The Holiest of Holies

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The Holiest of Holies

Unread post by EMFWebmaster »

Moved from the "RSE Current Students Debate Forum"

Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 64

The Holiest of Holies
I was doing some research today because I have some old audio/video tapes I want to unload, and I came across
this title. Check out the contents. I don't even know if I could stomach listening to it.

The Holiest of Holies
CDs of Ramtha's Teachings that were previously released on audiotapes
From Advanced Evening, September 17, 1993
Previously released on audiotape (Item # 9323)
Track Sequences
Disc 1
1. Toast and Query
2. The Subconscious Mind and What Was Learned at Assay I
3. Hypnotists and What They Can Do to the Subconscious Mind
4. Capacity of the Subconscious Mind
5. The Assay I Initiation
6. Caterpillar as an Analogy for Focus
7. The Hypnotist's Ability to Entrance the Brain
8. Open-Mindedness of the Assay I Group
9. The Path of Ascension
10. The Days-To-Come Teachings as a Weeding Process
11. Sovereignty
12. Explanation of the Brain Drawing
Disc 2
1. Making Contact with Subconscious Mind
2. Neuropulse Thermo Noise
3. Initiation by the Process of Commands
4. Baptism
5. How to Know God
6. Doubt
7. Tests for Sincerity and Honor
8. Avoiding Seven Years of Famine
9. Examples for Cards
10. Instructions
11. Ramtha's Love
12. Unimpeccable Students
13. What Ram Loves About Us
14. The Alchemist

Hypnotists and What They Can Do to the Subconscious Mind
The Hypnotist's Ability to Entrance the Brain
Initiation by the Process of Commands
The Days-To-Come Teachings as a Weeding Process

I'd like to to know which book she took the hypnotist stuff out of.

17 Jun 2008 01:44 pm Tree
Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 64

yet, another RSE Classic.
Check out the contents.
wow. This was a tape that EVERYONE was encouraged to buy and listen to over and over again.


Volume: VOL. H, #1
Previous Release: Cassettes #246.1- Vol. 10, #20b/ May 21-27, 1989 #311- Vol. 12, #9a/ May 28, 1991 #312- Vol. 12, 10a/ May 29, 1991

Track Sequences
Copyright: 2007
17 Jun 2008 01:49 pm Tree
Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 64

Acceptance: the Key to Magic
wow. If this title doesn't say it all, I don't know what does.
the sad thing is, if a current student reads this, they would totally agree with this.
My point being, utter blind accpetance leads to brainwashing.
and then insert here a clever one by JZR:
"people say this is a cult. It is. Your brains NEED to be washed!!" Laughter from the crowd.

But there it is, in black and white. It is a c u l t.

Acceptance: the Key to Magic

Date: 30 March 1994 Event: Advanced Evening
Volume: 15 #11
Previous Release: New

Track Sequences
Disc 1
01. Toast
02. Michaelangelo?s God Reaching to Man
03. Devotion to the Mystery
04. The Mind of God
05. Acceptance
06. Understanding the Mind of God
07. Unfolding the Mind of God
08. Developing Mind Through Challenge and Opportunity
09. Spiritual Maturity
10. Why School: to Experience the Power that Exists Within
11. Resistance to the List Due to Habitual Attitudes
12. The Key to Magic: Acceptance
Copyright 2007
17 Jun 2008 01:57 pm Tree
Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 64

just to inform you all, since I mentioned this morning that I was going to unload some
Ramtha videos and cd's, (good thing I had several sales BEFORE today....nice for me to
the only CD I posted was the Torsion Field process.
I truly thought it was a legitimate copy. At least when I bought it , it was.
So I put it on e-bay for ten bucks.
Here is what I came home to today:

Dear __________,

You recently listed the following auction-style listing:

320263976529 - cd's

The listing was removed because it violated eBay policy. We notified members who placed bids on the item that the listing has been canceled.

The rights owner, JZK, Inc. dba Ramtha's School of Enlightenment, notified eBay that this listing violates intellectual property rights. When eBay receives a report of this type of violation, we remove the listing to comply with the law.

