Yelm NV News: Ex-RSE group battles subpoena

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Yelm NV News: Ex-RSE group battles subpoena

Unread post by David McCarthy » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:04 pm

Ex-RSE group battles subpoena
By Steven Wyble
news3@yelmonline.com
Published: Friday, March 8, 2013 4:45 PM PST
Ex-members of the Ramtha School of Enlightenment are fighting subpoenas sent to Facebook by JZK, Inc., seeking information on members of a private Facebook group.

Lawyers for JZK, Inc., the company owned by Yelm Channeler JZ Knight, subpoenaed Facebook seeking information on members of the private Facebook group Enlightened Europa (EE) — a self-described support group for ex-RSE members who describe the school as a cult — in relation to their case against former RSE student Virginia Coverdale, who distributed a video of Knight on YouTube.

Lawyers for JZK, Inc., have also filed a motion to compel testimony for Yelm Pastor and Nisqually Valley News columnist Jeff Adams, who refused to testify during his deposition without a lawyer present, according to the motion. A hearing is scheduled Friday morning.

EE is “a private online equivalent of a mental health recovery group,” said Breckan Scott, a Yelm lawyer representing members of the group. “It’s a lot like … (Alcoholics Anonymous) for former members of the RSE school who for whatever reason have left and (are) trying to put their lives together and move on from this organization.”

Voicemails left for lawyers representing JZK, Inc., were not returned by press time.

Scott contends members of Enlightened Europa have a right to privacy the same way members of other support groups do.

It’s “very much like Budweiser having a breach of contract dispute with somebody who happened to be in AA and then other members of AA being subpoenaed by Budweiser to basically produce all this private and identifying information,” she said.

Scott plans to file a motion to quash the subpoenas and for a protective order by the end of the week, she said.

“We want the subpoena quashed, but we also want the court to say, hey, this is not appropriate discovery; this is intrusive into people’s lives who did not purposefully avail themselves of the courts, who have no reason to believe that when they were participating in this therapeutic group that they would be exposed to involvement in a lawsuit,” she said.

Several members of the group received a message from an attorney representing Facebook informing them Facebook would “wait for 21 days before taking any action with respect to the subpoena. If you do not provide me with a copy of a filed motion objecting to the subpoena within 21 days, Facebook may process the subpoena and disclose information to the extent permitted or required by law.”

The subpoena asks for information that would identify participants of the group, including every IP address allocated to users for the past six months; the names, email addresses, phone numbers and physical addresses of users; and dates user accounts were established, Scott said. Transcripts of messages are not requested in the subpoena because that is prohibited by the Stored Communications Act, she added

“They’re really pushing the line as much as they can, or they think they can, not to run afoul of the Stored Communications Act,” she said.

Scott said health professionals and mental health providers participate in EE, and added the group is not open to everyone, as moderators must add members before they can contribute or see other members’ posts.

“They have a very specific purpose and mission statement, which is therapeutic recovery,” she said. “It is limited to people who are seeking recovery.”

Scott cited Washington State Superior Court Civil Rule 26, which states protective orders may be made to “protect a party or person from annoyance, embarrassment, oppression, or undue burden or expense.”

“Subjecting them to this kind of intrusion into their recovery group is clearly annoyance, embarrassment and oppression, basically,” she said.

NV News link:
http://yelmonline.com/articles/2013/03/ ... 514930.txt
“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.”
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Re: Yelm NV News: Ex-RSE group battles subpoena

Unread post by David McCarthy » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:39 am

