baird spalding as I knew him

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joe sz
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baird spalding as I knew him

Unread post by joe sz »

Just read a short book, Baird T Spalding As I Knew Him by David Bruton (1954). The author gives us a very friendly but realistic picture of Spalding without buying into his fantasies. The book exposes Spalding as a con-artist who nevertheless did not exploit his devotees--iow, he never started a cult following. He had people believing that he had land holdings all over the world whan in fact he was a mining engineer who only had "claims" to certain mineral rights in places---claims mean nothing and are only on paper unless one develops a business to mine there. Spalding lived till he was 95, a highly energetic man, died alone in his hotel room with around $15 in his pocket and owning an old truck near Phoenix in 1953.
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spalding

Unread post by joe sz »

PS: The Bruton book offers a good bit of personal insight into Spalding's relationship with his publisher Douglas DeVorss. Bruton and DeVorss interacted personally to settle the Spalding estate. What is of interest is that DeVorss seemed to be manipulating Spalding and nthe legend around him all along. Baird was married but had no kids (his wife died shortly before he did) and was very eccentric or "fabulous" as Bruton calls him. DeVorss may have withheld royalties due Spalding from the sales of the Far East series. None sold better the the first book. There was tesnion between Bruton and DeVorss because for one thing DeVorss did not want Bruton to reveal that Spalding did not go to India until after the first book was written. He was afraid sales would drop--it sold in the millions. Bruton reveals the hoax in this book. Douglas DeVorss was murdered in his office later in the same year Spalding died.
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David McCarthy
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Unread post by David McCarthy »

Thanks for that Joe,
Spalding lived till he was 95, a highly energetic man, died alone in his hotel room with around $15 in his pocket and owning an old truck near Phoenix in 1953.
Douglas DeVorss was murdered in his office later in the same year Spalding died.
Fascinating stuff, but its all so sad really.
Makes me wonder how Judith will end her days..

David.
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....
joe sz
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Unread post by joe sz »

I imagine if the Ramtha myth is correct that Judy will be sitting in a kitchen somewhere with her oxygen bottle when she's 80something, and some guy she keeps calling Ramtha will appear to her with a wheelchair ready to take her away.

Spalding was a real oddball it seems. He was 5'6" tall but very fit most of his life. He appeared to have some real knowledge about engineering...this author says that at Spalding's suggestion they placed cooling tubes in the concrete in Hovver damn to accelerate the curing process. Spalding's father designed the first railroad for the Japanese.

The IRS checked him out once because he never filed a return or paid taxes. The agent told a lawyer, "We have never seen anyone live so well on nothing." p 68

"Spalding claimed that DeVorss did not pay him any royalties for a period of 13 years; further that he did not reap any monetary gain for the Fourth Volume."

Apparently, Spalding made very little money as a mining engineer, Devorss did send him checks monthly for around $150-$400 a month. When Spalding finally made his one trip to India in the mid 1930s he told the people with him that a Master would meet them right away. He broke away from his party immediately upon landing, no Master appeared.

I surmise it was then that he hooked up with PB another charlatan [Paul Brunton---not to be confused with this author David Bruton]. Brunton said that Baird S joined him on that trip to India and admitted he only wernt in his "astral body" before to get info for his first book.

Spalding was a consumate storyteller mixing fact with fiction without blinking an eye his whole life.

From everything I read about him and this book confirms it, I think he was a highly functional schizophrenic who may have been hospitalized for mental illness only once for a month or so.
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Unread post by joe sz »

This book by David Bruton on Spalding must be read with care as to the author's pov. Although I could easily ferret out what was factual there is an element of the occult and spiritualism in it. The author makes no claim to pursuing clairvoyance or psi but he was apparently a spiritualist who had many "experiences" and writes about how Baird Spalding "appeared and spoke" to him shortly after he died in 1953. This spooky meeting was a simple exchange to verify matters of estate and opinion. He originally was drawn to Spalding around 1950 because he had read the first Far East book and like so many found it somewhat convincing---but came to the conclusion that Baird made it up.

The author did find a true birthdate for Spalding at May 26, 1872 Kohocton NY which made Spalding 80 and not 95 [or 97] at time of death [the death certif in AZ said 95]. Spalding had an odd habit of adding 2 years to every year of his birth after he reached middle age---only he knew why. He also carried a limited drivers license that listed his birth at 1904!