The rights owner reported the following information:

The Torsion Process was never released with a label such as you show. This appears to be a bootleg copy. Plese remove it immediately.

Mike Wright
Legal Services
JZK, Inc

Copyright infringement is unlawful and against eBay's policies. Copyright is the protection provided by law to the authors of creative works, such as movies, music, software, photographs and books, both published and unpublished.

Copyright owners possess the exclusive right to reproduce the copyrighted work, to distribute copies of the copyrighted work, and to perform or display the copyrighted work publicly.

eBay prohibits the listing of unauthorized copies of copyrighted works. Unauthorized copies include (but are not limited to) backup, pirated, duplicated, or bootlegged copies.

Guideline: If the product you are selling is a copy of another work that you aren't authorized to copy, don't list the item. Selling unauthorized recordings of live music is a copyright violation and is prohibited on eBay.

For more information visit the following Help page: ... rfeit.html

To take the intellectual property tutorial, please visit: ... intro.html

Please be aware that any additional violations of this policy may result in the suspension of your account. eBay understands that you may be concerned about this situation.We encourage you to contact JZK, Inc. dba Ramtha's School of Enlightenment directly if you have any questions.

You can send an email to:

For more information on how eBay protects Intellectual Property, or for additional information if you believe that your listing has been removed as a result of an error or misidentification, please visit the following Help page:

For more information on why eBay may remove a listing, please visit:

Please be assured that your listings have not been targeted in any way. Although there may be similar items currently listed on eBay, we review all listings that are reported to us by eBay members or Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) program participants. We rely on reports from our members to help maintain the safety and security of our Community. We encourage you to report any items by using the REPORT THIS ITEM button on the listing so we can quickly remove any other items that should be removed.

Thank you for your understanding.


eBay Trust & Safety

ok. So 1)Mike and RSE monitors the EMF board.
2) they care about ten bucks? on no. wait.....IT IS INTELECTUAL PROPERTY
ok...intellectually BRAINWASHED PROPERTY they are concerned with. ah....[/i]
18 Jun 2008 01:53 am Tree
Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 64

running into a 'master'
oh, and did I mention?
I tried to unload some things on a few weeks back.
They said my ad would be posted in 48 hours.
well, it was not, so I contacted the owner-Stephanie somebody.
Even though they have a disclosure on their website that not everybody who posts is a RSE student
and that they are open and fairminded assuming no one posts derogatory ads.
I contacted this Stepahnie person and was told very blatantly:
"You would be better off posting on craig's list."
I said, " Why is that?"
"You are not welcome here."
"Why is that?"
no answer.
I had seen her in the post office just a few days before.
She smiled, seemed polite, asked about my son.....
I said, " so how can you smile at me and ask about my son?"
"well, I like your son." Long pause.
and "I just think it better you post elsewhere."

Now , how is THAT for unconditionally loving others as they are taught at RSE?
It's not like I stand up with a sign at the post office or 93rd Ave with a sign during event registration saying:

If I am asked, I provide CREDIBLE sources and resources, but not one minute before.
People are free to browse the internet and take in all the information they can before
making an INFORMED decision.

18 Jun 2008 02:04 am Whatchamacallit
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 251
Location: Earth

just curious.........have you sold other rse products on ebay ?

i wonder when m.w. sleeps. he's very busy trying to "protect" territory, it seems.

18 Jun 2008 02:56 am Bud
Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 2
Location: West Coast

Greetings Tree,
Let me get this straight. This is "intellectual property" (odd term for gibberish) of jzk? Does she have an agreement with the big"r" to act as his agent? Any legal paperwork exist between the male "wrinkled one" and the female "wrinkled one'?
Whose intellect has this been evacuated from? If in fact this is jz's scat then where does the "r" begin and the "jzk" start. Who is who? How can one claim to own the property of someone without some form of proof that you are the beneficiary?
It seems like the printer saying he owns the bible.
Confusing and amusing.

18 Jun 2008 10:53 pm Tree
Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 64

Welcome back Bud! big hug!

