The EnlightenMeFree (EMF) Online Debate Forum

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Hi,
I found some strong clues in some of JZKnight and Ramtha's recent videos that are subconscious giveaways to her deception. In this interview of JZ Knight, which I've only watched the first half of, when she's describing what happened when she found Ramtha in the 70s, and especially whenever she describes leaving her body and going down the tunnel to the white light, she's basically saying that she dies every time she channels, and that this is very rare, when on the other hand, everyone has natural mediumistic abilities (according to her, she's obviously trying to set herself apart and trying to build herself up as some special chosen one with a unique ability to leave her body and die), whenever she talks about her leaving her body, going to the light, etc., her eyes dart to her right, our left.
This indicates she's lying, accessing information that she has imagined, not actual memories of events. Someone skilled in NLP eye-reading could have a field day deconstructing this and other of her interviews, as she is quite clearly lying and her eyes are telling exactly where she's lying and what she's lying about.
As I watched this interview, I began thinking critically about her claims to leave her body and die when she channels, and I've come to the obvious conclusion that it is clearly absurd, as by all accounts, JZ is a selfish and self-absorbed woman. No one with those character traits would take off and donate her body to some spirit, and miss out on all the fun and action, all the adoration and adulation and stimulation and power games. Especially during those 'wine ceremonies'! The way her eyes move in this video is a dead giveaway to the truth, that she is lying about leaving her body.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 2346&hl=en&
amp;emb=1#docid=6095034225144404196 In another recent video, which is entirely 'channeled' and is purportedly 'Ramtha', there are dead giveaways in her accent, as well as certain moments of facial expressions which are quite interesting. In the beginning of the interview, she has the usual accented way of speaking that is fairly pronounced (yet nothing like her 1985 Merv Griffin interview, indeed!).
However, towards the last quarter of the segment, the accent is almost entirely gone. See for yourself, in the beginning of the interview, she does use the word 'body' for example, and it's pronounced with a long 'o' (bow-dy). And in the very last minute of the interview, the word body is pronounced in typical American English (bah-dy). That's just to give a specific example, but if you watch the interview, you'll see how the accent fades towards the latter part of the interview and there are entire sentences said with no trace of an accent except for JZ's, and you can see her speaking normally. Here's another example, around 17.33 she says, 'the only way that mediocrity (actually she says mediocriSy), can ...' and in this first half of the sentence it's totally JZ's accent and voice, and she slips up a word, and catches herself, and seems to try to add the accent back in to the second part, but forgets again.
I also get the distinct feeling that she's incredibly drunk during this interview, which is perhaps why the total loss of control over the act. And is that pot in the pipe she's smoking? The way she inhales, it really seems like it... Also I found one particular moment quite interesting. In the same sentence above, she continues, '[b:5d948bf250]it's simply a con game of abuse[/b:5d948bf250]'. You'll see from 17.50-18.0 minutes, after she says this, she goes into 10 seconds of sadistic smirking, and you can actually see disturbing emotions passing over her face, after this very phrase which is obviously very close to her and Ramtha's little hearts. A con game of abuse. Just watch her face after she says this and the emotions passing through it, you can see she's laughing at her own inside joke on the inside.
She's proud of her con game of abuse, she loves having pulled the wool over people's eyes, and abusing them - this is all clear in the expressions in this 10 second moment of smirking, etc. To sum it up, I believe it's true that this is a case of demonic possession.
The entity is with her and feeds her info, but she doesn't leave her body. She shares it. At the last few minutes of this interview, he refers to his 'humble abode', this bleached blond in Tacoma... well so he's saying, he actually lives in JZ. She never leaves, and he's always there. Essentially, it would seem the two are fused. But the trance channeling and the accent are an act in which JZ is a conscious participant, under the influence of her spirit friend, whose emotions are hers, and vice versa. here's the link to the second interview
I was referring to above: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 3309603904

free76

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Hello free76 welcome to EMF.
Your observational skills are spot on, you also have a strong stomach to observe "Ramtha" videos

JZRamtha... 'it's simply a con game of abuse'.

