential that Jesus actually lived or not -- his story is in the tradition of savior stories - at the least Jesus pointed to a new way of relating to the Divine - without the need of sacrifices, priests, and ritual behaviors - Here is not the place to discuss the essence of Christianity, bastardized by men for centuries. Whatever "Christ Consciousness" means - hopefully, at the least, representing the best of behavior, JZ doesn't demonstrate it.

[tree]

There have been several children named in the school.
Mirabeau, Sir Karli, Dharma, Pyrrenees, Lyra,Kieras, just to name a few. I do know of a few others, but their bizarre origin of name escapes me
at the moment.
More will come to mind, I am sure.

nothing of JZs behavior as CEO or in her personal activities demonstrate love, compassion, understanding, peace making, kindness etc.

I can vouch for that. What CEO does nothing about a rapist who is still employed by her?

[wolfman]

Tree......... I was at an event when Random Access Memory (RAM) named a baby not yet born after Marie Laveau, the voodoo queen of Orleans.

[tree]

wolf-
ah, yes, I forgot about that one. And that JZ herself would be the holy godmother and teach this child great things personally.
That was Jaemie and Collette'a last baby.
One more comes to mind, Duke Cavaras. They call him Duke. His parents left for New York about 2 years ago (because they could not make end$ meet in Yelm) only to rush back so
that their now school age son could attend CSE. ack!

I can't imagine what it would be like to beg by the great hall door 4 asking for a name for my child.
Then years later, find out that the entire thing is a charade.
And now my teenaged girl is named Moses.

[G2G]

""Dharma, Pyrrenees, Lyra,Kieras,""

Looks to me at least in some cases, jrk has a preference for names with the "eeeer" sound, not to mention her "borrowing" from Sanskrit, etc. "Kieras" for example, is a derivative of both a celtic name and a sanskrit or hindi name. It means "ray of sunshine." "Sir Duke? Hello, group counseling, I'm a 15 year old girl and my name is Moses!"

Lucas borrowed from sanskrit for some of his names (and even make-believe language for those furry creatures - "accha" means yes in hindi. Padme refers to compassion. Maybe Jzk has many language books and just selects words of which she likes the sound.
Poor kids.

[tree]

what JZR told the parents of Keiras was that it meant "stream of clear water."

And to segue into JZR changing the 'meaning ' of things....
how about defining ailments of the body and their attitudinal derivatives?

for instance, Louise Hay says knee means flexibility.If you have a knee injury, you are having a problem with
facing a current situation and not being able to be flexible.
JZR told my neighbor it meant: she was wrought and insecurity.

hmmmm
make things up as you go along.
Even AFTER people point it out that it is not consistant.

For more matters of inconsistancy, I will post one on the Assay 2008 thread.

[Whatchamacallit]

I had several babies while in RSE. I never, ever wanted JZR to name my kids for me. Yuck. First of all, I'm their mother and am not going to let MY babies be named by anyone else, including JZR. That's between my husband and me. I never gave JZR that much power of decision making, at least. Nor did I think such Names (burdens) were welcomed by me (or my kids). I couldn't in any lifetime allow my children to bear the (my opinion) horrid names that they would then have to endure throughout childhood and adulthood - or - at least go to court and have them changed !!! I think that the trend of .... almost a status symbol to some that they got the personal "attention"???.... of having the RAM name one's baby also shows how much "power" (you know what I mean) that even parents, will give away to JZR. It think it's frightening. Whatever "goes" in the school, has seemed acceptable to too many "parents". What comes to mind, is with the repeated use of curse language by one who should be modeling exemplary behavior (JZR), using the "F" word SO many times...telling people to "F you, or F off". Well, the result of that was huge. MANY children in the school thought nothing of telling anyone (adult or child) just those words, whenever something didn't suit them. I heard it, others heard it, it was addressed from the stage and JZRamtha BLAMED THE PARENTS FOR NOT PARENTING THEIR CHILDREN PROPERLY AND FOR BEING ROTTEN EXAMPLES BY SWEARING IN FRONT OF THEIR CHILDREN !

Think I'm kidding ? I'm not. How's THAT for bold hypocrisy and lack of responsibility and accountability and INTEGRITY on the part of JZ and/or Ramtha ? HUGE.

If JZ Knight is all we have to hold, for hope in this world, because she's a CHRIST (hahahahahahaha.....not), we're screwed. The standard is too low for my expectation.

[littlewiseone]

If JZ Knight is all we have to hold, for hope in this world, because she's a CHRIST (hahahahahahaha.....not), we're screwed. The standard is too low for my expectation.

I had to laugh out loud at this... so true!

[Whatchamacallit]

LOL, yeah, LWO - it is true.

Another thing popped into my mind. When Moses was named, it was stated by JZRamtha that one day she would raise the dead. First, she needs to learn basic manners, and maturity. I've heard from others, and seen plenty, where that is lacking. Not being mean here, just honest obseravations about specific circumstances that I've witnessed about that kid's unruly, rude behavior. When she was younger, nobody ever said "no" to her, so she was a little terror, and people refused to even babysit for her. The "special" (not) little girl had a hefty attitude of entitlement, which wasn't her fault, but fostered in her. I overheard, in later years, her parents yelling at her (especially her mother, whose face would crack if she ever smiled, and who was heard to gossip and be quite rude, arrogant if not angry, a number of times). If she had been raised properly when young, she would have become a more well rounded individual. As a matter of fact, at one event, JZRamtha actually addressed this issue in audience.

