Pink Bands

[tree]

So I go into town today, and lucky me, the ranch has been let out on a break. People with pink bands abound.
I go into the bank. Two women are in front of me. One turns around to me, speaking to me as if she thinks I am still in school and
declares, "I am at the event!"
I think to myself, wow, that's $1300 you could have saved.
She continues: "Oh! It is SOO awesome! He has been out 5 times in the last 3 days!! and we are learning a new dicsipline!!"
(Mind you, I have asked this woman nothing.)
"Well, the new discipline is that when you are walking, and you find a thought that starts to stray from your original intentional thought,
you are to raise your hand to REMIND your Neuronet that it is off course."
I almost burst out into laughter.


So, I am driving home thinking, ok...years ago...when we were in the field, and our thought strayed, we were told to just stop walking.
Breathe, then continue on.

THAT then evolved into walking BACKWARDS when you found your thought "to stray."

Well, Apparently the first several variations on a theme did not work, what makes them think raising their hand will work?? LOL

So I shared this with another ex-member-in town, no less.
I tell you, we had a BALL raising our hands every so often only to burst into utter belly laughs!!! It was hysterical.

________________________

on a side note, our conversation transitioned into the concept of a high degree of self criticizing of one's thoughts.
We both agreed that once we finally left RSE, and the time period in adjusting, and especially the realization of how much time in our daily
lives and thinking we spent on looking so critically at our thoughts. And I recalled Whata's post about the duress while in RSE.
This duress, to me, was self imposed critical thinking of our own thoughts. it was just amazing to have this realization.
And to know now, how much free time I truly have!

[journeythroughramthaland]

Hi Tree,

What I think when you are describing what would be viewed internally for the students is, how well that would work EXTERNALLY to view the whole scene and see how good ones suggestions have been taken by the students. That is what it would really be useful for!

[Whatchamacallit]

Tree posted, ""Well, the new discipline is that when you are walking, and you find a thought that starts to stray from your original intentional thought,
you are to raise your hand to REMIND your Neuronet that it is off course."
I almost burst out into laughter."

I am in laughter ! OMG !!!!

I'm so proud of myself that I am NOT there and I'm going to the store to buy bread and bananas cuz we're out of them ! Life is GOOD, and I won't be raising my hand to remind myself about how to not get lost so I get to the store !

So, when are they going to stop walking and jump up and down to celebrate that they've gotten their manifestations right ON the field ? Ha ! How many times did we hear that one ?
JZ is losing creativity with the invention of these "new" disciplines. It's embarrassing. Really.

Seriously, though, I do agree that it's an action to keep the "thought stopping" process in effect. They are sort of self-brainwashing.

[tree]

Dear RSE-
The incident I described at the bank actually did not occur to me but to a very dear friend of mine
who is still to scared to post. So, before you start putting up slides of "don't talk to these ex- members"
(hahah!), you won't have to worry about little ol moi hearing from the RSE neck of the Yelm woods

[Whatchamacallit]

Tree said, "who is still to scared to post."

That's sad. She can post and be anonymous. She can register with a fake name and email address, so nobody is going to know who she is. At least, not by the posting name. If she says stuff that identifies, her, then of course that's another story.

[ex]

what makes them think raising their hand will work?? the bloodvolume of the raised arm will flow into the lower brain by gravity and will benefit the focus.the bloodcirculationdeficit in your arm will not matter because you need only thoughts to get bananas and bread.no need for an arm doing things.bad if this wisdom cost you an arm and a leg.any more questions?

[G2G]

If the first grade/ 6 yr. old "handraising" doesn't work, and any takers on what she'll try next? Okay. Belch. Everytime you lost focus due to those "intrusive" thoughts, belch. It doesn't take much to fake a belch, and some do without any provocation of this nature. I can imagine half the field belching. The talking or "proclaiming" so loud during the neighborhood walks would have me zigzagging the field to find my own little niche where it was more quiet. I resorted to earplugs or an mp3 player (which was much more inspiring to me to hear music which actually elevated my thoughts more than "I have always been two pounds lighter" via some poor little thing ahead of me in the mud.

