The EnlightenMeFree (EMF) Online Debate Forum

I can't stand the consciousness of RSE incorporated but what I finds even more incredible is that in the great land of liberty and hope that I have enough evidence legally to incriminate a cult leader and it is almost unheard of.

Incredibly enough Ms. Knight's attorney has done that however to convict someone needs evidence and supporting witnesses.

In my community the aged will leave no stone unturned to fight against injustice and oppression. Almost no one connected with this site will write to the only legal avenue suitable namely the Attorney General's office and lodge an objection for reasons unknown. It is obvious people do not have the money for another legal type of action so it is the only avenue available and legally it is the avenue for the poor in the USA.

I consider it is pathetic beyond belief that almost no one will even try to stand up for their rights in a land of liberty, truth justice and freedom. It is beyond belief and the mind control of Ms. Knight's school infest the thinking of people who have left.

People are criminally assaulted in that school and sexually molested. They are drunk and disorderly and indulge in under age smoking. They take hazardous medical preparations and are advised to lose money in scams that normal people would usually beware of. They also induce suicide in people. People can't stand up on their own and the people on this website refuse to get together to support those people and to annihilate the school. It begs the question why.

Ms. Knight is getting away with everything and her customer base is expanding despite this website. Sound reasoning would think it was worth getting together. None of the worst affected people could ever have a reasonable life after. For some it is just emotional trauma and knowing there is no justice.

In the community, in which I live, the corporation that is at war with the people take vendettas out on the community and harasses them and they will not give up despite it.

we all made poor choises during we were rse students to the benefit of a fraude and liear. sadly she has a bunch of lawyers and employes to protect her and clear her act. the thing to beat her is to get ouer lives back together and call her on her bs. i too wish she would be exposed in a court of law but i clearly have not the time and financies to do so. both got wasted enough on her. sadly there are people who like her services.

Ex, The legal profession is not what it appears. The legal profession is an illusion. Most people think they fight for legal principles however it is not the case. They fight to deceive the other side. They do not actually stand up for legal rights. They stand up for their client and try to defeat the other side.

Judith's lawyer uses the same strategy. I have seen a Queen's counsel (the highest paid lawyer in this country) defeated in court because a few residents here testified for the other side. the Queens counsel is a manipulative liar and has an arsenal of weaponry that deludes the other side and preys on their belief system that he is somebody to be respected.

Judith's lawyer is using a manipulative tool to delude the public and the legal profession uses the same strategy.

Another part of the problem is that lawyers depend upon information that is written and the written evidence is deficient of facts therefore they are being misled to some degree as well. If someone knows the facts and has direct experience it is not hard to outhink a lawyer.

I understand where voidgate is coming from and would like to throw my 2 cents in. Not having attended, I cannot do anything else but give witness to the affects on myself and my family.

Yes, it would be a long-shot, yes, probably it is beyond the statutes of limitations for most, yes, JZK uses the legal system to benefit her in any way possible.

However, if the Attorney General receives nothing then they are aware of nothing.

Voidgate, I know you filed a detailed complaint and took a lot of time to do so.

However, how about simply writing a short note (for all those who have not done so and feel like they have been taken advantage of) Saying something like. "I paid for and participated in a "school" which made promises which were not true, and lead me to believe things in order to continue to take money from me. The consequences of this have been devastating to myself and my family and I would like information as to how to proceed so that this practice is dis- continued and others are not effected in the future. Please inform me as to how I should proceed."

And then proceed as instructed.

If the Attorney General began to pile up letters like this over time. I would think that eventually someone would take a closer look. Even if your complaint was past the statute of limitations, I would think that the AG would eventually worry about something more devastating landing in his/her lap. If that did occur, and there was a record of complaints going back over the years, he/she might be in deep yogurt (*$%#).

Thoughts anyone?

jzrs inc simply makes buisness as usual. fair trade? keeping word? are not nessesary apliable to her scam or a comparebal buisness [carselling sientologie multilevelmarketing comes to mind]. people who got in her way got sued, badmouthed and just made impossible to live in the comunety. why do you think the current major takes even legal attacks without digging deeper into jzrs inc? he has probably all the lawyers and adwise he can get at his fingertips. jzr got up to now away with practising medicine without any qualification, driving people into suicide, wrecking buisnesses, abusing children tru to splitting up relationships and giving them an edjucation based on rambelieves and murder [i realy wish they would investigate clint eastwoods sons death]. but since she has a well running army around her to do the dirtwork and protect her it is sheer imposible to get her. since this is my oppinion it probably doesent fitt in this part of the board. but i am still confused about voidgate asking to go along legal avenues and saing in the next post how corrupt the legal system is. see sientologie they have a wrecked reputation through exposure. but they still operate.

