The EnlightenMeFree (EMF) Online Debate Forum

It seems to me from both my partner and now Swami that Ramsters have some particular fear of being controlled, which is amusing as they are allowing themselves to be manipulated and controlled by JZ and her act. My partner has been manipulated by women over the years to an extent I find astonishing, he seems unaware of what people are capable of to get what they want and Swami too seems to have this same naivety as he found the concept that JZ was acting almost incomprehensable.

Once you understand that people are capable of manipulation and control then you don't have to worry anymore, just keep your eyes open and apply some critical thinking to situations. Yes its nice to trust people, but dont be stupid about it.

Do all Ramsters have that ridiculous belief that you can't think something unless you are capable of it yourself? Every time I suggest to my partner - oh she is doing this because of that (possibly in reference to his daughter's mother - a champion manipulator) he says "you could only know that if you do it yourself" I don't know about anyone else but that is a nonsense statement.

Yes, it is definitely a nonsense statement but also to be expected. Everything you perceive in the outside world -in the mind of a ramster- has to first exist within you. It's just like saying 'it takes one to know one' basically. To some degree it may even be true, we can easily recognize in others what we ourselves have experienced but we also have imagination, empathy and sensitivity so it doesn't not necessitate that we are 'being' the other person.
For example, I read once that many people (naturally) find it hard to understand what might motivate a terrorist or murderer. However, everyone understands the mixture of thrill and dread in playing a game of 'boo!' or going on a haunted house ride. When I look at it that way it doesn't take much imagination to begin to comprehend what might drive some people to do what they do. Understanding and recognition is a far cry from actually being, which is something any good author can tell you.

As far as the control thing, I wonder if they could be suspicious of being controlled exactly because in actuality they are controlled... just not where they think they are...? Not sure if that makes sense...

I have noticed this phenomenon with my daughter. If I question her new beliefs, in any way, she resonds that I am trying to manipulate her as she has been manipulated all her life, but now that she is her own 'individual' she is no longer susceptible to manipulation. Of course, this is after telling me that I am just 'ignorant' and do not know all the ancient wisdom she has aquired in less than 6 months. Yet, now that she is immune to manipulation she has been enticed to leave her former friends, family, and husband, except for her 2 teenage children who are going with her, and move 3000 miles away where she will have no home, no job, and expects that "Ramtha will provide". She says her husband will sell his business and property and join them in a few weeks, though it has been on the market for a year with no prospects, but of course, she is NOT being manipulated.