Wish you all well!

[Whatchamacallit]

g2g...it might as well be belching.......there's sure enough farting that goes on.

ex asked, "what makes them think raising their hand will work?"
because ramtha said so. don't ask questions, ex ! haha
that's all they need to know.
so, JUST DO IT.

[tree]

ex-
too funny!!! LOL

[tree]

so, today, I am on the job, and the former "project mgr" shows up, even though the client has fired him becasue of his
lame ethics, and 'business partner' who is getting paid $45 /hr to run a backhoe, when the dude has never been ON one.

Anyway,
they come to the site, seeking the job, but FULL of ASSAY info, that MUST BE PASSED on.


So, September, all our trees will be dead-GONE.
so, put all your food underground and NOT in your UG.
and make sure, there is not metal in or around your food, The gov't will be able to locate it.
They have the low down of where your stored food is.
remember it by a rock, as the trees will be gone.

Take ALL your money out of investments NOW.
(so the client did)

out of the 700 who attended the Assay,
only 3, "made it to the mid-brain" and " would be saved."

oh, and btw, there are our space brothers "up there" who are watching our every move.
They will ONLY take the most impeccable ones . ( so, uh, what, that is why you two ditched the project because you
were unimpeccable?")

you only have until September to get your hole (UG) done.

[tree]

I fogot the most important:

DO ALL OF YOUR DISCIPLINES DAILY.

(Kenny is now moving poker chips with his mind. You should as well.)

[Whatchamacallit]

Huh ? All of the trees in Yelm will be gone ? I thought Yelm was protected by the Ram dude and his alien friends ????? (not joking)
How many times did JZR say that a 25 mile radius from the center (Yelm) would be kept safe ? Many.

They're so special that the government wants THEIR food ? If they want their food and find them, they'll also be knocking on their doors looking to be room mates in the UG's, too.

Sad.

[aussiegirl]

I am very grateful that this doomsday stuff is something my partner doesn't buy into (he did mention once that it might be sensible to put some food away, but I just told him it was ridiculous, if the situation every came about that there was a food shortage, the people with the food would be the ones with the biggest guns) Does anyone think that if things were really desparate you could just sit and eat your stored food whilst those around you were dying - no there would be chaos, people would be killing for food. It's scare mongering at its worst, and typical cult behavoir. I actually find the doomsday messages put out by RSE the biggest red flags of all, and can't believe anyone would take them seriously.

My partner's observation of them is that they are possibilities not definites, thats how he reads these particular teachings and how he can justify such obvious nonsense in his own mind

.

[Whatchamacallit]

aussie said, "My partner's observation of them is that they are possibilities not definites"

Ahh, there is some basis for him saying that !

JZR says that "This is how it is seen at this moment." To keep the students in the mode of believing that they can change the future, they're told the doom and gloom is coming "as it is seen now". So, as with anything that is predicted from JZR, "the best predictions are the ones that never come to pass". Why ? Because students believe they changed the timeline of the prediction, so it won't happen.

Slick, eh ?

Just wonderin' why they didn't change that tsunami timeline....

Aussie, I understand how hard it is to believe anyone could fall for what appears such total nonsense. However, there is one redeeming factor here. Not all of the students do fall for it. I used to sit there and argue how ridiculous it was to have a UG. I've posted about that, before. I also know that students would quietly say to one another, "Did you do your UG/food storage?" Generally speaking, there seemed to me, to be two camps; one that fell for it all because they trusted the teacher (shame on the teacher), and the others who believed it was a "test" by JZR, based in fear buttons being pressed, and they just rolled their eyes and did nothing to prepare for the Days To Come (DTC). I bought some food storage, but it felt "wrong" to me. That was years ago and I felt that mom thing - had to have extra food for my kids. Later on, it all ended up being donated to area food shelters - around January 1st, 2001. Y2K was a huge fear button that got pressed, too, that also never happened. My husband has national connections related to that entire topic, and he kept telling me, "There is no problem." My trust in him kept me from going into Major Food Storage mode. Thank goodness. We only wasted about $1,500 on food that was donated and helped others. That's at least a good ending to it.

