The EnlightenMeFree (EMF) Online Debate Forum

I am new to this site today. I was in the school for 7 yrs, then the last 4 years which I haven't gone to any on premise event, but did some on-line things. I was going to go to the nexyour t event starting tomorrow to see what I could do to get back into the disciplines and hear some new teachings. I have had some things in the past that I didn't like about the school (some wine ceremonies, the increase pay for seating thing) but still believed Ramtha was real. My boyfriend showed me the Glen Cunningham videos yesterday, and now for the first time I have seen that this may have been a fake all along. It was what he said about JZ's mannerisms he saw in Ramtha, JZ's mom, and the books under the bed that have me thinking. But how could JZ fake the scientists info that the earth's magnetic field changed when Ram came in, or how she is functioning as Ramtha in deep delta? Or is this a lie? Ramtha just seems so real in person, and of course I have found that I have been able to get cards in the field, see through playing cards, etc - or are we just able to do this as humans. They are still good disciplines in my mind. What specific information convinced you that Ramtha wasn't real ? I am trying to read as much as I can about this. The inside scoop (people who have seen things firsthand) really seems to be the most convincing. Do you have meeting in person to discuss things? Thanks for more insight...max
also my cell 360 464-3148

here you go the scientific paper about rse. let me know if you find any statement which is coherent with the claims of rse
http://www.rambenelux.com/downloads/art ... -sympa.pdf

since i was at rse [around 2000]i heard greg simons claiming he has proof for healings. never saw it. a poster here went to significant length to get it. try yourself to get the real proof from rse and watch what happens. i am shure this will settle any doubts about the real intend of rse. go trough this board here lots of info. my question to myself at the end was : would i be were iam without rse? i saw that i could be at a better place. go on asking questions its a good beginning.

Hi Max,

Good questions.

JZ Knight does what many fake psychics do. She gets you to ask the question backwards from the perspective presuming 'Ramtha,' exists. Turn it around and ask, 'Ramtha,' to prove, he's real. 'Ramtha,' should be able to manifest or predict in a manner quantifiable, specific, and repeatable. Did, 'Ramtha,' ever manifest anything physical on his prime home turf, the arena? Did anything physical appear out of nothingness? No. I'm not talking about the gold coins masters supposedly found in the tank. Do you think those weren't planted there by staff?

Did, 'Ramtha,' say anything specific regarding the March 11, 2011 Japan earthquake. No. 'Ramtha,' is claimed to have made a generic statement to the effect that there would be a great shaking and Japan would move; gave no date and got the direction Japan moved backwards. RSE masters might say the quake was a, 'runner,' to warn masters to get out of Japan. Some runner! God, 'Ramtha,' killed 19,000 innocent Japanese people with that runner. Is that the kind of ascended master you want follow? 'Ramtha,' practiced a bit of retroactive prediction about the March 11 earthquake. The follow-on prediction made by, 'Ramtha,' was a cold fish – ‘he,’ said that Japan would sink beneath the ocean and UFOs would fly out of Mt Fuji. Did any of that happen? Did, 'Ramtha,' specifically pre warn that the devastating Indian Ocean quake and tsunami would occur on December 26, 2004, killing at least 230,000 people? No.

Do any of the disciplines really result in anything you can actually use in your day-to-day life? Suppose you can perfect reading cards in the affectatious way it is done on the arena floor? What do you think you can do with that skill? Trust me, if you go to the casino up the road on the Nisqually reservation, I don't think they're going to let you stare at each of your cards for a couple of minutes under the glare of a 100 Watt bulb when you play Blackjack! How would that skill serve you in the post apocalyptic TDTC?

The supposed scientific testing of JZ Knight is pretty much junk science. Milligauss fluctuations on magnetometer really don't mean anything. The magnetic field at the Earth's surface varies that much even when nothing obvious is happening. Something as mundane as a minor solar flare can cause local rapid variations in the magnetic field. To make laboratory measurements, a set of Helmholtz coils, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmholtz_coil , connected to a remote magnetometer, is required to generate a null field. The coils are set up to cancel the Earth's H field, and then the H field of a subject under test inside the coils may be measured. I have seen photos of JZ Knight being, 'tested,' and it was anything but a lab situation were meaningful measurements could be made. There was an eclectic box fan positioned a few feet away to cool JZ as she did her thing. There's your magnetic field Kimosabe!