Spalding's creditors were hounding the author Bruton after Baird died due to the many scams Spalding ran to get people to invest in his numerous mining ventures. My take is that these mining deals were little more than 'ponzi' schemes where Baird was continually stealing from Peters to pay Pauls. Having said that Spalding could talk a blue streeak about mining and minerals and actually went out prospecting all over the place for most of his adult life with equipment but rarely found anything of value. He was quite the loner. He lived in a shack at the end of his life before dying in that hotel. Although he was married, acc to Bruton, nothing more is said of his wife or if he ever spent time with her.
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Unread post by Caterpillar »

Quote from Joe: "From everything I read about him and this book confirms it, I think he was a highly functional schizophrenic who may have been hospitalized for mental illness only once for a month or so."

How true! Reading 'Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East' (recommended reading of RSE) is like reading JZ's 'A State of Mind' book. Some things just don't add up.


Quote from Joe: "The author did find a true birthdate for Spalding at May 26, 1872 Kohocton NY"

But Volume 5 of the book 'Life and Teaching ...' on Page 23 states that Baird was born in India and his father was born there, too.

Volume 6 of this book on Page 17 states that Baird was born in England and went to India when he was aged 4. His family had lived and worked for more than three hundred years in India and the Gobi Desert.

From Volume 1 on Page 10, Baird described how he met Master Emil after being in India for about two years.

From Volume 6 on Page 74, his great grandfather had met Emil soon after he first went to India.

Finally, the 'schizophrenic' bit - From Volume 6 on Page 172, there were three 'Baird Spaldings'. Baird Spalding was Baird Spalding III. His father was II and his grandfather was Spalding I. There was a belief that 'Grandpappy' Baird Spalding I could 'walk in and out' of the body of Spalding III while Spalding III was still in the body. Baird was not aware of 'who' he was. This is supposed to explain the discrepancies in some of his statements.

Judith can use this excuse when Ramtha walks in and out.

Volume 6 on Page 221 also shows a picture of Baird Spalding III in his coffin with a 'noticeable deformity' of his nose due to an atomic radiation burn. This is not evident in other pictures of Baird Spalding.

Caterpillar ??? So much for recommended readings of RSE.
joe sz
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Unread post by joe sz »

cat
the Bruton book indicates that Baird's grandfather "John" Spalding did live in India where Baird's father may have been born. So it is conceivable that Baird "III" had real ties to India. Bruton states that Grandpop John wrote an unpublished manuscript that Baird later used and edited to concoct his first book.

My hunch is that old John Spalding was influenced by the success of the current Theosophical writings about "masters" that Blavastky met in India [her writings from Masters made an initial popular splash in the late 1880s]. Garver's 'Brother of the Third Degree' was popular among elitist seekers in the mid-1890s. There were many others in that fanciful occult novel vein or genre at the time. Think about Baird's dates for his events in first book---1894ish.

People had a hunger to believe in that stuff with blinders on then and apparently they still do today.
Another Dimension60
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Unread post by Another Dimension60 »

Joe said: "People had a hunger to believe in that stuff"... the interesting thing to me is that I grew up being taught "that stuff" - in Sunday School - Jesus would appear and disappear and appear somewhere else, walk on water, feed the 5000 with baskets left over; then there was Philip who the Spirit of God took off; and the additional 'stuff' of "greater things ye shall do".... So believing in Spalding's stories was not so much of a leap.
There's lots of true stories that aren't factual that are the bearers of human wisdom and sacred knowledge.
There's stories like Star Trek that inspired and motivated much of today's technology.
There's information that we learned at the Ranch that is accurate.
There's information that we learned at the Ranch that isn't.
The question for me is - how do we know, how do we distinguish what is valid, and even if not factual nevertheless true. And even if it's true, not get cult-erized with it....
Caterpillar
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A hypothetical question ...

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Quote from Joe: "From everything I read about him and this book confirms it, I think he was a highly functional schizophrenic who may have been hospitalized for mental illness only once for a month or so."


With the above in mind, I have a hypothetical question:

How many of you would have joined RSE if you had met Judith in a psychiatric ward/hospital and she said she was channeling a 35,000 year old being? This is not such an 'unusual' delusion with psychiatric patients. Some can be highly functional with spasmodic episodes which may or may not be observed by others.