JTR, I have thought of it many times as the whole procedure can be minimized as stated on another piece of writing (where the AG response proved intent ). However I have had so many legal complaints to do in the neighbourhood I have not had time. Other people in my community do other jobs such as press releases, or putting together meticulous archives. Also JTR, there has been absolutely no support whatsoever so it is the least important job.

Ex, The way it works here is there is a lot of corruption or negligence and the way to deal with it is that people have to challenge that person or people in writing and get a response in writing. then if they will not deal with the situation legally and there is proof one them goes to a higher legal authority. Sometimes the threat of an investigation is enough and it works when nothing else has.

For example I went to a meeting with the full time employed lawyer and chief Environmental health officer of the neighbouring council. I had sent him a letter prior of observable legal planning violations and asked him at the meeting if he had done anything about giving them an on the spot fine or taking the company to court and prosecuting them. He told me some baloney such as he was taking into account a long term picture (an ENDLESS legal case) and was doing nothing about it. I have proof he would not so I will take it to the ombudsman ( sort of like the AG - independent legal investigators under parliamentary law) which investigates government departments and corruption, negligence etc.

I know the local Fire Marshal in Yelm has no interest in enforcing Fire Laws . People could never get out of the arena in an emergency. So the next step if he is wrapped around JZK INc.s little finger is to find out who is the authority over the Fire Marshal's performance as he is a public servant.
In this current case in my neighbourhood where the lawyers are not dealing with the case legally they can be outhought by joining the prosecution and presenting the residents case to the judge without using a lawyer and it as also possible to get a total environmental audit on the company in question as the overseeing council does very poor investigation. To sum up you always need to go to the authority that regulates the authority provided you have evidence. It can be tedious but in the long term it is better than putting up with what is happening.

ex,
What makes you think that one of Clint Eastwoods sons was a student of RSE? Don't you think e
Eastwood would be the first one to call for an investigation into his sons death?

because i knew his girlfriend who told me the story. he was on medication which dident tolerate alcohol. he got back to drinking through the wineceremonies and died from it in a private home.

Ex and Jtrl, according to the reference below, Clint Eastwood himself has been to see Ramtha, too.

http://www.ccel.us/newage.ch6.html

From Pages 52 & 53 above:

MacLaine has also flipped to the channel of Ramtha, the alleged 35,000-year-old ascended master from the lost continent of Atlantis. "The Ram" speaks through former housewife J.Z. Knight of Yelm, Washington.

Knight, who has been dubbed the Tammy Faye Bakker of the New Age movement, has profited considerably by having a direct channel to the stars. Besides MacLaine, her clientele reportedly has included Burt Reynolds, Clint Eastwood, Richard Chamberlain, the late Joan Hackett, Shelley Fabares, and Mike Farrell of the television series M*A*S*H.16 And she counts actress Linda Evans, who bought a home near Knight's in order to be in touch with Ramtha, among her good friends.17



About the legal issues,

http://www.enlightenmefree.com/phpbb3/p ... c.php?t=40

Response from WA A.G. in Nov 2006, copied from above:

Dear name deleted:

As you will note in the attached copy of the response we received, Ramtha?s School Of Enlightenment declines to make adjustment of your complaint for the reasons outlined.

We realize you may disagree with the firm's position, but our office does not have the authority under law to force a resolution on the parties. We regret that we are unable to Provide further assistance to you in this situation.

We do not have the authority to represent individuals as their attorney, nor may we act as a iudge or arbiter in individual disputes. You may want to contact an attorney if you wish to pursue this matter. You may also wish to contact the Dispute Resolution Center nearest you. This
Community based , private, non-profit organization provides voluntary mediation and conciliation services which may be helpful in this situation.

We appreciate your bringing this matter to our attention. Your complaint will remain a part of our record of this firm's business practices.