So, I'd have to say I have not seen any material evidence that, 'Ramtha,' in fact exists in the first place; there's no need to prove, 'Ramtha,' doesn't exist.

As far as the disciplines go, you can learn materially similar exercises for going to the Void at a Buddhist learning center, though they will not have the same trademarked names and may be nearly cost free.

Hi Max.
That 'scientific' study of JZ/R has never been corroborated by independent scientists. Judy will not submit to that. The crew that 'tested" her had a bias pro-psi coming in, thus a huge RED FLAG should be waving in your head about any claim made. The team that tested her never compared results by repeating the test w other psychics and professional actors pretending to channel a god.
If the earth's axis shifted when they were doing the tests on jz/ramtha, they have not ruled out other causes having nothing to do with R. eg, a small Pentecostal Church had a fantastic 'outpouring' of the Holy Spirit at that very moment--they could make the claim that caused the shift too. Or some shaman in Siberia drank the recycled juice of amanita muscaria and used that power to change the axis. Prove to me that the shaman was not the cause?

In my view after examining channeling extensively since 1980, and questioning channels and their entities, it became apparent to me that: 1. There was no independent entity there. 2. That the same part of the brain that allows you as a child to imagine a puppet as a real independent creature is activated as an adult in the presence of a performing medium or channel like JZ. The experience is palpable, felt in the body, makes one laugh, cry, wonder, cheer, fear, etc. as if the animating force in the puppet is really the puppet. What makes channeling even more effective is its spookiness via the "possession" of a human by a spook, an invisible puppet!

On the other hand, if you are a fundamentalist in any religion (or a fundamentalist new ager as RSE folk are) and believe in the concrete reality of angels and demons, then you must discern what kind of angel it is and how good or bad the message is---iow, "test the spirtits."

In the greater scope of religious teachings, Ramtha is no heavyweight. Most of what comes out of JZ's mouth as R is repetitious and derivative of earlier Theosophy and New Thought to a fault, and other teachings like Yoga borrowed and butchered. There are better things to read and study, so why waste your time?--the latter is a rhetorical question--no need to answer it...

some things to think about in your healing journey

oops--I meant magnetic field, not axis. although, I was thinking of the 'axis mundi' that folklorists mention as the 'center pole' of the world or universe that moves subjectively with the tribe or person. Often, a tribe might set up a pole in a courtyard that becomes the center for the world both symbolically and ritually. The Maypole is an 'axis mundi.'
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_mundi

Knight has sued several people, but so far she has only sued those who have tried to copy her shtick. When Judith Ravell of Berlin started chanelling Ramtha, Knight sued and won. Ravell was ordered to stop claiming she was in contact with Ramtha and to pay Knight $800.*

Knight seems to ignore critics, probably realizing that followers will come to her no matter what her critics say. However banal or platitudinous her messages, they resonate with many people who are unhappy or bored with their lives. And many of these seekers have cash in hand.

Like Richard Bandler, Knight has a fondness for trademarking words or expressions. Knight, however, trademarks many items that are not unique to her teaching. Ramtha®, C&E®, Consciousness & Energy®, Fieldwork®, The Tank®, Blue Body®, Twilight®, Torsion ProcessSM, Neighborhood Walk,SM, The GridSM, Create Your DaySM, Become a Remarkable Life®, Mind As MatterSM, Analogical ArcherySM, and GladysSM are trademarks and service marks of JZ Knight. And don't you forget it.
[

fr Skeptics Dictionary
http://skepdic.com/ramtha.html

the statement above by a 'skeptic' is typically dismissive of seekers as somehow limited or weak:

resonate with many people who are unhappy or bored with their lives. And many of these seekers have cash in hand.

the skeptic needs to revisit his lazy, ivory tower comment. many people are quite happy, successful, and busy people before encountering a seductive cult agenda. The general anxiety all of us has about life and death is enough for a guru con to tap and draw us in their theater of magical possibilities.