I bet Tree knows more about this, especially having lived locally and seen/heard more than I ever did. Though, what I saw/heard was enough for me to have a taste of someone I wanted nothing to do with. As far as I know, they are all still current, and JZR named the parents as RSE teachers, and upheld them as a "married couple", which is rare in the school. That's simply laughable, given the tone of the teachings.

[G2G]

I remember going into the vending area/water/restroom/luggage area back hallway so many times during an evening session, even when J was supposedly "R." The young teens were running all around back and through the hallway connecting the the men's and women's area. I heard some really foul language from the mouths of these kids. There was no one, no adult overseeing them. They were left to their own. I don't know if they had wine or not, but it was enough to see how unruly they were behaving, while their parents sad attentive to "the teachings" or ramblings of whatever it is that rambles. I'm not saying all parents allow their young teens to do this, but I did see enough of them and not only one one occasion. It was as though they were having their own unchaperoned party.

[Whatchamacallit]

G2G,

Some of the kids DO have "unchaperoned parties" in that back hallway area. The RSE staff, and JZR have addressed, on a number of occasions, the issue of children abusing the soda machines back there. At one event, it was SO bad that R threatened to ban all children from events. Well, that would have been a favor to them in the way of them not being there, victim to the experiences (teachings/abusive language, etc).

There was also a "talking to", toward the audience, by JZR about the parents who attend week long events and leave their UNDERAGED CHILDREN ALONE AT HOME all that time.

Yet another example of the lack of parenting, possibly due to being under the JZR influence.

[IUB]

This is one area JZ herself, KNOW, better then to do then to call herself - Jesus Christ or, even channeling this 'concept,' created out of the minds of men. Like WACO, if she so much as make the mistake of calling herself Christ..........the U.S. Government will be on that ranch as quick as the so-call cruxifixtion.

Why? because they [the government] know, no such 'entity' [jesus christ] existed, and anyone coming on the scene, claiming to be Jesus Christ will be in violation of homeland security, and will be investigated. Just ask David Kuresh or Koresh, or however his name was spelled. He got burn in hell, here on Earth, by the U.S. Government.

This is where I'm glad the government is on the scene for nut cases and fanactics, thinking they are the 'second coming.'

[tree]

This is where I'm glad the government is on the scene for nut cases and fanactics, thinking they are the 'second coming.'

To take it a step further, other countries, for example Germany, have gov't protocol is place for NOT allowing cults to conduct business
in their country.
The US, and the rest of the world, should pay heed to this wisdom.

Ever wonder why RSE events are held in Belgium and neighboring countries?

[Whatchamacallit]

That's just what this country needs; laws of accountability and validity for religious viewpoints, and/or spiritual viewpoints, to exist in a manner whereby they are accepting public funds. JZ has not proven herself, nor have religions. I haven't seen Ramtha or Jesus standing on any pedestals, proving their credentials BEFORE asking folks to give their words credence and to enact them in one's own life.

The United States would do well to smarten up and follow the lead of other countries who don't allow the likes of JZ Knight and her cronies, to mislead its citizenry with fraudulent practices.

[Another Dimension60]

IUB - There's a big difference between claiming to be Jesus, who became a Christ, and claiming to be A Christ.
(Even some traditional contemporary theologians recognize that Christ wasn't Jesus' last name....)
Ramtha has dubbed JZ a "realized" Christ for 30 years.

[tree]

Ramtha has dubbed JZ a "realized" Christ for 30 years.

This is insane, at best.


___________________

on a side note, while I was working at the Ranch, Blue Body had asked my son if he wanted to get paid to take leaves off of JZ's roof of her house. My son declined because the pay was so crappy. My son's aunt (also aka his other non-custodial-non-child-support-paying-parent) scoffed at his decision. ( I will never forget this...) "WHAT?! You don't want to pull leaves off the next Christ's house??!!! It should be an HONOR!" Where as I said, "Show me the money!!"

[Whatchamacallit]

Tree said, ""WHAT?! You don't want to pull leaves off the next Christ's house??!!! It should be an HONOR!"

Oh, that's so sad. This is such an example of how a person loses (if they ever had a healthy amount of it), their self-esteem, worth, etc., such that they would subjugate their own value in life, in a hierarchal way like that. She clearly has.
As for son, if he wanted the job, fine. If he didn't want the job, fine. It's a JOB. Good for him, knowing that.

[G2G]

What I don't understand is why didn't the "Lord of the Wind" herself just BLOW the leaves off of her roof? One big blow ought to do it. Is the 'tornado' (said to be created by RSE students at the ranch) newspaper story still in the back hallway? Surely, a bit of wind conjured up would be all that was necessary, in reach of any RSE student, much less Judith herself?