I digress. Back to partner; likely, those are his thoughts (changing timelines).

[Marie]

When you are "on the outside" it's hard to tell what a current student "really" believes... My mother tells me that my sister is into the whole TDTC thing than she is... That "she, my mother, doesn't really believe it".... I think I get this from her because she knows on some level how stupid it all sounds and that I will point out the illogic of it all to her and she has been taught "not to engage" with nonbelievers and this is how she avoids doing that.... She has outright told me she doesn't buy into TDTC and then I see email correspondence between her and my sister, with exchanges like "we should be canning food".. and "it's all going to happen really fast but we'll be safe because we'll be in yelm"... [yes!].... My sister has proclimated that she has "taken care of" all of her and her husband's outdoor clothing needs so "now her task is to focus on getting gear for my mother"....

It is a very schizophrenic behavior... On the one hand they say they don't believe it... On the other hand, they are shopping at Costco for bulk items and stocking up on outdoor gear... On the other hand, they have both been saying for YEARS they are moving to Yelm... My sister has bought a house there.... But either of them have yet to move there, probably because it rationally makes no sense to do so because there is no employment there.... But the pace is a bit more frantic lately I have noticed... Probably because of the recent teachings.... But they don't speak of it to me because I'm a non believer... I asked my mother directly if this was part of the last BC teachings and she said no.... Then I see an email from her to my sister talking about getting to Yelm in hurry to be safe...

I am still trying to learn to take what is said between them with a grain of salt, because most of it so far, has just been talk, their reactions to JZ's hypnotic suggestions.

[Whatchamacallit]

Marie,

We were told to take care of OURSELVES, as the villagers (non students) will be desperate during TDTC times. So, if we're able to, we can have provisions (including housing), for our family, too. But basically, it's a cut throat attitude because of those villagers who would not listen anyway, deserving their outcome.

I just can't help but wonder what it would have been like if, in RSE, students had focused for 30 years since it's inception, on transmuting the doom and gloom reality, to a wonderful one, where the DTC never happened/happen ? It seems to me that is what Gods in the making, WOULD do. Hypocrisy. We have impotent God-students, who are putting away provisions like pack rats, instead. ..............sigh..........

[Marie]

Thanks for the response, Whatcha... I'm in a very meloncholy, sad mood today... I finally made an appointment to see a therapist about some of "all this" with my family.... I had been putting it off for the past year since I found out the magnitude of the belief system / cult behavior of rse, because frankly, I couldn't afford another expense... But this past year has been VERY stressful, the behavior crazy and my own family's reaction to my wanting to discuss it, downright hurtful and shocking to me... I have been called everything from "full of salacious gossip and hate"... to "abusive" to it being insinuated that the reason I am protesting my mother's move to yelm is because I am "using her" for financial reasons... I cannot express how sad and hurt this all makes me... So in anticipation of seeing the therapist tonight I have been rehashing a lot of the past year in my head, so I can relate it... Which just is very depressing and makes me want to cry....

Thanks for listening... I can't hug my family in understanding right now, so I am hugging all of you.....

[Lost in Space]

Watcha...yes, as we learned in Health class, FEAR SELLS...and , instead of learning to do positive things for ourselves, or being informed about how things could improve, instead, we learn new ways that the world sucks, we are inadequate, and we'd better buy X.....or we will suffer. We learn new things to worry about and dislike ourselves for, new ways in which we fail, or don't quite measure up, new ways by which to view the world and other people as big, bad, scary and hostile.

And Marie, my heart goes out to you - but the comments of those around you, about your using your family for financial reasons or whatever, says more about the person or people making the comment than it does about you or anything you did...good luck with the counselling/therapy.

[Whatchamacallit]

Marie,

When I was out of RSE for a couple of years, having more kids, I saw a therapist for a little while. I had a VERY difficult time at the latter part of the pregnancy, and it was VERY stressful. The doctor even warned me that while I don't have a mental health history, I was at risk for postpartum depression, due to the severity of illness and stress I was under for four straight months. I blew it off. But, he was right. So, while I got myself right back on track with a very non-judgmental counselor who knew her stuff, something unexpected happened.