The reason, I think, I have never fallen for a scam like ramtha, is that when I had my religious "crisis", I realized that there is no way for mere humans to have all the answers and knowledge. I also realized that, if there is a higher power, then this power, God, or whatever, certainly didn't create churches, cults, etc., or there would only be one, not hundreds.

It therefore follows, that, if all these "religions" are created by a person, for his/her profit, or agrandisement, then why would I want to believe any of them?

My Mama told me, at a young age, to believe nothing I hear, and only half of what I see. That was before photoshop and video editors. I am now quite content to believe NOTHING that isn't proven by scientific method, or personal experience, and be skeptical of that.

Hello max,

Below is an excerpt from a letter that I wrote to Judith after leaving RSE. Among other things like plastic surgery, hair extensions, and demonstrations of pure greed on Judith's part, what is described in the excerpt below was the clincher for me at that time.
Since then, with the help from EMF members and their posts, it is quite apparent that Ramtha is a thing that was intentionally created by Judith in order to scam others out of their money, freedom, mental and spiritual health. The many sincere posts on this site provide ample evidence that no such god-being by the name of Ramtha truly exists or ever did.
May you find all the information you seek.

With love, Kesnho

EXCERPT:
"No matter how it comes forward, it is my sincere hope that all will come to the realization that you created the Ramtha illusion. Perhaps it will come through the revelation that the whole deception of RSE seems to be based on plagiarized material from various sources, including the writings of Vera Stanley Alder. It is also my hope that all who have ever been involved with RSE, realize that RSE is a corporation and that the RSE Corporation will apparently do anything it takes to protect and promote its own interests; even at the cost of its follower's lives.

I personally came to this realization when I heard RSE's instructions and policy regarding students assisting other students during the Blue College event in 2008. If you recall, there was a severe outbreak of illness amongst the students and staff at that event. This struck some people so severely that the student body was told to check on neighboring tents each morning and on breaks for fellow students who may have become so ill that that they could not rise. We were further advised to notify staff of any such student so that they could be given assistance by staff assigned to that task. We were also told that transportation to medical attention was available for those who desired or required it. I perceive those gestures as RSE's attempt to cover its bases with respect to liability and I base that perception on the other instructions that were given to students at that event.

An appointed teacher of RSE announced from the stage, to all in attendance that no student was to give medical advice or assistance to any other student while on RSE grounds. The announced RSE policy specifically disallowed physical assistance or advice to be provided to students by other students who had medical training while at the ranch. The reason for this was stated as being due to liability issues pertaining to RSE. The need to protect RSE from a potential law suit was openly promoted over helping to ease another human being's discomfort.

That is where my faith in you, Ramtha and RSE came crashing down. When I realized that I was being instructed to let another human being suffer in favor of protecting a corporation's interests, I was devastated. RSE was revealed to me that day as being completely controlled by what I had ironically been taught was mass-to-mass, mundane, victim and lower three seal-consciousnesses. The realization of what I had become dedicated to and all that I had sacrificed toward fulfilling that dedication delivered me to a state of hopeless despair. The pain of that realization still cuts like a knife when I consider how many others have suffered the same fate; or will do so because of a dedication to RSE.

Link to complete letter:
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=871

Milligauss fluctuations on magnetometer really don't mean anything

If you were to get a counter and sit with it you will see it flucuate constantly for a myriad of reasons by as much as 100 milligauss. RSE is counting on you not to realize this or study this. The "scientific tests" are a total farce from beginning to end. A group of ghost busters hired by JZ to come out and then not even one report that can prove anything. One of the scientists served time for fraud and rape and the others are hiding...they know they had to appease JZ to a degree "A change in milligauss!!" Such a joke. You can be assured that she will never agree to an independant controlled test anywhere for one reason..she is a complete fraud. Save your money and buy the books Jz stole all her information from in the first place.