The distinction is: When you meet these people in the psych ward/hospital, you are most likely to automatically dismiss everything they say because they are patients. It's the context of meeting them that points to their mental state. However, when you meet these same people at a New Age course, seminar, Psychic Fair, etc they become interesting, fascinating, deep, wise, ethereal or outrageous. But they are still mentally ill. All that has changed is the context in which we have viewed them.

May be the fences and walls that enclose RSE are the walls of the asylum. Judith and staff in this context then become mentally ill patients rather than outrageous beings to be followed!
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Unread post by joe sz »

AD
I follow your logic. That line of argument is obvious and common but it is also a false analogy to compare the myths and miracle stories of a Moses, Buddha, Zoroaster, or Jesus to those claimed by modern day mystics and gurus who can submit to real tests, video taping and so on to prove their powers.

Belief without testing has always been foolish. Whether you believe the Bible miracle stories or not testing is indicated in the Bible: test the spirits; do not believe every prophet, wolves in sheep's clothing, etc.

False prophets in all those ancient cultures were put to death. One could argue that Jesus was put to death for that reason.

When the alleged miracle or spirit could not be tested then the evidence of the 'fruits" was an indicator of validity.

Re that "stuff" I was referring to the fin de siecle of the 19th century when occult fiction, especially since Mary Shelley's "Frankenstein", was very popular. The old religions had lost their luster among the educated classes who were the main consumers of new occult or spiritual revelations on the order of Theosophy and Rosicrucianism.
Another Dimension60
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Unread post by Another Dimension60 »

thanks Joe. I was speaking more specifically to the stories of the so-called Masters of the Far East - that because of my Sunday School training I was receptive to 'stuff' as demonstrated by these Masters - and no way for James Randi's one-million-dollar prize test.
I certainly agree with: by their fruits ye shall know them... .... And perhaps that is one answer to 'how do we tell' -- what the fruits.
And the not so black and white thing for me is that stories such as Jesus, Budha, the fictional Masters of the Far East, Star Trek...is their inspiration and motivation for people who ultimately do 'bear fruit' - maybe not magical powers, but 'contribute' in some way to our world ... ....
Does it work, is a good question - is what's being taught working for us. The twist is - ramtha telling people it's not working because they're not passionate enough focused enough whatever enough in an overall environment of internal discord... or like preachers telling the congregation they're sinners and going to hell.... .... I wonder if the move of the educated to the occult is as it is today among those of us who were drawn to 'alternatives' to the spiritual traditions in which we were brought up. We seem to have a hunger, a drive, a deep desire to in fact bear the fruit of our specific tradition ... but those traditions have failed to provide the 'how' to bear fruit ... We're constantly being told what we aren't, and not what we truly are and even more can be. ... ....
I continue to be astounded at what is actually available within whatever our 'spiritual tradition' - that surpasses in 'yaya' and 'New Ageness' anything false fake or true that has been dubbed occult/New Age since Theosophy and its ilk. Judaism, Christianity, Mohammedanism,,, have what is called their 'mystical' dimensions, teachings, writings, experiencers. there is a consistency among the traditions and within each tradition that has been around so long it's practically timeless... .... and their stories contain all the 'powers' and phenomena described/promoted in 'new age' literature.
But I'm drifting from the spalding anyone knew.... ... Again I do agree that before we give heart and soul and money to another 'teacher', particularly a psychic or channeling or medium type, there needs to be a 'testing', establishment of credibility..... .... What's interesting is how I, and I suspect others who went through jz's world, put aside such questions/accepted the lack of evidence - some may remember an Intensive in the mid80's when someone asked ramtha "what did I have for breakfast" and ramtha proceeded to yell at us for an hour and then dismissed the session since we were so small minded as to ask such a stupid irrelevant question and when would we come up with the 'big' /true questions.
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Baird T Spalding site

Unread post by bts »

Great to see some interest in Spalding on this site. His story is a fascinating one.

I am writing a biography of Spalding and have published some of my research at http://www.bairdtspalding.org

Ramtha/JZ quoted Spalding quite a lot in her books and I plan to cover Spalding's influence on groups such as RSE. I'd appreciate any input from former RSE students on Spalding and how JZ related it to the Ramtha teachings.

Putting the mystical claims aside, Spalding's actual life story is quite fascinating as I am slowly discovering.