Somehow, some of my RSE "stuff" came up, since it overlapped with the preggo stuff (timing and all). Long story short, I just remember sharing some things with the counselor about RSE, that she had insightful observations about. I think, to a degree, it's good that a counselor is open minded, and experienced, though not being a "cult expert" is secondary in importance. The emotions is where it's at. We all go through certain emotions (limited range), though the causative factors can span a large breadth. The coping skills for the emotions WE feel, though, are pretty much the same. You'll learn some great coping skills, as well as a "third party" perspective, too. It's very healing.

It will be an expense well invested in, I am confident. GOOD LUCK !!!!

As was posted, too, don't take it personally when the family makes you "wrong". It's not YOU they are making wrong. It would be anyone in your position. It's THEM, reacting to what you are and are not, that THEY cannot handle. The sad part, is you get the fallout of where they are, because you're not there with them. There is a distinction there, that I think, is important. Don't beat yourself up for something that is beyond your control.

[Robair]

Hello guys
Did not do much lately due to migraines that have been pledging my life the last week or so.

Hey Tree do I get it corectly they can not have there food in there UG.WOW what a bummer,what are they planning to do with that twist.
Build your self a Ug with haft rebars and half concrete, get in there for maybe 2 years,and Oh by they way don't bring your food in with you the bad boys are going to come a get it That's insane.
what is more scary for me is that few years ago I might have gone for it also

Also, take all there money out of the bank ,if they put all of it in cash, all the crooks around Washington will eventualy know about it and all of them will end up around Yelm and instead of them stilling generators and tools they will go for the Cash. It look like the only place on Earth that will be in a cahos will be in Yelm. This is insane

Oldone

[Lost in Space]

Oldone, you really crack me up, you have such a way of putting things.

And as I said on the old forum, the whole concept of the UG sounds more like building a tomb - like pyramids in ancient Egypt - than it sounds like any kind of survival strategy. Especially if there's no food!!!!

[tree]

It's THEM, reacting to what you are and are not, that THEY cannot handle. The sad part, is you get the fallout of where they are, because you're not there with them.

I cannot stress this enough.

Today, the gentleman (and I am being kind here) with the initials EJ came back to the work site after the event for the second day in a row.
Yesterday, he told the client, she can do what she likes, there are "more pressiing things to worry about than a job."
TODAY he comes around, asking AGAIN, for more money for his efforts, including 3 hours of time @$35/hour to pick up his hoses he politely declinded to pick up yesterday after the event.
So, in ADDITION to some trumped up charges, hes was going to charge this client with "his time" to the tune of $105 dollars because
"the client changed her mind and I am entititled to my hours."

She came back into the house, and I was ordering some supplies.
The client was FURIOUS, called him an SOB under her breath and said: "he wants $105 more dollars!!!"
She was aghast.
We had already proved that he padded the bills quite nicely.

She wanted to pay him just to get him to go away.
I said: "no fricking way!! you don't owe him another dime!!"

SHe went out to tell him that.
He then turned the arguement to: "you were being a victim, and NOW you are being a tyrant" (RSE vernacular)
and then he said:" You are doing what all women do. You are changing your mind"



She got REALLY irate over that.

I marched out there, as he said, " I k now you are in there."
Tree: "You are SOOO full of crap that if YOU think you can charge this woman $90 /hour to run a backhoe for you, and your schoolteacher buddy who has NEVER run a backhoe in his life, you are NOT righteous!!" I co ntinued:" as union wages go, unions start at $32 /hour for
heavy equipment operators."

This is an example of the madness in dealing with an RSE student who
1) is not "sovereign"
2) does not have a steady job
3) does not have an UG
4) who just came from an Assay scared out of his wits.

I even KNEW what I was dealing with here, and he STILL got me off kilter with his non=logic

So Marie, I hope this gives you some insight.

I think the therapist idea is a v ery good one for yourself.
Just keep them updated with what cults do in general.
You will know in the first meeting if they are the right fit or not.
big hugs (((00000)))
Tree

[Marie]

I can't thank you all enough for your words and support... It really means a lot in this stressful time.

