Scientists vs Science: Interviews with Mike Yeadon and Robert Malone - Logically

EMF does not buy into the fear hysteria of COVID-19,
nor agree with the agenda of mandatory mRNA vaccinations.
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Scientists vs Science: Interviews with Mike Yeadon and Robert Malone - Logically

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Anybody here have thoughts on this article?
I'll spare you my opinion unless asked.. :shock:
Scientists vs Science: Interviews with Mike Yeadon and Robert Malone

Ernie Piper

Published: Jul 20, 2021 4

Scientists vs Science: Interviews with Mike Yeadon and Robert Malone
COVID-truthers have a science problem. They don’t need more politicians or activists arguing against lockdowns or debating the efficacy of masks. They need scientists – qualified people with proven track records and fancy degrees. Even if these scientists retread the same ground as other covid-skeptic or anti-mRNA-vax influencers, the letters after their names make their messages sound more official and more believable.

Over the past couple of weeks, I’ve been in correspondence with two individuals: Dr. Mike Yeadon and Dr. Robert Malone. Both Malone and Yeadon have real scientific credentials. Both have also appeared on Tucker Carlson, featured on a number of anti-vax channels, and become prominent voices in the anti-vax and COVID-denial movements. I interviewed Malone by phone and had a lengthy email correspondence with Yeadon.

Bob Malone
Dr. Robert Malone, who has both an MD and an MA in biology, works as a scientist-policymaker. He’s worked in the developing world, putting together Ebola and Zika vaccine initiatives, and has run his own scientific consulting business for about 20 years. According to his CV, he is currently working on repurposing a popular heartburn drug as a COVID-19 treatment; however, according to an Associated Press article from last year, the project fizzled after both disappointing results and a whistleblower complaint.

Malone gets his credibility among the anti-vax and anti-COVID-vax crowd by calling himself the inventor of mRNA vaccines, which is a bit like calling a guy who worked on the combustion engine the inventor of space flight. The work was absolutely a milestone on the way to jet propulsion, and our ideating engineer probably hoped to go to the stars. But Malone wasn’t the only person working on mRNA, he wasn’t the only person to have the idea of an mRNA vaccine and, as of now, he hasn’t been working in that field of research for 30 years.

Malone claims to have had the words “inventor of mRNA vaccines'' on his CV for years, and while an earlier copy of his CV was not obtainable, an archived version of his LinkedIn page from 2010 does not include this phrase. It instead claims that he is “known as one of the original inventors of DNA vaccination.” Archives of his webpage also reveal that he only added a “inventor of mRNA vaccine” tab sometime early in 2021.

“I didn't invent these vaccines,” he said in an interview with me. “I invented the vaccine platform and the concept. I did not invent these specific vaccines.”

Back in 1989, as a postdoc biology student, he worked in two labs under Dr. Inder Verma at the Salk Institute, and under Dr. Phil Felgner at the biotech company Vical. His name appears on a succession of patents alongside Felgner’s and a few other postdocs. When I pressed him on how he can claim to be the sole inventor of the mRNA vaccine if he shares his patents with a group of other people, he accused his fellows of theft.

“Phil has been trying to steal my credit for what I've done my whole career,” he told me.

Felgner, however, does not claim to have invented the mRNA vaccine. In a phone call with Logically’s reporters, Felgner made it clear that the development of mRNA technology was a decades-long process, of which his team played a part and that Malone was one of a talented group of researchers led by Felgner.

Later, however, Malone contradicted himself, and seemed to confirm Felgner’s account of a decades-long process. “They did not take advantage of my research. It’s the way science works. You build on each other,” Malone said, acknowledging the process. “The work of Pieter Cullis at UBC is what’s really enabled this generation of vaccines to be developed, and he’s been working on this for 40 years.”

It doesn’t make much sense why someone would claim to be the inventor of a vaccine he is also claiming is causing lots of damage. The contradiction becomes clearer when we discuss Dr. Katalin Karikó, who worked with Dr. Drew Weissman to develop the Pfizer vaccine.

Malone shared with me a series of emails between his wife, Karikó, and himself. In March of this year, Malone’s wife Dr. Jill Glasspool sent Karikó an article in the New England Journal of Medicine, accusing her of erasing Malone from history. (The article was written by Dr. Angela Desmond and Dr. Paul Offit.)

Karikó replied that she acknowledges Malone and especially Felgner for their research, and cites them in her papers, even thanking Malone alongside a few others in the acknowledgments section of one. She also said that the first to use mRNA vaccines were a group of French researchers working on influenza in the early 90s, which is when she herself had been working on them. The exchange escalates through to June, with Karikó eventually asking them both to stop sending “threatening letters.”

