May 19, 2008 posted by Voidgate
I am not participating in this website any longer as I am unaware that anyone but myself has taken any sort of legal action whatsoever. I am aware of one person who MIGHT have taken action.
There is a mountain of evidence on this website that is suitable for legal presentation. It is obvious that endless reiteration of the injustices of RSE has minimal impact on their profits, operations or student influx.
The only way to deal with bullies, injustice and fraud is through the law and in this case it is quite obvious that one person cannot do it alone.
May 19, 2008 David McCarthy
Blaming EMF because no one on this board has taken JZ Knight to court
is grossly unfair and divisive?.to say the least.
Your efforts to expose RSE to the Washington State Attorney general is to be applauded? but?
This is a far cry from mounting a full frontal legal suit against JZ Knight.
EMF is first and foremost a recovery forum for former members of RSE.
EMF does not place a lean on any poster to take legal action against RSE.
But those that have the courage and deep pockets to do so?
We do support 100%.
May 19, 2008 Walk in the Park
Let the Ramsters squirm for the hills.
And JZ sitting on top of her pretty throne with no clothes.
The truth will come out.
Mon May 19, 2008 Whatchamacallit
Something to keep in mind about A.G. letters: it's not uncommon for the multiple letters to go back and forth multiple times before action is taken. Writing an intial letter is a beginning; an important first step, but not the last step. Sometimes it does take a year, two or more years, but there does come a day when it comes to fruition.
EMF knows of people (ex students) from other countries, who are not sitting idly by. There are many people playing all sorts of roles toward the same end; shedding light on the dark side of RSE.
May 19, 2008 voidgate
David, I am tired of you twisting my words to suit yourself. I do not consider it is productive to endlessly write without taking some sort of lawful action as I have found the only way to deal with fraud and other criminal acts from people who refuse to comply with decent business practice is through the avenues of law. Whether the outcome works in the USA with its pro religious constitution is unknown to me. The avenue of the AG is free. If numbers don't act then if it works is unknown.
Many former members of RSE can't recover because they are in no position to recover the money they lost in that fraudulent venture. They can't work effectively because they are getting too old, or have poor health and in that position they can never recover the assets and lives they lost without some sort of intervention to get their money back so they can once again do things in life that make them happy. A poor person with little income earning capacity has few choices in life.
My comment about leaving the website has other reasons as well. One is that you are a primary motivating force behind the moderation of this website. On numerous occasions you have tried to subjugate me in preference of someone who writes commentary that very much favours RSE. Like the person who considered RSE was a fraud (their written opinion) but thought JZ Knight deserved all of that money and those that were duped should not be upset about it. Quite plainly a hypocrite with double standards.
I have observed other honest writers getting an onslaught from some of the hypocrites on this website just as I have. This does not promote recovery as you claim because these people are already severely affected in life in a variety of ways and the onslaught of the hypocrites on EMF just ads to it. Being "nice" to hypocrites instead of honest is a religious attitude.
I gave a significant amount of my possessions in the USA to LARSE to assist those who might need them. I don't need to participate on this website under your moderation. I can go where I am treated better.
Sat Jul 05, 2008 Lost in Space
I am an outsider, in the sense that I have never been a student of RSE. You don't need to listen to anything I say, and may question my right to be here in the first place.
But I am someone with a legal/religious studies/social services background who means to be helpful and supportive, and I also have a friend (or, "friends") who are involved in the school...
If you carefully read the legal opinions above, you will see that a lawsuit a) would not be a slam dunk win and b) would likely be costly, and as you yourself have observed, ex-students may find themselves in precarious financial condition. Even with the best will in the world, they would not be in a position to sue the school, and, conversely, the school appears to have vast sums of money with which to mount a legal defense, and enough political clout to destroy or at least damage a would be suer. Even in the event that the school were to be successfully sued, they would just pay damages and continue on their present course. It would be unrealistic at this point to believe that a lawsuit, even a large class-action lawsuit, could make a dent in RSE activities and capital. I can well understand your frustration. It is not a fair world, and the legal system in the U.S. (and elsewhere) has too many loopholes for profiteers.
On a personal note, I question whether David is the right target for your indignation, but then, I have not read all of your posts or his replies which you appear to be referring to.
Sat Jul 05, 2008 Tree
I tend to think similarly to Lost in Space here.
In this thread (and many previous threads) I find David to have been very kind to you voidgate.
especially the one in this particular thread.
And as I stated, I also made a letter of complaint to the attorney general.
I still have not heard back.
And I am not sure, but maybe you missed the thread where I stated that JZ has a lawyer who in currently conducting
an investigation of my allegations against the red guard last year. Might I add, she interviewed all of the current students
who had any thing to say OPPOSING my view BEFORE she interviewed me.
Why, in this country in this day and age , a woman who has been raped has to be put up to such scrutiny and vicious
lies by former friends. People who told the lawyer; " She has ALWAYS wanted that experience. She even made a card
on it." you have GOT to be fng kidding me?!!!
So, just freshly coming out of RSE and the financial and emotional strains, you can see I am not idly sitting by.
Not to mention the entire process of recovery
But maybe if you have some better ideas feel free to post them,And I still agree with Lost in Space,
JZ Knight and RSE are still going to continue rolling on. regardless of what anyone sais or does. Period.
Just like Scientology or even the stragglers left behind in the Church Universal and Triumphant.
I really wish you would stop directing your anger at David.
EMF provides a wide forum for which to address things.
If maybe you stop throwing sand in the sand box at other people, maybe you will see the beautiful castles they are
trying to re-build.