Yep.. this is one of Judith's multiple personalities having a private joke.
I believe that Judith is locked within her own "ramtha" nightmare, a little girl that never grew up to blossom into a compassionate human being
but plagued by cunning and inhuman alters"
Perhaps this is the reason why JZ/R attacks the Catholic church so often is... the fear of exorcism rituals! Yikes..
appreciation for your insights.

David.

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Hi David,
Thanks for the welcome. Yes, it was hard to watch this stuff and I didn't watch it all. What's also interesting about these two clips is the one of JZ,
she's lucid and clear (obviously not drunk), and is able to tell her story.
The clip of Ramtha, the supposed enlightened one is dark and ridiculous, there isn't 2 cents worth of wisdom in there, nothing she/he said is really even making sense. It's obviously a mind game to her in the clip of Ramtha, and she's very arrogant and deluded about her wisdom... there's such a big sense of arrogance in the way she stares after she attempts to make a point in that clip. I get where you're coming from about the alter personalities, for sure. After I read your post, I had some feelings of compassion for her, but that was quickly overridden by the thousands of people who have been conned and abused by her and her 'personalities' or 'demons'... most vivid in my mind is the story of the people being directed to charge across the field blindfolded at each other. I get the sense that was a peak moment of sadism in JZ/R's life, one she remembers and relishes and gloats over often (and it was obviously a pointless 'exercise' except as an act of power for her/them).
I also appreciate the points of view of AD and Oldone and I was thinking of this also. IMO, when it comes to exactly what is going on, it's a case of knowing that we don't know, after I made my post, I realized I was offering my interpretation of possession, but I had prefaced it with 'I believe', and David offered his of MPD. In fact... it could even be both, at the same time, demons or spirits could install personalities in a person's mind, for example, or possession could easily meet the criteria of MPD, depending on your worldview, whether or not there are spirits.
These various interpretations are equally valid and possible, as is the interpretation that she's a sick con woman with no demon/spirit and no multiple personalities, in fact, this last view would probably be the most logical and skeptical one. In the areas of mind and spirit, we can't really see or know exactly what is going on, as it's invisible. We can't see the mind, we can't see spirits, we can only interpret and assume. In my case, I assume it's possession because I can 'see' this in her, partly based on my own experience with spirits and possession.
Possession is actually very subtle, and I believe so-called experts like the Catholic religion really don't know what they don't know, and perhaps have been tricked and fooled to let in false teachings on the subject, or lulled into a sense of security that they have it all figured out. We don't know what these spirits are or how they function, just the same as we really don't know about the mind or our own spirit. All we really know (for those that accept the existence of astral beings) is that they lie, they influence, and they can fuse with a person in cases of possession and/or MPD. However, just because my interpretation is possession doesn't mean I expect others to believe this.
Without evidence, how could someone believe that anyway? Whether or not it is a spirit, or MPD, it IS clear that JZ is complicit in a vast and sadistic con, and while it may be possible to have a glimmering of compassion for her, what I really wish for her is that she meets justice and is punished as severely as possible in this life and the next. It's a travesty that with this info out there and all the work you've done to expose her, that this fraud and cult is still operating and JZ Knight is considered some sort of an expert in the mainstream media - this sick sadist is on TV talking to Larry King Live? I haven't read everything here but I noticed a lot of people were asking for examples of her losing her accent and switching back and forth as evidence of fraud - people often would make reference to occasions of her saying 'oh my heck' but hadn't shown clips of it - I think the second video is a good example of the evidence they're seeking :)
It would really easy for the media to expose her based even on just this video alone, one's gotta wonder why the media is letting her continue to abuse people with the truth on this site that's been out there for so long, who is protecting her so-called experiment?

free76

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have to agree with David re Free's observational skills.
I'm fascinated by both Free's and David's 'conclusion' though -- I wonder why JZK Inc's Ramtha show has to be attributed to either 'possession' or psychiatric disorder/multiple personalities.
Is it too hard for us to accept that she's a highly skilled con artist? Certainly she has psychiatric issues - or at least a diagnosis - but not necessarily multiple personalities - or even a demon -- she has too often evidenced her capability of slipping from one personality to another, spewing information of all sorts, claiming she's not lying and proceeding to lie, etc.... That is, to me, except and even somewhat, when she's roaring drunk she has a great deal of control. My intention isn't at all to be argumentative here - I sincerely want to understand why 'possession' is so often claimed as source of her behavior.
Are the the owners of BP and all its related companies, and the international corporations and banks possessed by demons, or simply greedy power hungry hard hearted people? I dunno