I find your post, well, how do I say, so obvious, it is UNobvious (for those in the shcool,
that is a joke. an often touted one liner.)

and yes to your question Whatcha.

19 Jun 2008 12:06 am Whatchamacallit
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 251
Location: Earth

Along the line of the intellectual property conversation....

It just makes me laugh and shake my head at the blatant discrepancy within it all.

JZR teaches that we are all "one", because we're all connected to one another spiritually.

Questions (rhetorical ones): How does one "own" the intellectual property of a spirit (with the whether- there- even- is- a- spirit- argument- aside) if we are all "one" ? Doesn't it then follow that anyone can "connect" with that same spirit ? Why would the spirit itself want to, or need to, have allegiance to only one human being, and put itself at the mercy of that human being's HUMAN choices ? Talk about boxing oneself in ?!

Whose intellect has this been evacuated from ? Oh, the Void: The Mind of God !!!! BUT, beware. Only JZ has the right to grock that portion of the Mind of God called RAMTHA. Reminds me of the passing fad of purchasing a star in the sky.

If we can see the humor it in, there's a giggle inside. It's so ludicrous. Claiming one has "truth" and then fighting feverishly to control the territory of it, and with a price tag, no less.

Seriously, though, this was a large part, if not the basis for the lawsuit JZ had years ago with that German woman, Judy Ravell (?). Ravell claimed to be channeling Ramtha, and JZ said no ya don't, cuz he's mine-mind. It's unfortunate that JZ got away with that.

That's amazing about eBay. At times I think nothing more that can surprise me, will come from RSE, directly or indirectly. Then, it does.

19 Jun 2008 03:45 am Tree
Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 64

I am actually surpirsed no one from the staff actually bought them with petty cash because several of them are the now
forbidden "wine ceremony" Cd's and videos that she had dictated be destroyed.
They make the whole scene look absolutely assinine.

19 Jun 2008 11:13 pm Whatchamacallit
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 251
Location: Earth

Do you remember "Ramtha" telling students that it was time to clean up their act there (in school), because the teachings were going to go global ? I do. It wasn't long before I left, and it was in a similar time frame of when we were TOLD we had to destroy the Two Paths video, and the Rockumentary. Well, yeah ! They clearly showed a drunk-as-a-skunk "Ramtha" carrying on like a fool, hardly a "God".

But, I figured they were MY property because I had purchased both of them. I still have them. So, I did not, nor will not, destroy them. That's none of her/his business what I OWN. The nerve ! What's amazing is how many students listened ? Remember, we were told to destroy them because "we're on a new timeline now". What I think it really meant is that JZ didn't want "outsiders" seeing how ridiculous and low-down she really got, talking and acting like a drunken fool.

I know that those who Looooove Ramtha won't like reading what I'm about to say, but we are ALL entitled to our opinions, now, aren't we ? Also, this is a debate forum here.
It seems to me that if Ramtha is real, and if he acts like that, as a representative of what a God is, and that's the best behavior and choices we have to look forward to ... I'm scared. The ridicule-filled wine ceremonies alone, are proof to ME, that we can hold a higher standard than Ramtha can deliver in his limited view of humanity. Elsewise, he coulda/woulda/shoulda stopped that tsunami and shone grace upon those wretched people who did not deserve their deaths. Why didn't Ramtha STOP the tsunami, if "he" can say that the animals knew it was upcoming ? Why didn't "HE" know ? Or care ??? He said they deserved their DEATH. Babies, pregnant women, children, adults......deserved their deaths.

20 Jun 2008 03:36 am ex
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 29

RSE Current Students Debate Forum.i like the treads which got created here.but i watch this rubric for any valuable insight from the others so please can you move all this.because 0 posting here shows alot to me.and your obviously no current student.have funn

20 Jun 2008 06:07 am Tree
Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 64

i posted the contents of the cd's currently for sale to see if any current students have any input as to the content itself.
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Unread post by G2G »

MW must not have anything better to do, or jrk is feeling frenzied. I've purchased several items from e-bay re ramtha teachings, and this was after I left the school because I wanted to see "the two paths" and read "Loving Yourself into Life," among others. I still have them, but still have not yet read or watched them in entirety. I needed to reach a place where I was no longer feeling so confused. But, fact remains, there have been *many* listings on e-bay in the past of these products.