Gail Feagins
Complaint Analyst
Consumer Protection Division
(253) 593-2904



The first two paragraphs from JZK?s attorney in Jan 2007, copied from above link:

Dear Ms. Feagins:

I represent J.Z. Knight, JZK,Inc., and the Ramtha School of Enlightenment, who have referred the referenced complaint to me for reply.
Ms. name deleted: complaint comprises some 16 pages of single-spaced type, is largely supported by hearsay reports regarding events at the School from persons who have not joined in the complaint, and is so general and diffuse that identifying the substantive basis of her actual complaint is quite difficult. However, it appears that her chief complaint is that after intermittent attendance at RSE events from 1988 through 20O5 she has concluded that the Teachings imparted by the School do not "work? in the sense that they have failed to improve
her life.

As a threshold matter, it is my informed opinion that Ms. Knight's School, at which the Teachings of Ramtha are presented, is religious in nature and hence beyond the regulatory authority of the Attorney General. Although Ms. Knight does not represent that the School is an established religion, the body of Teachings developed through her over the last several decades and regularly presented at the School represent, collectively, a spiritual belief system related to man's place in the universe and his relationship with God. As such, I believe the advocacy of the Teachings are clearly protected by Article 1, S 1 1 of the Washington State Constitution, which provides in relevant part:
Absolute freedom of conscience in all matters of religious sentiment, belief and worship, shall be guaranteed to every individual, and no one shall be molested or disturbed in person or property on account of religion; but the liberty of conscience hereby secured etc



Voidgate, thank you for your efforts in writing to the AG. In my opinion, based on the above responses, it seems that the AG does not have the authority for our complaints. We also need to provide REAL evidence for complaints, preferably specific complaints that clearly show JZ/RSE has broken the law.

The difficulty is that JZ?s attorney has mentioned about the ?religious nature? of RSE teachings which is an excuse she uses. Another excuse JZ loves is that she is in a trance when she channels Ramtha so she does not remember! She got away with this excuse. Example below:

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/ram10.shtml?rand=12041



I thought from this post by David that anyone interested in legal action was to email EMF.

http://www.enlightenmefree.com/phpbb3/p ... c.php?t=39

Copied from above:

I had posted earlier on this thread?

Quote:

If you are ?genuine?....! and are seriously considering taking legal action against JZ Knight/RSE, I recommend you contact Whatchamacallit.
Your confidentiality will be respected. Thank you Watcha--

If you have already sent information to Whatchamacallit... would your please re-send it to....

Email: enlightenmefree@gmail.com



Voidgate, there may be ex-RSE students working on this privately and not discussing this openly on EMF...


Caterpillar

Cat,

We appreciate your bringing this matter to our attention. Your complaint will remain a part of our record of this firm's business practices.

The fact that they retain a record of the complaint is an important on even if they are unable to act on it. At least there is a record that is developed by a recognized state authority rather then a web address. I don't think further complaints would do any harm to the matter and might possibly improve the possibility of future potential action.

In addition, JZ's atty. has provided an outline of what should not be included such as hearsay items or second hand recounting of events. So if the complaint, or, inquiry does not contain those they might stand a better chance. perhaps asking for some examples of what might be actionable by the agency re consumer fraud might be helpful.

Also, I am aware you only cited the reference to eastwoods name but that doesn't necessarily mean he went. he may have only been at a party where jz "appeared as R in the early days along with other hollywood types. Or, the reference may not be reliable if there is not additional corroboration

well i havent considert that clint eastwoods son might be a ramfabrication like the guy jzr called 007. so it might not be clints real son. the death of this peorson is fact.

Under Student Deaths in Abuse forum,

http://www.enlightenmefree.com/phpbb3/p ... c.php?t=18

Whatthebleep mentioned Clint Eastwood look-alike guy...

Quoted from Tyger:

"Some of the stories you are posting are personally known to me. I talked to Clint Eastwood's son a few days (by phone) before he died. He was bipolar and according to an eyewitness who was hanging around him at the time, overdosed on his medication."



Clint Eastwood's son or not but he looked like him...

Ex, I also bought the 007 story.

JZ is a great storyteller...

the death of this person is

Tragically he ignored his doctors warnings that if he continued to drink he was risking his life...!
But his strength to fight his alcoholism was completely swept aside by the RSE brainwashing....
Alcoholics attending the "wine ceremonies" were encouraged to drink their way out of their addiction ....

Judith is indirectly responsible for the deaths of many many RSE students,
She and her RSE corporation are getting away with manslaughter and religious fraud by hiding behind the very laws that protect the freedom of religion in this country.