Malone claimed that Karikó “wasn't the one that developed that vaccine” but instead “was placed in that position.” If you look at all the manuscripts that relate to that vaccine,” he said, “she's not on any of them.” Karikó and Weissman share two patents for making mRNA non-immunogenic, which was the innovation that made mRNA vaccination possible.

Malone admitted to getting the Moderna vaccine himself, but said he did so because he was suffering from long Covid, and the data at the time suggested it improved outcomes. He also said that he and his wife needed to travel, which made the vaccination necessary. “The trolls hit me with that almost daily,” he said.

When I asked him whether he used Telegram, he said, “I've heard of it. I don't use it.”

I told him about how quotes and videos of him are being used to promote a more general anti-vax agenda on Telegram, the chat app where most of the medical misinformation using his image can be found, and asked him how he felt about that. He said “I can't control that. I'm not responsible for that. All I can do is try to speak truth to the best of my ability.”

A Telegram account registered to his phone number showed it had been active within the last day.

Mike Yeadon
Dr. Mike Yeadon gets his credibility from being an ex-Pfizer scientist. He holds a Ph.D. in pharmacology and worked in the pharmaceutical industry for 35 years. 16 of these years were at Pfizer, and six at his own startup Ziarco, which he sold for hundreds of millions of pounds. He is retired and splits his time between the cities of Nice in France, and Canterbury in the U.K. He has never worked on vaccines.

Since May of last year, Yeadon has been accusing the government of an escalating series of crimes and cover-ups. On his Twitter page, which no longer exists, he gained an impressive following over the course of 2020. He eventually created a petition with another German anti-vax doctor, Wulfgang Wodarg, demanding that the EU stop vaccine trials because according to him, they damage fertility.

According to an interview Yeadon gave on Del Bigtree’s podcast, in 2021, he set a demanding media schedule for himself. He wrote a press release in which he stated that he was a retired Pfizer doctor who wanted to talk about the dangers of the vaccine and the “eight big lies” of the pandemic. He hired a PR company (it is unclear which one) and claims that his press release has been sent out to thousands of outlets. The people who took him up on this press release were, of course, fringe anti-vaxxer outlets.

Each interview appearance is more or less the same. He has a rough script he works from, and he asks the hosts to let him finish when he’s in the middle of his flow. He says that COVID isn’t dangerous, lockdowns don’t work, PCR tests don’t work, the vaccines are more lethal than COVID, the government wants to steal your freedom to advance a transnational agenda. He always says that he has no reason to say any of this except to “expose the lies.”

When I initially emailed him for this article, he lashed out. “Do you have approximately 40 years training & practise in life science disciplines relevant to this global fraud? The answer is no. You appear not even to have foundational education in science. Why then are you involving yourself in matters scientific?” Yeadon asked me.

I do not have approximately 40 years training and practice in life science disciplines relevant to any global fraud. I’m just an internet-addled journalist. Yeadon, on the other hand, is a drug maker with loads of experience. However, he is ignoring the training and practice of thousands of other doctors, scientists, and public health experts around the world who disagree with him. It would be trivially easy to go find their scientific papers and contact them directly; he instead chooses to find people who will broadcast his message uncritically. For instance, on Del Bigtree's show, he baselessly claimed that future vaccine booster shots "could contain a gene sequence designed to kill you" while Bigtree silently nodded along.

Like Malone, Yeadon distanced himself from Telegram and has refused to confirm that an account on the platform under his name does belong to him. An account with his name and profile picture has shared the unscientific ideas that vaccination is dangerous because it causes magnetism, citing a “study” done by a business student in Luxembourg who walked up to random people on the street and tried to stick magnets to them.

Yeadon is also ignoring the expertise of the people he used to work with. Reuters reported that his ex-colleagues had sent him a letter, saying they were concerned about his recent turn, and that he wasn’t the man they used to know.

“I was very disappointed with the ex-colleagues letter,” Yeadon told me. “I thought I’d hired and worked with smarter people than they’d shown themselves to be. I thought I’d been working with people with stronger ethical codes. I was wrong on one or both points.”

He later claimed that in his experience research was “squeaky clean,” with the implication that his industry had become, in the four years that had passed since selling his pharmaceutical startup and retiring, intensely corrupt.

“We in research were as angry as the general public about criminal activity,” he said. “‘The industry’ isn’t what’s brought these vaccines forward, it’s a small group utilising the development & production engines in their vaccine subsidiaries. So I don’t need to repudiate anything.”