I'm not current yet I still keep receiving their emails. Oddly, I didn't when I was still current but had already left on my own and joined EMF. Last I read in the master's connection letter (which I don't often open), there was an auction to be held for CSE and up for auction was an hour with, well, the big guy! The current bidding at that time (this was at least a couple of weeks ago) was $12,500.00. I don't know what the final bid was and didn't go back to check. What more can I say.

:?: :?: :?:
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972
California Dreamin'
Posts: 338
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:15 pm

Where Angels Fear to Tread

Unread post by California Dreamin' »

After spending many hours reading the original and the current EMF message boards, last night I watched (for the first time in 5 or 6 years this "rockumentary." What an eye-opener it was for me to view this so many years after I dropped out of the school. My observations:

1) Ramtha physicially appeared more like JZ than the Ramtha of old whom I dearly loved. JZ's voice repeatedly bled into Ramtha's voice, and even some of the intonations of JZ's voice and southern accent and pronunciations came through.

2) The wine ceremonies on this video were truly appalling -- Ramtha simulated a man masturbating, and made many unnecessary, vile sexual references. I'm not a prude, but some of the things he was talking about I would never wish to share with anyone, even my husband because they were so dirty and disgusting. There were children in those audiences, too, and at one point, he/she was even kissing a baby. I thought the idea was to rise above our first three seals -- not to reinforce them by having our veils dropped and drinking all that wine.

3) Also, even though I am not a participant in an organized religion, I accept and believe that everyone is entitled their own belief system. I would never put down (as Ramtha does in this video) other peoples' choices and paths to reach God.

4) There was nothing spiritual about this video.

I can see why JZR wants this video destroyed - It could harm the school's reputation big time. But in hindsight, I'm really glad to have had the opportunity to watch it. I can't believe I ever fell for that crap and how easily led I was during my 13 years with the school.

The Ramtha that drew me into the school is not the entity that I saw in the video. The old Ram seems to have left sometime after the wine ceremonies commenced.

Now, I'm going to watch The Two Paths.
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »


You posted, "I can see why JZR wants this video destroyed - It could harm the school's reputation big time."

Yes, exactly. When we were told to destroy the two videos, it was upon the heels of the comment (excuse) that we needed (JZ needed!!) to "clean up our act" because the teachings were going to go more global. It was all about "business and marketing".

I even had a person tell me that they were privvy to a mtg where this topic was discussed; the business decisions about going global and related topics from that time period that was clearly JZ rowing the boat, not "Ramtha".

I'm glad you're out ! Nobody has to tell you (as you already said), just much the freedom and new perspective changes your viewpoint. As David comments in a recent post, we weren't JOINING, we got recruited. In the beginning, they seem so nice.
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Unread post by G2G »

There is at least one video, from perhaps a couple of years ago, where jz is "supposed" to jr. Well, "Oh my heck!" slid right of he/she/its mouth. What HUGE red flag. 8) 8) 8)
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972
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Unread post by tree »

oddly enough, just before shipping one of my copies of the Rockumentary off to a very happy e-bay Ramster last week, I watched
it as well.
I was pretty stunned.
That masterbating thing was totally rude, the debasing of other religions, the "eye-to-eye" dancing just appaling,
the "logic" ('s logic) about all those people dying in all of those wars,
and the f-bombs....amazingly just utterlly appaling the behavior of JZ.
And to think I believed all of that at the time.
That kissing the baby thing was WAY out of sync/place.

I started to watch the Self-Betrayal tapes as well.
Of course it starts with some "Academic" treatise by Dr. Joe and Miceal. No wonder why my friends and family thought I was
competely off my rocker when I showed them these videos. They make absolutly NO sense to the rest of tne non-entrenched world.
I could not even stomach to start watching the wine ceremony.
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