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Hi Everyone, Free76, thanks for your thread, it has certainly been interesting reading. Your comment

I haven't read everything here but I noticed a lot of people were asking for examples of her losing her accent and switching back and forth as evidence of fraud

This comment prompted me to remember a major “red flag." To be honest, I recall Ramtha's accent changing continuously, but one CD really highlighted it for me. There is a CD called “Understanding The Out of Body Experience” which you may be familiar with. It is a classic show of JZ as Ramtha obviously during a wine ceremony. You can hear her sucking on the pipe from time to time. JZ's accent is predominent right throughout the teaching, at times her accent is very southern, but at one point JZ obviously remembers she’s supposed to be Ramtha & while referring to herself says “MY DAUGHTEREN”; the hookey, phoney Indian/English accent appears “out of the blue” then almost immediately the accent changes back to JZ’s drawling American accent again. I felt myself cringing listening to JZ as Ramtha on this CD raving about how wonderful JZ is, how humble, simple, hard working she is, how she loves all people yaddayaddayadda, basically the story was “my daughteren has out of body experiences because she’s so loving, unprejudiced etc etc (whilst you, the audience isn't) – the audience started getting emotional & someone called out “we love JZ” & JZ as Ramtha yells back “you should tell her that” ……. Oh please.
just like Glen says in his videos - JZ is a sociopath. What I've seen in sociopaths is that they at first pretend to be someone they are not and would like to be and they live that life long enough that what they think truly becomes their reality. To get them to accept another version of reality, you are only wasting your time. They truly do not "get it" that reality is something else. It is not so much MPD but they have lived the lie for so long that the lie is their truth and reality and their behavior only supports that and they only surround themselves with people who buy into their reality ('suz the pun!). They do everything within their power to maintain the lie which eventually becomes a form of mental illness because they have disassociated themselves from their true self (so to speak) and common sense reality. It eventually gets to the point that their life becomes absurd from what is a common sense reality that it starts spiral out of control.The more they try to control, the worse it spirals. It seems to me this is the case with JZ. She's created a situation for herself that she does not have a choice but to continue (no way ger EGO will admit the game) and it is becoming more absurd as the time goes by. You have to admit that she is very creative and smart but she choose to utilize her gifts in this manner and the accountability is hers. This is a good example of how power corrupts. Some people can handle power appropriately, most can't. Our accountability is realizing the part that we have played in this game and to help ourselves and others (if they want our help... a good thought is to approach a person 3 times for help, after that, let them walk their path). This was a very good lesson for me. It increased my awareness which is the probably the basic core to all of this. Having an awareness of a situation, being aware of our own thoughts, sensations, beliefs and making the best decision for ourself AT THAT MOMENT with the resources that we have is pretty much how we handle life. In retrospect, the decisions made perhaps were not the best but if we make the best of it, that is what matters.
Thanks Free76 for your post and the work to point out the discrepancies in the videos.

Thanks David for this web site....

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Hello guys I am with AD on this one David is much too kind sometime,
I do not feel sorry for What her Face what so ever,she nothing but a cone artist and a Charlatan,she know what she is doing,
her so call multi- personality is nothing more then acting.
My two cents.

oldone

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It was watching the video Where Angels Fear to Tread that my heart broke open with compassion for JZ -- drunk, she was able to scream her rage and all the utter from her depths hurt that David sees in her - all the anger at the abuse. More people than not have been abused. .... I just heard a quote tonight:

it's not what happens to us that matters as much as what we do with what happens.... .....

Children who survived Nazi concentration camps, along with the loss of parents and siblings didn't necessarily become murderers. Of any human being on this earth JZ has the knowledge and the resources to deal with what happened to her in a constructive healing way. She's chosen not to.
You're an interesting person Free - keep posting It's the same with all of us survivors - we don't really fully understand all that happened to us; only that we were used and abused --
what we do with that experience is our choice.