Yeadon claims to have no conflicts of interest and nothing to gain. He is fabulously wealthy from the sale of Ziarco. But he’s already using that money to influence politics. During an interview on Steve Bannon’s podcast War Room, Yeadon said that he planned to be spending a lot on supporting “U.S. politicians and influencers” over the next six months. He also has established (or at least endorsed) an initiative in the U.K., “Liberal Spring,” to remake the Lib Dems party into a sort of anti-vaccine-passport party. Finally, and perhaps more remarkably, he’s bought a parcel of land in Tanzania, which he plans to remake it into a sort of intentional community called “Liberty Places” for vax-less mask-less people.

“It’s the brainchild of a friend,” Yeadon told me when I asked about Liberty Places. “The modern world will end, indeed, it already has in many countries. There might come a time where being far from advanced urban civilisations is a safer option than anything else. We’re so dependent on just in time deliveries of everything. Imagine if that faltered, how would you survive? What if as we all expect, vaccine passports are introduced, and required to enter a supermarket. A remote & off grid location would then be much safer, if rather basic.”

He refused to comment on how he felt about establishing an intentional community around the idea of freedom in a country that has an extremely poor record on human rights.

Speaking to Malone and Yeadon was a distinctly unfun experience. Yeadon personally called me stupid, a liar, immoral, and threatened to sue if I called him an anti-vaxxer (which I am not doing: Logically has long made the case that the anti-COVID vaccination movement is very different from the traditional anti-vaxx movement). Malone opted for a different tactic, telling his 106k Twitter followers to go harass me personally unless I agreed to remove Logically’s fact check about him. Both of them accused me of not understanding the science.

Science has value as a knowledge-producing institution because lots of people check your work. Journalism has value for the same reason – I am accountable to my editors, my colleagues, and my audience. If I write something that’s untrue, it damages my career, and I can get sued. If a scientist does something wrong or falsifies data, it can waste funding, damage their reputation, even cause medical harm down the line.

People often talk about “believing the science,” but science has value precisely because you don’t have to just believe it. It’s verifiable, and someone’s already verified it. The knowledge it produces has value exactly because the experiments can be done and redone and checked by someone else. Science is not a set of facts that are only available to people with certain letters after their name: it’s an institution, and a process, and a community.

Nobody falls into a COVID-conspiracy hole because they’re wicked, cruel or corrupt. People usually fall in with the best of intentions: they’re worried about health, welfare, or government overreach. When COVID-truther activists say their only motivation is to tell the truth, I mostly believe them. But when a scientist says this, it makes them less credible, not more so. That’s because they know how hard it is to get at the truth, and they know what kind of support that requires from colleagues, mentors, and institutions – exactly the kind of support that Yeadon and Malone have decided they no longer need.

Scientists vs Science: Interviews with Mike Yeadon and Robert Malone - Logically ... ert-malone
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Re: Scientists vs Science: Interviews with Mike Yeadon and Robert Malone - Logically

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The History of how mRNA Vaccines were Discovered