David.

Manslaughter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manslaughter

David, To be honest there are so many officials that are incompetent, don't know their own laws, don't cross reference their laws it is quite possible that a lot of people writing to the AG will not work. I also know from reading the Washington AG website that if the AG does not do his job their is a higher authority that one can go to.

It can be a tedious procedure and people do have to pool their resources and they do have to unite in purpose and it take effort. it is also possible that the lack of action and making assumptions that it will not succeed means it never will. I perceive if I wrote a better complaint to the AG on the upgrade information and the attorney actually wanted to investigate I would have no one that would support it.

People prefer to believe they have no legal authority. Joseph Glandon opposed Judith in court represented himself and won. It took him a lot of research. I knew him personally and knew a close friend well. Judith's people turned up at court. She did not even bother. Good on you Joe for actually standing up for your rights.

I do not believe M. Kraukl at all. The students are told it is not a religion. Most can testify in a court of law to that. Yes Judith is likely to lie and yes she can be outnumbered.

Hello everyone

Apart from Jeff Knight and the Arabian horse cases, I am unaware of anyone else taking legal action against JZK. Does anyone know if there were other court cases in the past filed against JZK or RSE?

JZ seems to be the one that sues her students or competitors, and wins most of them?

Based on the responses from the AG and JZ?s attorney, it seems that it is preferable to lodge in personal complaints and not secondhand stories from other students. Some of the complaints in the original letter were secondhand. If that is the case, then someone has to find the students concerned and get them to write their own letter to the AG. Also for the students that have died as a result of the teachings, their relatives will have to be contacted so they can send a letter to the AG themselves.

Voidgate, I can understand what you mean. It will take some time and a combined effort, and not everyone wants to participate.

JZ?s attorney replied that the teachings are ?religious in nature?. He acknowledged ?Ms Knight does not represent the School is an established religion?? He also mentioned the teachings ?represent, collectively, a spiritual belief system?? Very clever use of words. He is not saying it is a religion but is ?religious in nature?. Then he brings in the Washington State Constitution? May all be BS?

Does anyone have the full transcripts to the Jeff Knight and the Arabian horse court cases or know where I can access them in full? That is VERY important information and I would love to read what was being said.

Caterpillar

caterpillar posted.....

Apart from Jeff Knight and the Arabian horse cases, I am unaware of anyone else taking legal action against JZK. Does anyone know if there were other court cases in the past filed against JZK or RSE?

I remember around 1995 Judith tried to sue the AARP for defamation,, she lost
here is some info off the web....

J.Z. Knight v. American Association of Retired Persons, Thurston Co. (Wash. Superior Court). In 1995, the channeler of ?Ramtha? sued the AARP for defamation arising from an article in Modern Maturity magazine on cults. Obtained summary judgment dismissing all of plaintiff's claims. Plaintiff admitted that she was a public figure. She was unable to show that any statement was publicized with actual malice. No appeal was taken.

K&L Gates : Professionals : Stephen A. Smith
http://www.klgates.com/professionals/de ... ional=3717

David.

Caterpillar

I believe this is the line Judith tried to sue the AARP over....!

Marshall drifted toward Ramtha, a New Age cult based on the teachings of J.Z. Knight,

David.
______________________________



by Catherine Collins and Douglas Franz, Modern Maturity, June 1994, v37 n3 p22(10), (C) 1994 American Association of Retired Persons
When someone leaves a cult, his problems are just beginning," says Rudin of the American Family Foundation. "It can leave a very big hole in a person's life. You've cut yourself off from other people. And to recover you must rebuild those bridges. You have to rebuild your self-esteem and deal with the rage and the shame. And sometimes you have to take care of the practical things: jobs, credit, bank accounts, a place to live, health care, etc."
Caroline Marshall (*) knows all that. "My life was undergoing radical change. The Pittsburgh (Pennsylvania) company I worked for was in Chapter 11 and I was losing my job. A personal relationship was breaking up and my children were all away and busy with their own lives." Marshall drifted toward Ramtha, a New Age cult based on the teachings of J.Z. Knight, a Washington state housewife who claims to be the entity through which a 35,000-year-old warrior spirit speaks. "Before I knew it, I was caught up. It's far easier than people think," she says.
Thus at the age of 58, Marshall left the east and moved to Washington to pursue her studies of Ramtha. It was a decision that cost her two years and approximately $30,000 in savings.
As Marshall's involvement increased, she became more and more concerned. The warnings of impending natural and economic disasters were extremely intense and included talk about a race of underground space aliens conspiring with the United States government and feeding on human beings.
Finally, Marshall's sons helped her make a break.

link...
http://www.caic.org.au/biblebase/apocol ... lderly.htm

A student sued JZ but I do not know what the verdict was.


