The EnlightenMeFree (EMF) Online Debate Forum

Joe:

Just wondering how you might compare holotropic breathing, kundalini exercise and Knights C&E. I'm no expert but it all sounds like a bunch of hyperventile until you pass out work to me. What is your take?

I remain:

Leemar - true to Astro and a score of lofty sounding titles

I'm sure that Joe will speak for himself. But, I want to just chime in a quick comment here. If you're familiar at all with hatha yoga and pranayama...it correlates with a number of techniques at RSE.

A quick google of these terms, if you even need to do that, will net you an explanation.

Now, prema yoga would be closer to what the earlier teachings were about.

3 million sites related to heavy breathing and probably 3 billion sites related to even heavier breathing. Why RSE?

I remain:

Astro's best friend and all the rest

Why not ?

As people have posted about before, many/most of the RSE teachings can be found "in the public domain".

Ahhhh, another viewpoint of the term, "There's nothing new under the sun, Horatio!"

(That's an inside joke for ex-students)

I posted that tidbit on Factnet:

Once again a pervasive and endemic acceptance of the most base and suspect approach by RSE students.

This is the whole Dawn Fazende, American Gold Mining, Og Mandino puke.

Read this FACTNET thread and make your own conclusion. To Leemar it is the same crap

See:

http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/ ... 1090226985

I remain:

Leemar, Commander of the Galactic Force and Astro has a bum ear so we need to see the vet tommorow - no herbal remedies in this galaxy.

I was referring to "Ramtha" telling students many times, "There's nothing new under the sun, Horatio."

Of course, it has the RSE spin.

sorry, took me a while to find this.
Stan Grof and his wife Christina Grof organized their Marin Co based Holotropic Breathwork soon after LSD became illegal. Stan was the Tim Leary of Europe, in a manner of speaking, but he had better medical cred. Grof discovered that he could cause a similar 'expansion' of consciousness with hyperventilation and it was legal to boot. The US Gov cannot outlaw air so Stan is home free because air is free

The Grofs have a 'breath' business with franchises. they fit into the transpersonal psychology clique of transformational 'therapies.' I think they attract a rather elite base due to costs of 'therapy.' Or I should say, pseudo-therapy.
http://www.holotropic.com/

I do not trust any therapy that has to alter my brain chemistry first to work.

I took LSD a few times in the late 1960s, last "trip" was around 1971. The first one was the most profound, then they diminished in impact. My last trip was boring because I knew what to expect and the cosmic insights became more two-dimensional like cartoon psychology. I could not wait to get straight again. Many hippies I knew had the same result and quit the tripping, not to mention the desire to avoid the possibility of harm.

I bring this up because Grof made a career out of the alleged insights he got form his first LSD trip in the 1950s.
He said:
"My first LSD session in 1956, when I was a beginning psychiatrist, was a critical landmark and turning point for me and since then my life has never been the same."
http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v11n2/11222gro.html
This url is the infamous interview Grof did in 1984 with the discoverer of LSD, Albert Hoffman.

In my opinion, Grof took LSD and he never "got over it."

Now, prema yoga would be closer to what the earlier teachings were about.

Whatcha - I've googled prema yoga and can only find is as names people have given to their businesses - haven't found a definition. Can you tell me more? I'm trying to understand more about what it was in the early teachings that I loved... Thank you! Sara

Sara-

I don't know how you search my post of a story I wrote while listening to NPR
this past summer.

The conclusion I got from that story,
and I will try to find the post is that,
any OOB experience or "other worldy" experience
is used as reinforcement of enlightening things or teachings
BUT...
in reality is tricks by the brain,
whether it be purposely induced or by sheer accident
(or job related, as my post indicated by these fighter pilots).

When you put these weird breathing spells, techniques, or hyperventilating
situations on the brain, the brain can do with it what it wants.
Has nothing to do with subconscious thoughts, etc.
It is just a hodge podge of mis firing...to the point of death
for the fighter pilots.
When C+E breathing is introduced,
ALONG with Rambles suggestions,
it makes for awesome other - worldly experiences
that justify the teachings
AND
the continuation of attending retreats at the Ranch....
"to be further inspired" by stuff
that is TOTALLY made up
in the brain
by these breathing techniques
(or loss of breath, in the case of the pilot's g-forces).