Written no less by Robert Malone’s wife...
Jill Glasspool Malone, PhD

President at RW Malone MD, LLC: Analytics and Consultancy

The History of how mRNA Vaccines were Discovered - Published Jun 2, 2021
Jill Glasspool Malone, PhD
President at RW Malone MD, LLC: Analytics and Consultancy
Published Jun 2, 2021
“A lie can travel around the world and back again while the truth is lacing up its boots.”
—Mark Twain.
Robert Malone and I have been married for 42 years. Through ups and downs, good and bad, we have always been partners. Is this unique? No. Many people find a life partner; work and play together as a team. What maybe unique is our commitment to working together for the betterment of society. I am very lucky. Robert is brilliant. More than brilliant – he is someone that can take facts and use them to see into the future. Pattern recognition. This draws me like a butterfly to a flame. As a life partner, I am vigilant in my protection of Robert – both of his reputation, his health and as a person. It is with that sense of needing to help shield him that I write this letter. Our careers are as independent researchers; we don’t have the luxury of an academic institution. Our consulting business and our philanthropic research relies on our support of each other.
As a young scientist, Robert saw into the future. He saw the future of RNA as a drug in 1987. Early in 1988, he foresaw the future of the use of mRNA for vaccination. He did this in the worst of situations. As a graduate student, without support of his thesis advisor and being in an abusive work/student environment.
(If you want the whole, terrible story and history of the discoveries, I suggest you read my piece linked here).
But this letter is not about that period so much as now. But a little back history is needed.
Robert is the inventor of mRNA vaccination. The documentation is clear. In 1986, while at the Salk Institute/UC San Diego as a MD (Northwestern)/PhD (Salk/UCSD) student, he worked with RNA for his dissertation. Early on this included structure and modeling analysis, but it soon expanded beyond that. In 1987, he invented naked and lipid mediated RNA transfection. in-vitro (1987) and in-vivo (1988) lipid mediated mRNA transfection were developed at the Salk/UCSD. But the situation in lab was not healthy, when the harassment got to the point, where Robert literally was diagnosed with severe PTSD from abuse at the hands of his thesis advisor and institutional attorneys, he knew he had to abandon his PhD and go back to Northwestern to finish his medical degree. His thesis advisor was the now infamous Dr. Inder Verma. Dr. Verma’s behavior abusing women and employees is now legendary and documented in both the scientific and lay press.
Robert left the university knowing that what he had invented would change the world someday. That he has never doubted.
Patent disclosures and a patent application were written and eventually filed on 3/21/89 for these technologies by the Salk. This included not only RNA transfection (RNA as a drug), but also technologies to stabilize the RNA and to increase production. Once it became clear that he would be leaving the Salk/UCSD, he stopped filing disclosures. So, he held on to the idea about RNA vaccination until he left the Salk. I have journal entries and he spoke with others about these ideas, so there is some documentation regarding this timeline. This resulted in the paper:
Cationic liposome-mediated RNA transfection RW Malone, PL Felgner, IM Verma. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS) 86 (16), 6077-6081
When he left, he brought his research, reagents, DNA constructs, RNA constructs, and all the knowledge of these systems, including the use of the luciferase reporter gene assay for these technologies, which only he had, and ported them all into a small company called Vical. He didn’t really have any other option financially. It wasn’t ideal. But big promises were made by his supervisor about freedom to continue his research uninterrupted, which was critical to him. He knew that he had to go back and finish medical school, this was just an interim gig to support us and to prove that his discoveries worked, while I finished my BA. For Robert, the only thing that mattered was the science. Not the money, not the fame. It was about saving the world.
Long story short, as the only employee at Vical working in gene therapy, he sat down and disclosed all of his ideas for gene therapy and maybe more importantly, for mRNA vaccination almost as soon as he started at Vical. His supervisor at the time, Dr. Felgner, then over-signed the disclosures on top of Robert’s signature. Then, because Vical did not have vivisection facilities, a collaboration was set up with the University of Wisconsin to do the animal studies. Robert sent reagents, DNA, RNA and instructions to the researcher (Dr. Jon Wolff) there via Fedex and animals were injected. The rest is history.
Direct gene transfer into mouse muscle in vivo. Wolff JA, Malone RW, et al. Science. 1990;247(4949 Pt 1):1465-8.
Robert then wrote more patent disclosures, which included RNA vaccination and stabilization. Vical set up talks with the Salk to license Robert’s technology. These patents all have a priority date of 3/21/1989. Important because this is also the date that the Salk filed their patent. Showing that the Salk and Vical were working together in this. At that point, Robert was assured that Vical would license the Salk patent – as this was prior art.
As Robert’s supervisor soon took credit for much of his inventions, it was almost immediately clear that this short-term solution was just that. In August 1989, Robert went back to Northwestern to finish up medical school. He continued to support/consult for Vical without pay. He helped design the animal studies to prove that polynucleotide (DNA/RNA) worked in animal models. These experiments were conducted in 1989 and 1990 and there is documented data.
This seminal work, which occurred over five years (1986-1990). It is what has spawned the mRNA vaccination technologies now saving the world from COVID-19. There are papers and TEN issued patents, all with a priority date of 3/21/1989. THOSE PATENTS INCLUDE mRNA vaccination and there were vaccines studies to support those claims. The record is crystal clear.