Spokane Woman Who Didn't Die Sues Channeler, May 21, 1993

A Spokane woman suing a self-described "spirit channeler" says she left her husband and job and depleted her retirement funds after being told she would die by 1990.

Betty Nunnery was acting on advice given by Ramtha, an ancient warrior spirit who gives guidance through spirit channeler J.Z. Knight of Yelm, Thurston County, the lawsuit says.

Nunnery was persuaded to "release control of her mental and emotional well-being to the entity `Ramtha,' " according to the suit.

Tacoma lawyer John Messina filed the suit this week in Thurston County Superior Court, claiming Knight engaged in an unfair trade practice.

The suit seeks compensation for Nunnery's loss of earnings from her former job, her lost future earnings, $10,000 in punitive damages and other costs.

According to the suit, Nunnery suffers from emotional and mental disability, pain, discomfort and anguish requiring medical care and treatment.

It says that in July 1985, Nunnery attended a "Ramtha event" in Phoenix, where she "was among a number of people who were put in a circle and was told by `Ramtha' that she would die before 1990."

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource. ... ug=1702446



Former Teacher Sues Spiritualist Knight, June 2, 1993

A former schoolteacher is suing J.Z. Knight, claiming the Yelm spiritualist and the 35,000-year-old warrior she "channels" defrauded her.

Betty Nunnery, 46, contends in her lawsuit filed in Thurston County Superior Court that Knight and the omniscient being Ramtha induced her to give up her career, marriage, home and assets under false pretenses.

Followers of Ramtha say the being is channeled through Knight, who relays his spiritual counsel at gatherings and seminars Knight conducts.

Nunnery, who formerly taught junior-high-school students in Spokane, said she learned of Knight and Ramtha in 1984 when she viewed a videotape of a session with Ramtha. She attended her first live session with Knight in January 1985. She attended 27 more in Yelm, about 15 miles southeast of Olympia, and outside of Washington through summer 1989, she said.

Nunnery said she became so caught up in Knight's teachings that she left her job in 1987 and divorced her husband, John, in 1988. Her attorney, John Messina, said Nunnery spent her assets, including her retirement fund, while under Knight's influence.

He said she remains under psychiatric care nearly four years after her last Ramtha session. "She's still in a very delicate condition," he said.

The suit seeks unspecified damages.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource. ... ug=1704529

nice find. r there more sceletons in the closet?? is it possieble to find the continuence of the story?

Hi Ex

I did a search in ?Washington courts? by typing Thurston Superior court, civil case, 1993 and Nunnery, Betty.

http://dw.courts.wa.gov/index.cfm?fa=ho ... lashform=0


This is what came up (Case from May 18, 1993 to April 1, 1996):

http://dw.courts.wa.gov/index.cfm?fa=ho ... 4B2928A2AA


08-01-1994, Notice Of Intent To Withdraw, Messina, John Louis

10-02-1995, Order Of Dismissal

04-01-1996, Hearing Stricken: In Court Other (wtm) Cc Nastansky


John Messina is the attorney for Betty Nunnery. I am not familiar with the legal jargon but does it mean that the case was dismissed?


Apart from Douglas Kaukl, JZ seemed to have hired F. Lee Bailey (O.J. Simpson?s attorney)!


About F. Lee Bailey

Disbarment

Bailey's visible public profile has come both as a result of the cases he has taken and for his own personal actions. In 2001 he was disbarred in the state of Florida, with reciprocal disbarment in Massachusetts in 2002. The Florida disbarment was the result of his handling of stock in the DuBoc marijuana case. Bailey was found guilty of 7 counts of attorney misconduct by the Florida Supreme Court. Bailey had transferred a large portion of DuBoc's assets into his own accounts, using the interest gained on those assets to pay for personal expenses. In March 2005, Bailey filed to regain his law license in Massachusetts. The book Florida Pulp Nonfiction details the peculiar facts of the DuBoc case along with extended interviews with Bailey that include his own defense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._Lee_Bailey (Link may not work on EMF but just google)