Sun Jul 06, 2008 Lost in Space
As an aside, yes Tree, women who are sexually assaulted are often treated that way, it is not exclusive to RSE. (I was advised by the police not to press charges or pursue legal redress because MY CHARACTER would be attacked in Court, for example - "You shouldn't have lived downtown; you should have chosen a building with better security, you should have had a roomate, learned self defense, been a virgin until you married, etc. etc.". Blech!!! )
And groups such as RSE have a way of overcoming even concerted legal efforts to overtrhow them!! I would be interested to learn just what strategy Voidgate proposes.
Sun Jul 06, 2008 David McCarthy
I would like to clarify voigates statement....
?I gave a significant amount of my possessions in the USA to LARSE to assist those who might need them?.
You asked for my help to remove six containers of your personal effects from a friend?s garage.
with your kind offer to donate the contents towards fundraising for LARSE/EMF?
The containers were not airtight? and everything had become somewhat musty over the years..
Everything was donated? including your ?Ranch gear??. to the ?USBO? community store in Yelm.
I understand your devastation and anger?.
But please be careful?. that the shards from your shattered heart and mind do not cut the innocent? and blind you to those that really care.
Sun Jul 06, 2008 Tree
Sell that stuff on e-bay.
it makes a ton of money.
The students relish "relics".
Sun Jul 06, 2008 Whatchamacallit
I?ve been offline for a while (computer troubles). I?m trying to get caught up reading the posts now.
In sharing my OPINION and understanding of the comments made on this thread in the last few days, I have a few things to say.
It is my opinion that the anger directed toward David is undeserved. I know for a fact that he has talked to me about doing This or That because he was hoping to help Voidgate. He hasn?t ?profited? ANYTHING from her items, and contrarily, he has spent hours attempting to help her recoup some things. I?ve never heard him bashing her, and he has expressed hurt feelings due to comments she has directed at him.
On the one hand, I?m deeply disappointed to see that anger toward him has been used on EMF as a sounding board to lash out at him. Yet, over time, I have read many/most posts that I?ve found genuine attempts to share information and experiences. I?ve also read posts that I have somewhat, or largely disagreed with and do disagree with to this day. I believe that there are some (few/rare) posters on here, that have posted just to attempt to ?muddy the waters?, and that they will be quick to criticize EMF on any level, but that is it all they do. They do not have true interest in dialogue; only mud slinging.
Voidgate believes that ?pro-RSE? posters are among us. That is, yet another OPINION. Some of the people she believes are disingenuous posters, we KNOW are real people, and they ARE ex-students who may not bash RSE 100%, but they don?t believe what happens there is ?okay?, and they don?t ever plan to return. They ARE EX-students. Yet, we cannot PROVE to Voidgate or to anyone that who we know on a personal level, is real. We cannot change a viewpoint of someone, that those ?friends? we have, are not really scamming us and pulling the wool over our eyes.
What really matters here ? Despite occasional accusations to the contrary, we DO allow a lot of slack to be given when it comes to posts remaining intact. We rarely delete a post, and there are some we?d like to delete, because we doubt the sincerity of them. But, they remain. They, too, speak a message of who the poster is, and that is for each of us, as INTELLIGENT ADULTS, to see for ourselves. Also, because we are adults, we have the option of maturely ignoring posting content that we may roll our eyes at. Thank goodness we?re not all clones.
But to shun each poster (we?ve been requested to do so) that is even suspicious (without PROOF, by the way), of being an infiltrator, isn?t going to happen.
If someone wants to post that they loved their events and they loved Ramtha, bully for them. It doesn?t mean that RSE is VALID. It means Something Else (for the reader to decide). There was a time when I had ?fun? at some of my events, and I ?loved? my teacher and the teachings. I ALSO had lots of red flags that stacked up upon a camel?s back until the camel?s back broke, so to speak. Lucky me?it got me out!
I know that David disagreeing, or sharing another viewpoint, was N-O-T intended to subjugate Voidgate. Disagreeing does not equate subjugation. I KNOW that he cares about her. I think if David is ?guilty? of anything, it?s ?caring? TOO much about PEOPLE. I know. I know him very well.
Yes, it is true that some people who leave RSE NEVER get their lives back on track as it used to be prior to RSE. We?ve all been affected in different ways. I don?t have the financial issue, but I have TIME that was lost from being with my very young children that I can never recoup. Ever. It pains me and I?ll never recover from that. All I can do, is make up to them NOW, and hold them as a top priority for giving my TIME to. I THOUGHT I was helping them by learning and evolving. Naive me. SHAME on JZ Knight.
As for legal recourse; JZ has been sued a few times that I know of, and the people that sued her, have WON. One of those lawsuits wasn?t very long ago. It?s not my place to post about it, but perhaps someone else will do so. A small number of people, that I know of, HAVE written to the WA State Attorney General about their belief that RSE defrauds people.
Voidgate has said numerous times that she would no longer be posting on EMF. But, time and again, she has returned. I like Voidgate, though this post may not be appreciated. Yet, I can either feel stifled myself, by not posting MY opinions on this matter, or I can speak honestly and respectfully, which is what this post intends to do. Voidgate, I KNOW you are very angry about your RSE experience and I think we all understand why. But, I also think that others should be able to post opinion that you disagree with, that I disagree with, etc. If/when there is an ongoing problem with posters, despite us trying to privately deal with matters of concern, eventually, we always do deal with what we must. We?re not perfect, nor do we want ?perfection? assigned to us, because we?ll never live up to it. But, we ARE sincere, and doing our very best, knowing full well that we?ll never please everyone ; especially with a loaded topic like exiting a cult like RSE.
Best to you (all),