So, Vical and the Univ of Wisconsin originally took credit. Then Vical sold the technology to Merck and then Merck took credit for the DNA vaccination. Vical and Merck didn’t have the expertise to make RNA after Robert left. Robert had pioneered tech to increase RNA production yield, but it came off of his bench, his protocols. No one had taken the time to learn the protocols from him while he was at Vical.
All this said, this discovery was so amazing, Robert’s passion for the work so far reaching, that ideas still pour out of him when discussing it. It is this enthusiasm and curiosity that make it so fun to be around Robert and what drives people to want to work with him. When working on a project, it is always about the project. Egos are left at the door.
The work at the Salk, at UCSD and at Vical was always about collaboration. Ideas, discussions, writings, editing, data, reagents, constructs – freely made, given and exchanged. That is when science is set free. When minds share – develop, expand, evolve ideas, hypothesizes. This is what drove Robert and I then and now. So many people worked on developing mRNA technologies and mRNA vaccines. Long after Robert left Vical, he still collaborated with people there. That is how good science works. It is what kept him tethered to Vical. Frankly, it is why he never pursued legal counsel in all of this. It is why he was consulted on data, why Dr. Gary Rhoades, who carried out the initial mRNA vaccination studies, but only put into patents, later worked with Robert in the 1990s. Science is one of the highest callings for man. There is always more to know, more to discover.
Fast forward 30 years…
So, imagine how disheartening it is over the course of the last year, to see others take credit for his work in the lay press. Then to see this article as the headliner by CNN yesterday was extremely upsetting:
“Now proven against coronavirus, mRNA can do so much more
…The story of mRNA vaccines dates back to the early 1990s, when Hungarian-born researcher Katalin Kariko of the University of Pennsylvania started testing mRNA technology as a form of gene therapy. The idea is similar whether scientists want to use the mRNA molecule to cure disease or prevent it; send instructions to the cells of the body to make something specific.”
This is very long article extoling the “discoveries” by Katalin Kariko, while at the University of Pennsylvania. Unfortunately, this is just another egregious but highly successful endeavor whereby Dr. Kariko is cited as having invented these technologies. Because after interviewing her, the reporter somehow came away believing that she invented mRNA vaccination! Oh, but now her fame grows, with this article strongly suggesting that she also invented RNA as a drug! Each article becomes more strident in these assertions. Google “mRNA vaccine inventor” and guess whose name comes up, with her own Wiki page and all. Wiki… yes, wiki is all about her also.
So, what does one do when someone’s work is not cited, when they are erased from history?
It turns out there is nothing one can do. When a national newspaper gets it wrong, over the course of months – they won’t correct it. Even if one goes to the editor, the magazine, the newspaper or the journalist. Even if one writes about it on social media, etc. Yes, I and to some extent, Robert did all that. I have written, begged, pleaded, informed – all to no avail. Basically, we hit a stone wall. Either journalists denied it (“well, I said “others” worked on these technologies”) or we were ignored. But with time, each article seems to get more and more exaggerated about the Dr. Kariko “discoveries.”
So, why am I writing this?
I guess at the very least to set the record straight with his friends.
This was and is Robert’s work, his passion. He is thrilled that all these technologies are working. He is thrilled for his part in that. He freely credits that other people have worked to develop this. But to have poured his heart and soul into this – decades of work and to have someone else get credit for his work in the national press is demoralizing and disheartening. To note, Dr. Kariko has responded to us and admitted that she did not make these discoveries, only “improvements” to the technology. Improvement, which many companies, like Curevac are not using. She says that she tells reporters that many, many people helped make these discoveries… Which reminds me of the quote:
“A truth that's told with bad intent
Beats all the lies you can invent.”
― William Blake, Auguries of Innocence
We literally have nothing to lose in this. Robert never received the money that Vical owed him. Heck, they never even admitted to owing him anything but a silver dollar. They never licensed his work from the Salk. The Salk dropped the patent applications without telling him. Vical threatened Robert with “cease and desist” letters, if he continued working in the field commercially or if he helped a commercial company with these technologies. We never were able to capture a single NIH or government grant for this work. This all happened thirty years ago, it is a terrible but old story. One that Robert likes to forget. It is not worth dredging up.
But now, we kind of have to.
So, I write this to our friends. Understand that Robert is grieving. He invented the field of mRNA vaccination and the use of RNA as a drug. But the credit goes to others. This is painful. It is the erasing of his life’s work.
As someone who has been supporting him in this endeavor for eons, I know what developing these technologies has brought us. It is the opposite of what one might think. The legacy of these technologies for us has been: abuse, poverty, angst and being disempowered.
To move on, Robert will most likely stop writing and speaking about it. This is his way. He is embarrassed to “make a fuss.”
I am not. I know that the American media has a “poster child,” in Dr. Kariko, who is actively being promoted to win a Nobel. There is a campaign going on. I know that Robert has no institutional support, no one to nominate him and no one did (nominations were due in Feb). So, Dr. Kariko, BioNTech and the University of PA do not have to worry. She has no competition from these quarters. She most likely has won. But her win must be cheapened by the fact that that she did not invent these technologies and the press has somehow been misled into believing that she did.
So in the end, I am afraid that the truth is…
“If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.”
― Walter Langer ... malone-phd
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....
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