[tree]

and by the way,
here in Yelm, they are buying tons of freeze dried foods...but they are all wondering what to do about the food being required to NOT be in metal cans as "our gov't can detect them." But the added rumor is that "the gov't has bought up all the freeze dried food, so what are we to do?"
They are swarming Costco, the Lumber store, Hertz rental...you name it.
I guess RSE can say the students are adding to the local ecnonomy! not to mention adding to JZK, Inc profits.
can I spend George Dubbya's stimulus package at the Survival Center??

[littlewiseone]

Marie - sorry this has been such a hard time for you, just goes to show how much families can be affected by a loved one's involvement in a cult. I agree that there is much to be gained from seeing a therapist and wish you the best with that. I hope you take the time to fill us in on your experience there (as you feel ready) maybe in the 'friends & family' section so other affected people can benefit as well.

I'm just curious though... are you somehow reading your mother's private emails...? Not trying to pry into your business here so I hope you don't take offense, but it seems to me that not knowing the exact context of the emails could easily lead to misunderstanding/misinterpretation of what is going on in the exchange between your mother & sister. On the other hand, I agree there is not much logic (at least in the conventional sense) in what goes thru a ramsters head, especially when it comes to TDTC.

[Marie]

LWO -- absolutely I am reading her mails.....Trust between us was compromised when I discovered more about rse through this board, and attemped discussion with my mother and her family, and was promptly shut down.. At that time -- and still -- I cannot trust what she tells me, as she says one thing to my face and another to those sympathetic to rse ... She constantly flip flops back and forth on when and if she is moving to yelm -- more when than if, she seems to be certain that she will move... I felt I needed to do what I needed to to protect my own financial stability, as it is my house, my mortgage and my financial stability and options that would be affected by her move.... Bottomline, I was / am just fearful that she will tell me she is leaving tomorrow and leave me holding the financial bag... I'm not exactly trying to snoop just to snoop and actually it probably hurts me more than helps at this point since I see the things that she says about me that are hurtful.... I am basically trying to prevent the rug from being jerked out from under me, if possible.

[littlewiseone]

Hm, I can understand why you're doing it but I think reading her mails might compound the problem of trust (or lack thereof...). I'm not a psychologist but I would venture to say that if she discovered that you are reading her emails there would be some serious issues of betrayal and this time justifiable mistrust on her part.

I don't doubt that your mother says one thing to your face and another to those within rse, unfortunately this is the reality for many involved in such groups and I can sympathize with the sense of mistrust you've developed thru that. I would nevertheless encourage you for your part to endeavor to be as honest and forthright as possible with her so as not to destroy what tenuous amount of trust may still be there.

During my time in RSE my mom read some of my intimate writings (somewhat of a diary) and discovered things that I did not want her to know. It took me a long time to forgive this betrayal. Of course, this only pushed me further into the arms of RSE and my 'friends' (hardly what my mom wanted to achieve). In the end, I see that instance as somewhat of an opportunity that could have worked in her favor if she had just admitted early on that she had read my diary, then she could have addressed the information she discovered differently. I guess she was in a bit of a pickle though, since she probably realized how I would react to the fact that she had betrayed my trust in the first place.

I think whenever one makes the choice to invade another's privacy we have to consider what the benefit will be, not to us personally, but to the relationship if we do happen to discover the dreaded information. If you did find whatever you are looking for in her emails, would you be able not to act? And in your action would you eventually have to admit that you had been reading her email...? And then, what impact will that have on the relationship? And even if you don't admit that you've been reading her intimate communications, is it not affecting your relationship anyway? Good or bad? And if you don't find what you're looking for, might there be irreparable harm done...? Will it be worth it...?

I'm not trying to tell you what to do, just trying to illustrate that you may not be helping your cause. I do understand the helplessness you must feel and I'm sorry your family does not support your concern for your mother & sister. The alienation from all angles must be hard. Also realize that the things your mother says about you that are hurtful are things you should never hear. Being a mother myself I can add that even us non-cult-involved mothers sometimes have awful thoughts about our children that may come out in conversations with girlfriends or therapists but are never meant for the child's ears because essentially they have nothing to do with the child. Hopefully that can give you some comfort to understand that most likely your mother does not mean what she says, especially under the influence of such destructive (particularly to families) and hurtful teachings as found at RSE.