Yet another wakeup call for RSE students and JZK's backers to step back and take a look what is really going on here.
JZK's latest efforts to obtain private information of former RSE students using subpoenas to Facebook and our EMF servers is a direct attack on everyone's freedom of speech and internet privacy.
For over twenty two years JZK- Ramtha preached and profited using civil protections enshrined in the US constitution.
How easily JZK now tramples those same First Amendment Rights of others for the sake of corporate protection and profits.
Does the US First Amendment apply to corporations?
Does JZK really think that obscene abusive behavior with potentially illegal activities at RSE is protected under the US First Amendment?
Does she really think her corporate copyright claims and COP agreements will succeed in silencing the whistleblowers about her abuse? We will see.
This is not an isolated attack on free speech; JZK has been crushing free speech at JZK, Inc/ RSE since 1988.
The majority of RSE students signed up in all good conscience, they submitted their lives over to what JZK-R calls ‘The Great Work’.
They surrendered their doubts and free thinking into the trust and care of JZK,Inc/RSE, even to the subjection of extreme mental and physical abuse and financial hardships.
We all witnessed, and were often subjected to denigrating and humiliating treatment from JZK-R.
We were programmed to believe that through those so called RSE ‘initiations’ a greater good would prevail not only for ourselves but for all mankind.
I would ask RSE students.....
Where is this brave New World? Where are the RSE Masters? What results have your torturous and cruel efforts and practices at RSE gotten anyone?
Where is enlightenment demonstrated at RSE?
How can anyone in all good conscience justify JZK-Rs drunken abusive rhetoric and behavior?
Stay long enough in the fog of RSE the unconscionable becomes justifiable, but if your critical thinking and conscience taps on your shoulder you may also notice the shadow of the RSE fear that keeps you numb, confused and silent.
When must a line be drawn in the sand when the Ends do not justify the Means?
But once you get beyond the confines of the RSE brainwashing, truth becomes not a threat but a beautiful voice and the path to freedom.
Perhaps this is the very enlightenment we were seeking at RSE?
This fight is as old as humanity itself, in every generation a fresh crop of sociopathic tyrants raise their ugly weapons in an attempt to cut down our freedoms and spirit. JZ Knight is a prime example of this.
But at the end of the day I have no doubt that truth and freedom will prevail.

David
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

Sunshine
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Re: Yelm NV News: Ex-RSE group battles subpoena

Unread post by Sunshine » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:14 am

Go David..Go David.. You're a Rock Star, get you're game on!! I'm beginning to feel there may be an end to JZR as we all have known and that my friends, well, that's LIBERATION at its finest! :D

May we all rest better at night knowing this is a very real possibility!

seriously
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Re: Yelm NV News: Ex-RSE group battles subpoena

Unread post by seriously » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:43 pm

This is yet another red flag pointing out the obvious. Ramtha isn't real and the "school" is in the business of maintaining a revenue stream.

Ockham
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Re: Yelm NV News: Ex-RSE group battles subpoena

Unread post by Ockham » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:26 am

I am dismayed that the court would allow itself to be used as a pawn in JZK's game. I can understand that the judge probably isn't a computer scientist, but I believe it is within the grasp of a non technical person to see the JZK subpoenas are a fishing expedition with intent to harass people who have nothing to do with the case.

There is no justification that JZK needs exhaustive lists of names and Internet addresses from Internet service providers.

Great article. Thanks David and Pastor Jeff.

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Re: Yelm NV News: Ex-RSE group battles subpoena

Unread post by naturegirl » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:47 pm

Judith you called me Lady when I attended rse. I am going to say to you, Lady, Lady, Lady are you this low that you are looking for IP addresses, so you can subpoena people? Really is this the BEST YOU CAN DO! You should be ashame of yourself- this is really LOW!!!

Lady, I left RSE quietly many, many years ago’s- but I never came completely full circle with the whole Ramtha thing you created LADY! So, please keep looking for my IP address, I am waiting and I don’t wait alone!

Lady – what did I just say?

I don’t wait alone! Remember this! I am ready to come full circle with you LADY!!!

If you would like to speed up your IP search- just ask who is nature girl and I will be more then happy to give you my information, more then happy Judith...

Who do you think you ARE? SERIOUSLY? WHAT A BULLY AND A BITCH!!!!!!

RoyGBiv
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Re: Yelm NV News: Ex-RSE group battles subpoena

Unread post by RoyGBiv » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:08 pm

well said.

I think if she keeps going after the identities of people in a support group! for God's sake! it will backfire heavily on her. Looking at RSE's declining attendance and revenues, it's already begun to.