AD60

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Great thread..thank you free76 and everyone,
The few times I have stared into JZR’s eyes left me feeling very confused, I saw a cardboard cutout and felt an empty shell! but I was totally expecting to see and feel a loving and expansive ”Christ like" human being!!
I concluded it was my own lowly projection.
I suspect this is normal when you get close to a clever sociopath or “whatever” is plaguing Judith.
Perhaps... the “real” person is the child still buried deep behind the “JZ Knight Ramtha “alters”.
I doubt if that little girl will ever surface to know real love and her own precious place in life and humanity.
When people say to me “Ramtha” is not real I say to them neither is JZ Knight! The mind will do what it can to protect itself in time of immense trauma, but when those that bring us into this world negate from their protection and love this is a tragedy that may cause a catastrophic injury to the mind that inturn
opens the door to monsters like “JZ Knight” and “Ramtha” to continue to perpetuate the abuse of innocence.

David

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Thanks for the replies -
David, you and I must have posted at the same time the other day You are so right, JZ will likely never know herself, love or her place in humanity. Yes, she is definitely not real, particularly as her entire life is a lie - your insights also relate to hidesert's on the sociopathic aspect, which I also find fascinating. Definitely only a sociopathic personality could become an abusive and lying cult leader, what you both had to say was very interesting... hope the discussion continues! AnotherDimension - wow - can't imagine all that rage and screaming you describe. I totally agree with you that JZ has the knowledge and resources to overcome any childhood abuse, so it's not an excuse for one person to go off and abuse thousands out of past traumatic experiences... many people have endured similar suffering and many have gone through far worse. Most will hurt people from time to time throughout their lives until (if) they can eventually find healing. That's unfortunate, but it takes a 'unique' person to go off and start a cult abusing thousands of people.
So I really don't feel sorry for her. I've seen a few comments here and there in other threads that she is stuck and trapped in her role, backed into a corner, and etc. Well, I don't think so. She can stop today, this instant, dissolve the cult, the school, the business, stop printing, publishing, she can disappear, go into retirement, go into hiding, she could even fabricate any excuse or cover story to save face - Ramtha is leaving, he's said all he's needed to say, he's said it's time for her to live her own life, etc. She's only continuing on in this destructive path this because she chooses to.
And I'm not a subscriber to blaming the victim philosophy or ultimate responsibility or solipsism or any of the more extreme extensions of New Age philosophy which lead to lack of compassion... I try to be a realist, and see people as responsible for their actions and the pains they cause other people, even when they are suffering themselves.
Dove, great example of another discrepancy. So she often slips out of the 'Ramtha' accent, particularly when drunk, hm. Wow, that's really something 'Ramtha' telling the students how great JZ is and to tell JZ how much they love her, etc. It oddly reminds me of how she used to advise her ex-husband, Knight, as he had said he had basically unlimited access to 'Ramtha' who would advise him even, I think, in his relationship with JZ. How sick and utterly manipulative! Anyways, it is nice to be here on this board, I'll continue to check in and post, I've learned a lot here. I never was a student or follower of JZ, but I came to investigate it b/c a friend of a friend is an enthusiastic current follower wanting to move to Yelm, and I wanted to find out what the deal was, if it was real or not, and I've also been reading up on cults and mind control techniques in general - what is done in the Ramtha school is very similar, it seems, to some of the brainwashing that takes place in other seminars - such as Byron Katie, Landmark Seminars, T Harv Eker, PSI, and many, many others. It's devastating and destructive, and unfortunately, people who are easily hypnotized are the prey. We make up probably about 10% of the population,
but I figure we make up at least 90% of those who get sucked in by these types of groups.

Free76

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Hi Free76,

I have really enjoyed reading this thread and your contributions to it.
Something you said has really stuck with me...

She can stop today, this instant, dissolve the cult, the school, the business, stop printing, publishing, she can disappear, go into retirement, go into hiding, she could even fabricate any excuse or cover story to save face - Ramtha is leaving, he's said all he's needed to say, he's said it's time for her to live her own life, etc. She's only continuing on in this destructive path this because she chooses to.

Or hey, she could 'fess up, admit the whole thing has been a farce and face the music. Otherwise she's creating some serious 'karmic' debt!! But hey, let's be real. She'd never have the intestinal fortitude to tell the truth!
Thanks for your thoughts, I hope your friend sees the light quickly!

Appealing