[G2G]

{{{{{Marie}}}}}

I hope all went well with you with the therapist. I was in grief counseling after two members of my family passed on last summer. I was feeling guilt over not spending my time with them, and instead was at RSE when my family needed me. So i mentioned RSE to the therapist (an MD/PhD), how I was drawn into it by first seeing What the Bleep, then reading more, and putting together what I had studied and read over the years about world religions, etc. I actually purchased a copy of WTB for him to watch - to see how people were being "hypnotized" by this pseudo science, and the wonders of physics beyond what we know. I felt I was open-minded enough to try it, since the ads and DVD RSE sends out makes it LOOK as though it's fun. I was there not to become a "God woman/man realized," since that was the first I'd heard, but to learn to "heal" since I grew up Christian and knew the Good Book said we can "heal." This was a very gentle male therapist/MD/Phd, and had, up until that point, stated in our sessions that I was a reasonable/logical person (not nuts, if you excuse my language). When I began talking about RSE (I'd already left) and how it messed up my sense of spirituality to the point where I felt devoid of anything along that line when I needed it most, he was appalled about the movie, the "cult," and bluntly told me after all of our sessions that I "needed to set limits." All the while I thought I was being open-minded to things not yet scientifically accepted in the real world outside of RSE, yet when I repeated the story to my therapist, it all sounded so silly and even embarrassing. How did I buy into this, I was asking myself. So sometimes simply repeating the story to the therapist has one realizing how crazy it all was/is. I remember I used to collect "angels." I grew up with "knowing things," having precognitive dreams. I simply saw RSE as a manner of developing this more to the level of perhaps helping to heal the sick. So the combination of the pseudo-babble along with how I was raised (bible), along with my exposure to eastern thought, really left me confused at a critical point in my life - due to the twistings of RSE, I no longer knew what I "knew" prior to attending yet all I wanted was to regain that which I had lost while there. But how could I at that time of need? It was indeed a spiritual rape by RSE. I slowly found my own way back and beyond, but still feel a "shudder" when I see or hear "power talks" on the tube or even happen across anything about "creating" your life, even though it's not intended to be the same manner of "creating." Right now, I'm happy to have my spiritual connection stronger than ever, and that's the most important thing.

These people leaving or on the fence about leaving RSE have to walk the path of finding, "what do I believe in now?" as well as trying to sort through what was borrowed and twisted by RSE. Reconnecting with nature and animals has been the most helpful to me, and still is. Also, I find my "gut" feelings flow much more naturally than when I was in RSE TRYING to "manifest" (which resulted in manifesting more cash for jzk et al.)

Just my random thoughts about how leaving RSE and then facing tragedy was a lonely walk, but along the way I looked at the trees, the waterways, the plants - and began to feel better by this connection.

Marie, I don't know if any of this can help you understand, but I it can. Between your mother and your sister, maybe your mom might be "on the fence" at times, but what does one do when they lose their faith (be it in RSE or whatever) in their later years? She might be terribly afraid; and yet, your sister is entrenched in it and that's a safety net for your mom's RSE beliefs. She just might be scared. Just love her, and take care of you. Be well.

[Marie]

LWO -- Yes, I have previously considered almost every point you raised -- what would she do if she found out and how would that now affect our relationship??... I guess it's safe to say that our relationship, as well as my relationship with other family members because of her and my sister's influence, has taken a huge beating this past year.... Personal attacks on my character that I have no doubt were rse influenced, and others that who knows what reasons were..... Also, I think that I have taken the misplaced brunt of her anger at her "controller" JZ... It's not easy living with someone under cult influence, especially when that person is a parent and you have additional parent /child issues involved, along with any other already just plain personality or emotional issues.......I'm not perfect... I usually try to take the high road, do unto others, yada yada... But at some point, I need to worry about taking care of myself, what's best for me, not for my mother, especially when she has made it clear that her loyality, allegiance and trust is with "their beloved teacher"... Yes, I care about her.. yes I care about our relationship... But to be at the point you suggest -- care more for my mother and our relationship more than I do about myself, I'd have to be able to forgive the damage that has already been done, and I'm just not at that point yet.