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Re: Yelm NV News: Ex-RSE group battles subpoena

Unread post by Breckan » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:16 pm

Quick update (also posted under another topic) from the result of the hearing today (this is what I posted to enlightened europa earlier):

Good news!! The judge granted the motion to quash as to all the info except ip addresses and mac addresses...no personal info, identities, email, phone, etc are subject to disclosure anymore. If they are able to match an ip address to unauthorized access to the live event, then they will need to go back to the court for authorization to obtain additional info as to that ip address holder only. The judge also did not strike the declarations, and found that the declarations supported that there are privacy concerns at issue. This is a win, we successfully stopped Jzk from unnecessary intrusion. It was a fair, and very tailored/restrictive ruling regarding what they can do. Congrats everyone!

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Re: Yelm NV News: Ex-RSE group battles subpoena

Unread post by David McCarthy » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:27 pm

THANK YOU Breckan and to EE members...
From all of us on EMF, past, present and future..... :idea:

David
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

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Re: Yelm NV News: Ex-RSE group battles subpoena

Unread post by freemysoul » Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:20 am

Great job Breckan, thank you sooooo much for your support and expertise. It is because of your legal guidance and belief in the ideals our constitution stands for that JZ Knight cannot inject even more fear into the lives of those who have finally pulled free of her manipulative grasp. Congratulations also to EE, as you have set an example for others showing what a paper tiger JZ and rse truly are.

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Re: Yelm NV News: Ex-RSE group battles subpoena

Unread post by naturegirl » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:46 pm

Judith did you get that IP address yet? Waiting!!! I got my spies too, facebook informed me that someone logged into my account, so did you get the information that you are looking for?

Judith, whatever, I have to say, I say it on EMF, so you can see it, because I have no FEAR of you or that thing you call Ramtha!

I am a observer and I am a excellent observer!

Judith, the people in EE & EMF has their own deal with you and that is there business. They are here to heal and you should be beyond this nonsense and leave them ALONE!! JUST GO AWAY!!! YOU HAVE DONE ENOUGH DAMAGE AND HURT TO REAL CARING GOOD HUMAN BEINGS AND KARMA WILL DEAL WITH YOU! IT IS THE LAW OF THE UNIVERSE!!!

But you and I- it is personally, like everyone one else that attended this school!

So BRING IT ON!!! YOU ARE LOOKING TO KNOW WHO I AM - BRING IT OWN!! WAITING!!

VC little deal with you and your past lover WILL look very, very, very, small when I am finish!! Do you really want the public to know more about you? I am not talking about videos or tapes - I gave that shit away in 2000! I FLEW IN FROM CA AND SPENT THOUSANDS ON YOUR TAPES AND BOOKS AND GAVE THEM AWAY!

Remember it is personal! This is between YOU AND I, Judith!! I have questions and I want answers!!!

I LEFT QUITE - BUT IF YOU WANT TO GET IT GOING - LET'S GO!!

Judith, I do want to say to this forum and to all forums that are trying to heal from you and that Ramtha. I am deeply sorry for your pain and I have had my own pain, I have my own story that hasn't been told.

If, I knew back in 1987 - that when a friend gave me the book Love yourself into life - that it would have come to this point! So much suffering and pain Judith have created, it is beyonds words!!

So, let's move beyond the IP addresses - boring ;-) I think - you should ask the mirror who I am ;-)

I am ready for a full circle experience! It is personal Judith!!

Remember whatever, I say, I say on EMF - until we meet again, hopefully soon!!

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Re: Yelm NV News: Ex-RSE group battles subpoena

Unread post by Ockham » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:55 pm

That is pretty serious stff Naturegirl. If RSE is using private investigators to hack accounts or pretexting to commit identity theft, those are federal crimes. Just such an incident caused the chief executive officer of Hewlett Packard to lose her job. Be sure to print paper copies of any correspondence from Facebook or your service provider, then sign and date the paper record. When you print, if your mail program is able, print the mail headers along with the message. This will help strengthen the record for later use as evidence.