That 15 minutes in the parking lot waiting for my pizza
was the teeny price to pay
for a 19 year enlightenment.

All, for a pizza.



and all along, I thought I was solely here for enlightenment.

"prema" means divine love.

i had a conversation with a woman years ago, whose mom taught yoga. she taught more than one approach. i recall this woman (ex-rse student) telling me (shortly before she left rse) that it was her opinion that her mom was closer to "the truth" than rambles. she said that the kick-butt approach to enlightenment (arduous disciplines, being stronger than your body, etc) was the path of hatha yoga. prema yoga is the art of living....to make a point here...from the 4th seal and higher.

in other words, if we truly lived from a place of divine love toward ALL, then that would be the goal/journey of the prema yoga path.

on quite another note...i'll be back soon from my posting vacation.

Tree - couldn't find your story but would like to - do you remember in which month you wrote it?

Questioning and finding alternative explanations is coming thick and fast, it's been just a month or so...

Whatcha - thank you for the clarification - how sad that "divine love" was what hooked me and others into the "school", and there is so little of it there!

Look forward to your coming back off your posting vacation.

Sara

In my opinion, Grof took LSD and he never "got over it."

Hey Joe...

I'm still trying to "get over it'....!


Here is an interesting discussion about the effects of different forms of meditation.
posted on the old EMF forum.

"Psychology of religious genius' by Joe Szimhart.

link.
http://pub43.bravenet.com/forum/3633497066/show/665753

David

RSE does not appear to inform students of precautions with its C & E breathing technique but promotes it to everyone.

The Holotropic Breathwork developed by Stanislov and Cristina Grof has a list of precautions. (Kylea Taylor is a certified Holotropic Breathwork Practitioner and was a senior trainer in the Grof Transpersonal Training from 1993-2000.)

Quote:

As listed in The Breathwork Experience by Kylea Taylor, breathwork is contraindicated in the following cases.

1. Cardiovascular Problems including abnormal and untreated blood pressure
2. Glaucoma
3. Pregnancy
4. Recent surgery
5. Epilepsy (Some cases may be allowed if okayed by healthcare practitioner and breathwork facilitator.)
6. Asthma with any slight cardiovascular problem. If used, inhalers should be brought.
7. Mental Illnesses may contraindicate breathwork participation, particularly in cases of Bipolar Depression and paranoid personality disorder. Breathwork may be contraindicated in cases of mental illness where there is not on-going support either in a residential setting or outpatient treatment. Consult with the breathwork facilitator for more information.

http://www.holisticmed.com/inner/breath/holotropic.html

http://kyleataylor.com/about/


RSE uses similar music to Holotropic Breathwork. Interesting to watch here (from 6.10):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5lwnIUl ... re=related


There are also similar precautions with pranayama (yogic breathing).

Quote:

People diagnosed with a dissociative disorder should not attempt advanced forms of pranayama (yogic breathing) without the supervision of an experienced teacher. Some yogic breathing exercises may trigger symptoms of derealization or depersonalization in these patients.

http://www.minddisorders.com/Py-Z/Yoga.html


Quote:

There have been several criticisms of breathwork's safety, with critics pointing out the well-known physiological dangers associated with hyperventilation, such as hypoxia. There is little peer reviewed scientific evidence of its effectiveness in treating illness.[2] Although altering the breathing can be relaxing to some people, hyperventilation is also a symptom of panic disorder.

Some psychiatrists have suggested that more extreme forms of breathwork might bring about psychotic episodes in some people. Other believers in the earlier esoteric ideas underlying much Breathwork have also raised concerns about unskilful or premature psychospiritual awakening of patients or meditators.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breathwork


In conclusion, as with other breathwork exercises, the same precautions or contraindications should apply to ?C & E? breathwork.