Just Wow

[justwow]

This is my first post on this forum.

I started dating a ramster 10 months ago. I must say I didn't know what the bleep ramtha was. (I never saw the movie until recently). I just knew it was important to my boyfriend. After watching some 'ramtha' videos on youtube, I realized that this person who claimed to channel a 35K year old warrior never really said anything new spiritually speaking. i.e., I didn't learn anything new. I am a firm believer in the power of positive thinking, so yes, I agreed with that piece. But the more I watched...the more I wanted to compare JZ to Bernie Madoff. There was a smirk in her eye, and in her speech, almost saying I am fooling you, because I am smarter and better than you. Wow! I won't even mention the fake accent. Why would a 35K year old warrier have a bad English accent, interspersed with Southern American phrases?

I just got a really dark vibe from this JZ person, and I told my boyfriend that. He said that it was the warrior that was giving off the dark vibe. To which, I said well if the warrior is still coming through, how is this entity enlightened? No answer. I also questioned the concept of 'you create your reality'. How can EVERYONE create their own reality...doesn't this cause some conflict? No answer. And what about the doom and gloom portion? There are new (unfulfilled) prophecies all the time. Japan was going to fall in the ocean, 10.5 earthquake, the end of life as we know it. None of those things happened. I asked him why would you focus, or even consider, such horrible outcomes for mankind. Aren't you in fact helping to create it just by thinking of it, and preparing for it? Again, no answer. Argggg...the circular logic is mind-boggling.

Anyway, I love this man dearly, he is a good person, caring, intelligent, wanting to help others. But it grieves me to see him fooled like this.

I found this forum and have been reading, and realize that this ramtha thing is a lot more than a new age movement. Thanks for allowing me to vent. I cannot vent to him, as I don't think that is the way to 'wake him up'. I've tried planting subtle seeds of doubt, but no luck yet. I'll just keep trying....

[ponysong]

Hi justwow:

I hear you. I too dated an RSE cult member (briefly). I got out of the relationship when things got too weird after the March/April 2011 retreat where JZ drank/puked/blew snot/rambled/ranted/prophesied doom for 17 hours in one session.

I'm still sad about it; my guy was a sweetheart too, but you just can't talk to them when they have bought that line of BS.

I'm glad to see you here; I have found this forum really helpful in keeping things real for me since I broke up with my RSE ex-BF.

Hugs!

[justwow]

thanks ponysong! hugs back atcha!

[ex]

hi justwow. my compliments to you having choosen such a difficult relationship. you r bright to see all the points jz actual fails. you r definitly right not to push too hard. but sadly your partner will think some day you see the rse light. relationships between students and nonstudents mostly don't work out. jz looses her grip on a truly happy person. she knows this and her brainwash goes deep to leave a person restless and disoriented. she needs this blind loyalty from her students and rips families,lovers, friends merciless apart. there is a history about enlighten warriors in hinduisem. the dark energies from goods [like kali black shiva...] r not dismissed as not helpful to reach enlightenment. just to help with your arguments because you r right seeding doubt is your best chance. it always relay challenged me to imagine how everybody is creating their realty without having conflicts with other creators. in a childrens book i read this thought: that magic is control and a magigen is in the position to control all elements of his environment all the time were normal people don't have to. that's what made this creating business taught at rse so tiresome and questionable. i hope you break your friend loose. as you read i am the negative nagger. still all the best to you.

[Rooster]

Thank you, for posting! I so enjoyed reading it. I know pushing hard will only make him make him cling to his belief harder. That is how I would react.

I have been with my wonderful husband for eight years. We dated several years before getting married. He is the one that helped me to wake up. He never pressured, never challenged me, just kept giving me those little seeds. He would not put up with negativity and would always tell me why. He helped me to see many things i was doing as a result of rse. I was a bit slow but caught on. You just never know!!

[justwow]

ex - the voice of reason is always appreciated. : )

Rooster - thanks for the encouragement, I am not ready to give up on him yet.

[Ockham]

Hi Justwow,

I am an RSE outsider with family friends that are involved in Judy Knight's mind circus. Maybe there is hope for your boyfriend. It sounds like he may not be so far in that he has completely suspended critical thinking. RSE does prime the attendees with excuses to paper over the obvious inconsistencies: "Ramtha," is testing the, "masters," by lieing to them, putting disasters, "on hold," changing, "timelines," etc. The priming may be countered with, "how impecable is lieing?" "Why would, 'Ramtha,' need to change timelines?; doesn't, 'Ramtha,' already know the future?"

It is painful to watch friends dump buckets of money on RSE, "teaching," and all that survival paraphernalia. One person I know cashed out retirement funds and now lives in an underground shelter near Yelm. Lives in the UG because that is all that can be afforded sice RSE gobbles up the rest of the money. I asked, "If you are a master and, 'Ramtha,' really is omnipresent and omniscient, then why doesn't, 'he,' communicate with you personally? He knows you're one of his pre-chosen, 'masters.' Right?" Why should there be any need to listen to the, "teachings," from the mouth of an old lady with bad plastic surgery speaking in a ridiculous fake Brittish accent?