Todd
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Unread post by bts »

joe sz wrote: the Bruton book indicates that Baird's grandfather "John" Spalding did live in India where Baird's father may have been born. So it is conceivable that Baird "III" had real ties to India. Bruton states that Grandpop John wrote an unpublished manuscript that Baird later used and edited to concoct his first book.

My hunch is that old John Spalding was influenced by the success of the current Theosophical writings about "masters" that Blavastky met in India [her writings from Masters made an initial popular splash in the late 1880s]. Garver's 'Brother of the Third Degree' was popular among elitist seekers in the mid-1890s. There were many others in that fanciful occult novel vein or genre at the time. Think about Baird's dates for his events in first book---1894ish.
FYI, my research shows that this was just a story. Spalding's father and grandfather were Stephen and Hiram respectively, and neither visited India.

Bruton himself was quite a character and I'm working on a blog post on him. His own mystical inclinations led him to take Spalding's stories at face value when in hindsight many of them were just PR to help sell books.
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Robair
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Hello

Unread post by Robair »

Hello Bts
I am not going to comment on it as I am not all that familiar with his story,Other on this site will I am sure
My self will tell you that the Series the Teaching from the Master from the far East was some of the most improtant books in the school and required reading for all Ramsters.Yes they were very very influential books in the school. JZ milked them as much as she could for at list 20 years
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Caterpillar
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Spalding's influence on RSE

Unread post by Caterpillar »

Hello Bts

It is great that you are writing about Spalding. I am not quite sure what sort of info you were after but I hope the following references help.

I was led to believe by "Ramtha" that the author, Spalding was genuine in his ?story? about the Masters of the Far East. The set of books have been recommended readings in the early days to even now.

For instance, at a few events last year that I attended, ?Ramtha? requested all beginning students and advanced students (Blue College group) to read the Masters of the Far East books (again) with two other books before 2009.

http://ramtha.com/Newsletter/Vol4/Issue ... nline.html

http://www.ramtha.com/newsletter/vol4/i ... aread.html

Copied from RSE Newsletter Oct 2008:

?In 2009 there will be a rising in the school of those who are ready for the great initiations and to become a true master of the art of reality itself. In the interim, I want you to read these books:

The Life and Teachings of the Masters of the Far East,
The Red Lion, and
The Nine Faces of Christ.

These were the first books I sent as runners to my channel so long ago. I wish for you to read these books before 2009.?

RSE claims to teach its students the art of manifestation, healing, remote view, telekinesis, levitation, invisibility, bilocation, teleportation, immortality etc. that the Masters of the Far East supposedly achieved. In 2009, there would be more focus on these ?abilities?.



There is a RSE book called Defining the Master by Ramtha. ?Ramtha? recommended JZ to read the Masters of the Far East so as to understand ?him?.

http://books.google.com/books?id=2caz4y ... st&f=false

On page 12, Ramtha said to JZ on Masters of the Far East books: ?? you read them because then you will know what I am.?

JZ: ?And so I read them and I began to understand that Ramtha was one of those beings, in a way.?



http://www.ramtha.com/html/aboutus/aboutus.stm

?There are many traces of Ramtha's thought found in ancient traditions, although in most cases all that remain are faint echoes that have barely survived the passing of time and the loss of their appropriate context for interpretation. Some of these traditions are the philosophies of the ancient Egyptians and Pharaoh Akhnaton, Buddha's description of himself as the awakened, Socrates' understanding of virtue and the immortality of the soul, Plato's concept of universal forms, the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, the works of St. Thomas the Apostle, the Hymn of the Pearl, Apollonius of Tyana, Mani, the Cathars and Albigensians, the Spanish Mystics, the works of art of Michelangelo and Leonardo da Vinci, and the masters of the Far East, to name a few.?



http://www.ramtha.com/html/aboutus/faqs ... master.stm

What is an ascended master?

RSE?s website describes this with reference to Spalding?s set of books for a more detailed description.



In conclusion, Spalding's books definitely ?influenced? RSE teachings. I do not remember Ramtha saying much about Spalding?s life. JZ as Ramtha usually promotes the ?achievements? of the Masters of the Far East as ?genuine? and we can do it...
bts
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Unread post by bts »

Thanks for those references Caterpillar. I'd found one of them before but the others (and the website) are new to me.
joe sz
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Unread post by joe sz »

I heard that the new biography on Spalding that will be fact based and NOT newage fantasy is nearing completion. Stay tuned....it may be out in a year or so .
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