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Re: Yelm NV News: Ex-RSE group battles subpoena

Unread post by Sunshine » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:54 pm

naturegirl........ You're my hero! Awesome post..

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Re: Yelm NV News: Ex-RSE group battles subpoena

Unread post by journeythroughramthaland » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:54 pm

I guess the saying you don't mess with mother nature...(or her children).... is true! I've got your back NG. :D
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner

naturegirl
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Re: Yelm NV News: Ex-RSE group battles subpoena

Unread post by naturegirl » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:08 am

Judith - I hope you enjoyed your last note that I left for you and your peeks.

Lovely Day - I hope you enjoyed it !

I am extremely disappointed in the time it has taken for you to remote my IP address and it is really boring -
you know that –
remember the days in the fields, the hugs –
you know - I mastered the cards, the tank –
all of it and I got bored and I left –
nothing new –
no original thought .
So my gift to you since your focal point is off and I want to come full circle with you –
My IP Address 174.61.156.171
Judith - you tell your boys in suits - my boys are waiting in fine suits!!
;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) You won the lottery!!! My IP Address 174.61.156.171

David, please do not delete this post and thank you for this forum.

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Re: Yelm NV News: Ex-RSE group battles subpoena

Unread post by David McCarthy » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:32 am

David, please do not delete this post and thank you for this forum.
Thank you naturegirl
Judith - you tell your boys in suits - my boys are waiting in fine suits!!
And our boys and girls are also wearing mighty fine suits and packing premium executive fine leather Briefcases..... :idea:
Now Judith.. turn to your neighbor repeat what you have just learned!
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

Cheryl
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Re: Yelm NV News: Ex-RSE group battles subpoena

Unread post by Cheryl » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:05 pm

Ha, Naturegirl. Yes, it did get boring. But that makes sense now that we know Judith can't do deeper teachings because she doesn't know anything deeper, only what is sideways.

naturegirl
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Re: Yelm NV News: Ex-RSE group battles subpoena

Unread post by naturegirl » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:19 pm

What Judith is doing is completely dreadful and I don't take kindly to her behavior!! She has no right to impose in my personal life and what I do online or anything else. I paid for her services - and like everything else in life, if the services is bad, you move on!!

In this case with you Judith it was horrendous! You hurt people deeply!! It was unwarrantable to use a Hindu God to molest human emotions for your own personal gain!

I left that Neighborhood quietly – there were people that I cared about – that I spent time with – this was not a game for me and when I made the choice to move to WA – it wasn’t a small choice in my life!

So, I have many questions for you Judith and I since you are looking for me - I want some answers, this bully almighty attitude – trashing people trying to heal in a group and looking for IP address is unacceptable.

Judith, your actions and your misuse of power towards human beings is unjustifiable and offensive, and no one is going to bully me – so you have what you need –

Judith, it is your move!
Don’t you just love chess?

Judith, you calculated every move and you have a understanding of how human emotions works and how to persuade people, you pry on weakness, all in the name of a God you pilfer from India and create that school, shameful, shameful, shameful!

Your games are deep and the hurt - you hurt people to the core of their beings – you are very contemptible!

Judith, it is your move! Enjoy Day! ;-)

Shocked
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Re: Yelm NV News: Ex-RSE group battles subpoena

Unread post by Shocked » Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:00 am

You took the words right out of my mouth!!! Thank you!!

journeythroughramthaland
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Re: Yelm NV News: Ex-RSE group battles subpoena

Unread post by journeythroughramthaland » Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:26 am

What Judith is doing is completely dreadful and I don't take kindly to her behavior!! She has no right to impose in my personal life and what I do online or anything else.
I paid for her services emphasis mine) - and like everything else in life, if the services is bad, you move on!!


Something poped into my mind when I read that. I seem to remember something about a first use doctrine for copywritten material. I am pretty certain that is what allows you to sell your used books, records, whatever. If it was not allowed then all yard sales would end up in subpoenas. One would think if you can resell it you could certainly simply show it?

Perhaps she thinks her COP stands in between that but when that COP falls the rest will fall with it.
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner

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