You can probably get the same alleged Gnostic truth that you get from RSE's panoply of multi thousand dollar events with a handful of books from the public library that can be read in a week. Outrageous Acts and Everyday Rebellions by Gloria Steinem, I'm OK--You're OK, by Thomas Harris and The Prophet by Kahlil Gibran are a few examples of contemperaneous works of pop culture/psychology that were around in the late 1970s and 1980s when Judy Knight and her writers were cooking up the, "Ramtha," character. I think you can see these or similar authors bubbling up in the early works such as Love Yourself Into Life and Ramtha that were written for Judy Kinght.

In the latter part of the 1980s, Knight and her staff started to change the, "teachings," away from the feel-good message in Love Yourself Into Life over to the doomsday approach. Knight understands marketing much like Steve Jobs did. She learned she can only sell a love message to her customer once, then it is done. The doomsday message can be sold over and over each time a new volcano pops up or an earthquake happens. Shifting timeline! - Oops we need another emergency event! (Steve Jobs figured out he could sell his customers the same song over and over too!)

If you want to see a real contrast, search Youtube and have you and the boyfriend watch the 1985 Merv Griffin interview of Judy Knight and, "Ramtha." Back then, "Ramtha," sounded like a friendly gnome like Yoda from Star Wars, not the booming, snot blowing, puking, potty mouth thing that Judy Knight portrays now.

By the way, point out that, "Amen," pretty much translates to "So be it." I found that gives pause to ramsters because it hints to them that they're really doing a church thing, and they are exposed to so much church bashing at RSE. The Church I Am, indeed!

[Lost in Space]

Hi Just Wow

Like Okham, I am an outsider and have friends in RSE.
I think if you love your boyfriend, you will at least for the time being have to accept him as he is, or find somebody more suitable. I am far from unsympathetic, I just think that if you push a choice between the 'big guy' and the teachings and you, you are also saying that you would love him if only he would change. I know it can be distressing, dealing with the survival mode that comes on after an 'emergency' event, and I know sometimes the Ramsters have a way of dismissing us non-Ramsters as unenlightened, and this can at times get insulting, and there is no harm in pointing that out.
Perhaps if instead you focus on the things about the person that drew you to him in the first place, and encourage the heck out of those traits, and also give plenty of credit for any signs of critical thinking, that will help both of you.
Hope everything works out for you.

[Kensho]

Very sound advice
Thanks for that LOS

With love, Kensho

[Ockham]

Anyway, I love this man dearly, he is a good person, caring, intelligent, wanting to help others.

I concur with Lost In Space that dating a dedicated ramster may not be easy. RSE encourages students to be introverts, and seek enlightenment from their inner god, or words to that effect. RSE encourages detachment from family and even one's own children. It is all about the I to a hardcore ramster. You may well have to take a back seat to, "the Ram," in any family decision making, and be prepared for endless spending on events, follow-ups, assays, emergency teachings, books, food hoarding, shelter digging, survival gear, etc., etc.

The quirky behaviors may wind up driving you nuts too. Hours of listening to frog-croaking subliminal message CDs, hours of listening to JZ Knight pretend to be, "Ramtha," playing mock roulette on the computer, staring at playing cards enlessly, neighborhood walk, chanting, C+E trance breathing, staring at candles, every time taking a drink - holding the cup to the forehead and saying, "thank you," blessing plates of food with hugging motions, the phrase, "so be it," shrine to JZ Kight with her picture, always being told not to say stuff or you may, "manifest," something bad, posters of blue body, webs and other stuff plastered all over your house, and tons of ritualistic behaviors.

Remember, you really can't cure a ramster of being a ramster. You'll have to accept it for what it is, and hope he's got enough critical thinking neurons still left in the brain to eventually see the RSE equation adds up to 2 + 2 = 3 and leaves on his own accord. Best wishes, and I hope he sees through the RSE double talk sooner rather than later.

[justwow]

thanks for all of the words of wisdom. After reading all the 'ramster type behavior', I don't think he is too far gone. He doesn't do the neighborhood walks, or the c&e breathing, and I've never seen him bless his food....but, he does still attend the 'classes' twice per year.

I guess I will just have to take a 'wait and see' approach.

Just Wow

[joe sz]

justwow
not sure how old or how experienced a new age seeker your partner is, but some folks of all ages I've encountered broke free of RSE-like attachments merely by reading a relevant book or two I recommended through their significant other
eg
Madame Blavatsky's Baboon by Peter Washington

Bounded Choice by Janja Lalich

Spying in Guruland by William Shaw
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2487 ... _Guru_Land

and it is an extremely cheap investment for this kind of major life change.

[justwow]

that is a great idea! I'll check them out...

Thanks!

[joe sz]

Just Wow

I have lots of other titles but I'd have to know what background experience may have led the person to readily accept the Ramtha message.
any prior group or religious affiliations or spiritual orientation?
other books or gurus that had an impact?
any history of anxiety or mood disorder beyond the norm?
did he/she practice meditation in any form?
anxious artist syndrome? [this is something that affected my course into cultland. you can see this operating in any number of actors, writers, poets and wannabes whose identity often depends on the acceptance or success of their product.]
etc...

you can email me directly
jszimhart@windstream.net

[ponysong]

anxious artist syndrome?

I'd be interested in titles relating to this one. :)