The havoc that cult involvement plays with families and their relationships is no small thing.

[littlewiseone]

But to be at the point you suggest -- care more for my mother and our relationship more than I do about myself, I'd have to be able to forgive the damage that has already been done, and I'm just not at that point yet.

I'm sorry if it sounded that way, I did not mean that. I realize you probably already considered what I'm saying since no one makes such a decision lightly, just trying to explain from having been there. It's a fine line and maybe I forgot for a minute that you are here not only for how to deal with your mom & sister's involvement in RSE but also just for support. What I said was actually meant supportively, sorry if it didn't come across that way. I think your actions so far have been completely normal and borne out of understandable desperation. I guess I just felt concerned about what the impact of reading your moms mails might be down the line. I meant no offense and can fully understand your frustration. You certainly need to take care of yourself first right now and the rest will fall into place. I hope that sometime peace can be restored in your family.

[Marie]

LWO -- and everyone else who responded.... you are all sweeties, thanks so much for letting me vent and giving me support!

[littlewiseone]

:)

[tree]

LWO-
in your response to Marie regarding the points of reading her mother's e-mails:
I can understand your view up to a point.
But, in your case, you felt your parents betrayed you on a number of occasions in their most heartfelt efforts
to get a minor out of the clutches of a cult. I have to admit, I would have gone the same road as your father. Especially with a minor.
But your father at the time, had been in the midst of a realization that HIS mind had been twisted by Bohdananda and the excercises.
He was barely out of this realization, much less "recovery" when he had to deal with a teenager being swept away bye a cult and not to mention his best friend.
Talk about a betrayal! wow. His best friend sweeps his daughter away to a cult and to his bed. Wow.

I feel THAT strongly about how much damage a cult does to people.
And right now, Marie has to look out for her self. Just like your father, she has somewhat of a dependant on her hands.
Only, of course, it would be with a mother, who, most mothers think they know more than their children at any age.
Then throw in a little RSE curse, and you have a mother who absolutely knows EVERYTHING.
( I endeavor every day to NOT put this on my child. He has some very creative, out-there solutions at times, and I freely admit
most of his ideas are better than mine. I have never portended to be the "be-all-knowing-with-the-wrath-of-god" mother that
I know that the majority of baby boomers grew up with.)

No Ramster so entwined in RSE will EVER truly trust a lowly villager. NEVER. Their alliegiance is to the leader.
And I don't care how much Marie's mother verbally flips flops,
this is the case with almost EVERY RAMSTER out there.
They say one thing one day, and another thing another day because: "it is my reality, and I am god, and I can change it."
Marie's mother will never trust Marie until she fully realizes it is a cult and has about a year of some good recovery methods.
Until then, I think Marie should look out for her own self interests, because a Ramster can never be trusted.
I know. I rented to them for 3 years....and not ONE of them was impeccable to the written agreements.
Including an ex-student who had been out for 3 years, but still has behaviors very much RSE like.
Hence counseling is what I suggest to all ex members, whether they have been out 3 months or 15 years.

And I can't even imagine what it feels like to be a family member who has a relative that is gung ho in a cult.

I've only been a Ramster, and an ex-Ramster.
Very interesting as I know both modes of thinking.

[littlewiseone]

Tree - yes, I see your point. I also acknowledge that I might go to the the same lengths as my parents did if I were in the same or similar situation. It's all understandable and if it had worked (which was a possibility), we wouldn't even be discussing it's merits. I guess everyone is different and there are certain risks we have to take as parents and children. Regardless of when Marie's mother & sister 'wake up' there will be some rebuilding to do in the relationship and likely all that is happening now will one day be water under the bridge. Perspective is one of the things we so sorely lacked in RSE, which is something I can see clearly now. I think that's one of the things that makes relating to others (outside the group) so difficult.

Good luck Marie and hang in there!